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View Full Version : end of an era... Goodbye to GlassNotes


Mitcheal Veenstra
03-03-2017, 03:23 PM
Henry has thrown in the towel. If you don't own a copy of Glass Notes, try to snap one up on the secondary market before everyone is out of them. He's not printing any more of them. This, and then later Dudley's book was instrumental to me building my first hotshops.

Thanks Henry for revising it 4 times for us all. There are a whole lot of hotshops out there that you helped build.

Pete VanderLaan
03-03-2017, 04:40 PM
Oh, Henry did all right. The last edition was truly a work of some really good specialists. He may yet do an ebook on casting.

Otherwise. you're on the money. Buy not just the 4th edition, get the 3rd too. They are very different books and both are invaluable.
I love living near Dudley. What a total treat.

Mitcheal Veenstra
03-04-2017, 06:32 PM
I was talking to Henry in email yesterday after I posted that. He said that he is in the process of updating and converting it into an ebook as well.

I am glad I have my third and 4th editions of the book. I never had the earlier editions so I don't have them to compare.

Monte Becker
03-04-2017, 09:08 PM
I was taken aback by the cost of Henry's book - $170-$700 for a used copy on ebay and amazon. I asked a friend that sells books to for our local library, and she turned me onto www.bookfinder.com. The used book price was in the same range - but 2 vendors (textbooks.com and Barnes and Noble) are still selling new copies for ~$90. I snagged one!

My own hot shop days are still a dream for the future. The crazy thing is, even if my hot shop never happens, purchasing this book appears to be a great investment.

Mike McCain
03-05-2017, 12:27 AM
I got my second edition as a hand-me-down from my T.A. at SIU. I bought my third edition somewhere, sometime ago. I got my Fourth edition free! when I completed Henry's puzzle section of his website in record time:)
He signed it, 'Congrats Mike. Glass is Good.'
Not for sale. I treasure these.

I wonder what the $700 edition has written in it....

Pete VanderLaan
03-05-2017, 07:54 AM
.

I wonder what the $700 edition has written in it....
********
The real secret formula for Milton's Mud....

Trevor Pierce
03-06-2017, 08:23 AM
Well damn, I wonder how all our professors are going to take that news haha. That has been a regular purchase by us for beginning classes for some time now. I wonder if we can gain some rights somehow to make copies of it for our use in the school?? or maybe it's time I wrote a book.

Pete VanderLaan
03-06-2017, 08:39 AM
all of the pdf's exist. From time to time for my classes I reprint the sections I wrote of the 4th ed. I also print the sections that Frank Wooley and I had long conversations over but we have a specific intellectual ownership of that material. I don't know where you would wind up legally copying it. Henry did say to me that he was considering an ebook on the casting aspects at least and that's an area where he had a lot to say based on his own work.

Writing a book... hmmm... time consuming. You really need to know your stuff.

Trevor Pierce
03-06-2017, 08:54 AM
Writing a book... hmmm... time consuming. You really need to know your stuff.

I dont need to know jack..... the people I would interview/consult need to haha. But your right I have no time for that.

Pete VanderLaan
03-06-2017, 10:06 AM
I dont need to know jack..... the people I would interview/consult need to haha. But your right I have no time for that.
************
You certainly do need to know your stuff if you think you'll make it to the point of a peer review. The only serious error I recall from the book was in the third edition which conflated linear expansion factors from two dissimilar sources. As soon as the error was seen, it was removed from the final edition. I do not know of any other errors in the publications.

The real difficulty in my mind with doing an updated edition is that the ground under our feet has shifted so much. Since I wrote those notes on batch I no longer have any confidence in any supply chains at all. The middle men I used to deal with are gone. China will now sell you a container or five lbs of anything but you have to get it int the country legally. Lead is a mainstay in color and Lead is essentially gone. Chrome is essentially gone in a number of States. Just getting nitrates for fining out a basic clear is something I go through hoops over.
Further, the teaching has fundamentally shifted. We used to have these renaissance men running programs and they encouraged students to truly dig in to the material. That's gone and now schools have sculpture specialists who know jack shit about the furnaces. They leave that to underpaid techies who are not supposed to let the students turn the dials. The sections on building a furnace in Glassnotes are a vestigial organ. Most shops rely on buying really expensive tooling from a small cadre of specialists right down to the pipe coolers. Look out if you have to repair one of those furnaces if you don't know how it's built or what the materials are that went into it. How the **** did we ever come to accept that taking your pot out through the crown was a good design?

Casting is probably the one area which could be expanded on That, and fusing. Otherwise the quasi intellectual arguments seem to circle around which cullet is better and the decision is usually determined by price not quality at all.

Trevor Pierce
03-06-2017, 10:36 AM
Always killing my dreams Pete, haha. I'm not planning on writing a book, but I feel with my 10 years of experience that consulting with other professionals we could very well come up with a "new age" book. My point of not having to know jack, was me saying I don't have to be an all knowing source for this book, just as the knowledge from glass notes was not all one person.

Monte Becker
03-07-2017, 09:35 AM
So much for the $90 dream. Received email saying the book I ordered was out of stock. Went back to bookseller.com and see new copies priced $213.18 to $2,184.09. Used books are even more expensive: 228.82 to 2,252.28.

I say to Henry - Make another printing and make a fortune.

(Also let me know if you ever get the e-book together!)

Pete VanderLaan
03-07-2017, 10:03 AM
Henry would certainly appreciate the money I imagine but the moment the thing is reprinted, the price drops. The real problem in my mind is that updating the book is hard to do. A lot has changed in supplies specifically and those changes make much of the existing 4th ed obsolete in a way. My section would certainly fall into that type category.

I do think that Henry could sell it as an e book, making the PDF's available after you had paid a fee The pdf's could be available for a few days allowing the buyer to copy them at home. I have bought books using that technology.

But, to print the thing would not be profitable unless a lot of copies were printed and sales on that have progressively slowed down. There's a point where I think Henry would prefer simply playing golf. The market (again) will determine the sale price on the out of print books. People are not likely in my mind going to buy a $2,700.00 dollar copy and more than they would have bought Volf for 2K

I think Henry could turn over the reprint rights to Joe Pfeifer at Igneous to reprint it. Joe did a fine job with Volf and Helmer certainly.

Mike McCain
03-07-2017, 12:28 PM
Volf is a tough read. I keep it in case I ever get to experiment, because it's a thorough reference and cuz I'm a paper junky.
What does Helmer's book go into?

Trevor Pierce
03-07-2017, 01:20 PM
Henry would certainly appreciate the money I imagine but the moment the thing is reprinted, the price drops. The real problem in my mind is that updating the book is hard to do. A lot has changed in supplies specifically and those changes make much of the existing 4th ed obsolete in a way. My section would certainly fall into that type category.

I do think that Henry could sell it as an e book, making the PDF's available after you had paid a fee The pdf's could be available for a few days allowing the buyer to copy them at home. I have bought books using that technology.

But, to print the thing would not be profitable unless a lot of copies were printed and sales on that have progressively slowed down. There's a point where I think Henry would prefer simply playing golf. The market (again) will determine the sale price on the out of print books. People are not likely in my mind going to buy a $2,700.00 dollar copy and more than they would have bought Volf for 2K

I think Henry could turn over the reprint rights to Joe Pfeifer at Igneous to reprint it. Joe did a fine job with Volf and Helmer certainly.



Love the idea about pdf "renting". Seems like a good way to keep it alive and easily updated.

Pete VanderLaan
03-07-2017, 01:25 PM
Volf is easy compared to Weyl. I thought the Helmer to be around forty bucks. It is only recipes, no 'splainin' nuttin". That's true of Lyngaard as well. If indeed I ever finish writing mine, which has been on a back shelf about eight years now, the intent is to try to guide the user through what's happening, how to get furnace conditions right so they will happen, expected temperature ranges for different kinds of melts, how to adjust expansion, blah blah blah.

That book has never existed.

Pete VanderLaan
03-07-2017, 01:27 PM
Love the idea about pdf "renting". Seems like a good way to keep it alive and easily updated.
******
The downside is keeping people from getting the version and just copying it for others. That exists now I guess although copy places are more aggressive than they used to be about larceny.

Mike McCain
03-07-2017, 01:38 PM
The photos in Lyngaard's book is worth the price alone.

Pete VanderLaan
03-07-2017, 03:42 PM
You should track down the old Leerdam videos if you like the German factory stuff. We might actually have that in the videos section. Once you've seen that, tracking the one Richard Marquis made back around 1970 is pretty funny as well.

Jordan Kube
03-07-2017, 04:08 PM
There a lot of on demand printing services Henry could set it up with. People sign in, buy the book, and it's printed as ordered.

John Riepma
03-07-2017, 04:17 PM
I had just heard abut what Jordan mentioned when I asked for a certain book at Barnes and Noble. Apparently it's pretty common for out-of-print editions with limited demand.

Pete VanderLaan
03-07-2017, 05:02 PM
There a lot of on demand printing services Henry could set it up with. People sign in, buy the book, and it's printed as ordered.
*******
At this point, I don't know what would motivate Henry. He certainly follows this site and is free to comment. We don't see eye to eye on much at this stage. Joe has done a very credible job of getting books out that I thought would vanish and you can get them today because of his efforts. I would certainly like to see Glassnotes 4th continue because I thought it to be a wonderful resource and it clearly is the big mark that Henry left on the glass community. He may just need someone else to carry the ball at this point. I certainly understand that.

Greg Vriethoff
03-07-2017, 08:40 PM
Hard copy book sales are a massive rip-off at this time. It makes my blood boil when I think about how much my students are being taken for to get the textbook(s) I use in my classes. The campus bookstore routinely runs out/never has enough stock. Online sales take priority, so the response is "go buy or rent it online." The catch is that many of these students are dirt poor and rely on financial aid. They can only use financial aid in the campus bookstore. This isn't a coincidence.

I've made multiple copied handouts for students that can't get the book. Yeah, I'm breaking the law, but I've agreed to do a job; and I'm going to do it. They can fire me if they don't like it.

The PDFs that I have from Henry's book that I hand out to students were ones I asked for (and received) permission to use.

Dave Bross
03-10-2017, 11:01 AM
Here's a link to a number of reasonably priced editions:

http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/submitRare.cgi?author=Halem&title=glass

One of my side gigs is selling used books.
That site is what I use to estimate prices.
It's way more accurate than most.

Pete VanderLaan
03-10-2017, 02:30 PM
Great site Dave. I'm putting it in a permanent spot. I think the $2300 dollar one has some pictures of Henry with some babe in a compromising position in it.

Dave Hilty
03-18-2017, 08:55 PM
Ok, I give up... What would persuade someone to purchase the 4th edition for $2,300.00? Amazon has the same price on their listing?? I know it is valuable but 2 grand?

Pete VanderLaan
03-18-2017, 09:09 PM
That's the point were people hit the copier.

Rich Samuel
03-19-2017, 12:19 AM
You'll do a lot better on eBay. Still pricey, but not nearly that insane.

I read once that the crazy high prices you sometimes see on Amazon, eBay, and other vendor sites are connected to money laundering schemes. I've never quite understood how that works, so I'll leave it to others to determine if it makes any sense.

Mitcheal Veenstra
03-20-2017, 12:52 PM
I was able to snag a replacement copy of the 3rd edition fairly cheaply recently on Amazon.. My 4th edition is still sitting on the shelf safe, not getting loaned out. People are always listing some edition or the other at outrageous prices. Usually you can find a copy at a more reasonable price if you keep looking.

Or, ebay sometimes turns up a cheap price.. crazy world out there

Greg Vriethoff
03-31-2017, 03:07 PM
There's an original copy of this on Amazon now:

http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Glass-Information-Exchange/dp/B000IGAAV0#immersive-view_1449807624287

I checked to see if this seller also has a copy of Henry's book for sale. Apparently, they do not. I did find it curious that every title they carry that has the word "glass" in it is priced at $2,498.00 (regardless of the actual subject matter). The rest of their books seemed to be priced normally. I guess they're just fishing for suckers, or some weird algorithm thing that I don't understand.

If you want a copy of this book, buy it from Joe at Igneous:

http://www.bookwire.com/books/publisher?query=Igneous-Glassworks

Terry Crider
03-31-2017, 04:29 PM
If anyone's interested in Henry's 3rd or 4th edition --- take a look in the
classified ads.
Terry

Rich Samuel
03-31-2017, 05:01 PM
Greg, those insane prices are usually due to buggy, or badly programmed, pricing software. I bought a book a few years ago that I knew was being remaindered for a few dollars. Saw it listed on eBay for over a grand, so I contacted the seller to see if he was serious. He wrote back that he didn't set up his store quite right, and that the program he was using hiked the price each time the item was viewed. Have also heard that some vendors "park" their inventory when they go on vacation by putting up crazy prices they know no one will pay. I don't sell on eBay, so I don't know if that makes sense. Seems eBay should provide that feature.

Pete VanderLaan
03-31-2017, 06:52 PM
Hey! I'll sign my section for about a dollar fifty. You have to pay the postage and and handling of course. I think that comes to about 2,900.00 USD, more or less.

Greg Vriethoff
03-31-2017, 11:00 PM
Greg, those insane prices are usually due to buggy, or badly programmed, pricing software. I bought a book a few years ago that I knew was being remaindered for a few dollars. Saw it listed on eBay for over a grand, so I contacted the seller to see if he was serious. He wrote back that he didn't set up his store quite right, and that the program he was using hiked the price each time the item was viewed. Have also heard that some vendors "park" their inventory when they go on vacation by putting up crazy prices they know no one will pay. I don't sell on eBay, so I don't know if that makes sense. Seems eBay should provide that feature.

That makes sense Rich, thanks. Since it's Amazon I don't know either way. I still find it curious that it's only books with the word "glass" in the title. Probably a bug like you said.

I have done a fair amount of transactions on eBay. Mostly as a seller, so I'm kinda familiar with the rules (it's been a few years tho). Back in '09 I unwillingly had to sell my collection of rare records in order to pay for frivolous stuff like heat and food. Man, ya wanna talk about people paying stupid amounts of money for stupid things I got losta stories. Setting unrealistic prices like that for reasons like market testing, etc. are frowned upon. I think eBay still maintains the philosophy that you can only have things listed if you intend to sell. Of course there's always to spirit of the law, and then the letter of the law.