Black Tin Order [Archive] - CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk

Pete VanderLaan

03-07-2006, 06:07 PM

If interest is sufficient enough, I will place an order for black tin oxide at 15 dollars a lb. I will need to order at least 25 lbs to justify buying it since I currently have more than enough on hand for my own use. I don't really want to sell my personal stock SO, at the risk of making some people highly indignant at the obscene wartime profiteering I am engaging in and understanding that I am actually making money by buying this obscure chemical (that really is necessary in making copper ruby, silver opal and gold bearing glaasses) in volume are there people who would want to order black tin and have me ship it to them?

I need to sell 25 lbs worth

Steve Stadelman

03-07-2006, 08:06 PM

10 lb here.

George Tessman

03-07-2006, 08:58 PM

10 lbs here too

Kevin Bethea

03-07-2006, 09:17 PM

I am not sure if you are willing to split it up and ship but I could afford 5 pounds or so if we get someone else who needs the other 10. I know Pete's busy so I figured I would try to find a small quantity from the sources provided but if it's possible I would like a small amount. I understand if it's not worth the trouble and the need to set the minimum order of $100 or the 25 pounds that it is now to make it worth shipping. I haven't figured out how many tests I can squeeze out of 5 pounds so I might just have to save up and get it when I am ready to go for the gusto with a copper ruby if that's what I have to do. I guess we could split it amongst ourselves if that would work out. I read about the importance today in Dave's suggested reading and I would like to see if I can get a red one of these days so I need to get the right stuff.
I also found some silver nitrate today next to our hot marver. I rolled a hot ball in a pile of stuff one time for an advanced student before I brought it to him and he told me it was silver. I think it's what I need for some of my tests. It reduced like crazy in the glory hole but I didn't read the label on the jar until today.
kevin bethea

cool george beat me to the post button so I hope that works out.

Steve Stadelman

03-07-2006, 09:27 PM

Check Henry's book Kevin. Making your own silver nitrate is easy and cheap.

Pete VanderLaan

03-07-2006, 09:38 PM

Sadly, Henry's book does not cover making silver nitrate. I am the one who has described, in lurid detail how to do that and I suspect it can be found in our archives. For old timers, you may recall that Henry heartily disapproved of my process. Those than can, do. Those that can't, teach.

Henry's book does describe how to make silver chloride, bromide or iodide and it is good information.

Anyone who was in my color class got to see how reliable using ball jars was in mixing up a silver nitrate soultion in warm water.I certainly learned to use thick handblown glass after that one. That particular accident destroyed a good pair of jeans, my shoes and the floor is still stained. heavily. All in all, my demos of cheap chemical tricks did not go very well this time. I did finally convert the gold chloride solution to gold sands after everyone left. It simply involved adding the gold chloride solution to the sands and mixing it like bread dough. I used 100 grams of silica for every pennyweight of gold we all disolved in the aqua regia.

My thirteen year old is however well on his way making rocket fuel and flash powder. He is currently quite tweaked that Homeland security has stopped the sale and importation of German Aluminum Powder. He at least still has 8 ounces of the stuff. That goes a long way. His immediate goal is learning to blow stumps out of the ground when we convert forest to pasture. I personally think buying a bulldozer is the key to happiness here but he assures me I'm wrong..

Steve Stadelman

03-07-2006, 10:14 PM

Oops.

Kevin Bethea

03-08-2006, 12:30 AM

Henry tells us how to convert silver nitrate into silver salts. I knew I read something about silver nitrate a while back but not really what I wanted. It sounds like silver salts could be a fun effect though. I remember hearing it was easy to make silver nitrate so I guess I had read Pete's method in the archives before. I'll have to search that up. Henry also gives a nice history of silver nitrate and he answered a question about the veiling they did in the 70's that I have been curious about for a long time. Thanks Henry. I don't think I would want to gather over it though since that stuff sounds like it contaminates everything. I know it got on the paper on the bench when that other student was trailing it on the other day because you could see it all over it. Fritz has visited our school fairly recently but I wasn't here then. I wish I had been so I could have met him. He could have shown me exactly how they did it all back then. Now I want to figure out the lava glass.
Kevin Bethea

Pete VanderLaan

03-08-2006, 09:57 AM

lava glass is easy. Throw Manganese dioxide into a pot of clear. Watch it foam like crazy. Gather the foam. You do need two furnaces to do this, one for a real clear and one for the foamy stuff. If you just gather foamy glass, it frequently leaks.

Virginia Slawson

03-08-2006, 11:51 AM

10 lbs here, too.

Virginia Slawson

03-08-2006, 12:01 PM

My thirteen year old is however well on his way making rocket fuel and flash powder. ...His immediate goal is learning to blow stumps out of the ground when we convert forest to pasture. I personally think buying a bulldozer is the key to happiness here but he assures me I'm wrong..

Ed just commented: "But it's so much more fun to blow them up."

I think we're going to have to keep an eye on those two. Ed will find himself meanderiing over to NH on the bike on a nice day... and the next thing you know, they'll have the tree farm leveled.

Pete VanderLaan

03-08-2006, 01:14 PM

my inner thirteen year old assures me that both Ed and Bren are right... We'll call him when it's time

Dave Hilty

03-09-2006, 07:36 AM

I'm in for 10#.

Before you blow all the stumps up save out some wallnut, maple or oak for some interesting carved or turned burl sculptures.

Scott Dunahee

03-09-2006, 08:23 AM

yeah, since you have the Deer, it shouldn't be much work to dig down 10 feet to get at the taproots of the old trees. This is some of the prettiest wood in the world. I would expect getting it milled and dried is easy peasy out there. Consider it boutique wood. I know gunwrights love the stuff. Pretty and DENSE wood.

BSD

Pete VanderLaan

03-09-2006, 08:41 AM

My Deere is not anywhere near big enough to dig it out but I do have plans to buy a backhoe so don't tell MaryBeth. If so, I'll save the stumps on the Oak at least. I don't think I will remove any of the maple. The other stuff is Birch, Hemlock and of course White Pine for the lumber mill. I wish we had walnut but that doesn't grow in New Hampshire. We do have some wild cherry but I wouldn't cut them either.

Jeff Wright

03-09-2006, 09:01 AM

Pete,

Sounds like a nice stand of trees. I live in SE Michigan on a heavily wooded "old growth" 2 acre lot. I have 70 foot Oak trees within 3 feet of the house. One of them has a diameter of over five feet. Beautiful, although the leaves are an issue. I contribute to global warming by burning them!

Anyway, we have, or should I say had, fifty or so Ash trees. These were nice, very tall 60-70 feet on many of them, but the Emerald Ash Borer got them all. Two winters ago they were fine and the next summer most were dead and now they are all dead.

I had 18 removed, most chipped up, but I have enough firewood to keep the neighborhood warm for years. Of course the neighbors have the same problem. The law says you can't move them across county lines, use the wood for furniture, etc. Which is stupid since the borer lives just under the bark and not much below the wood surface.

Living in a wooded area is a lot of fun, and a lot of work. I've now got to figure out what else to plant to "reforest" my little neck of the woods. The oaks, maples, hickory, and wild cherry need some company.

Steve Stadelman

03-09-2006, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan
but I do have plans to buy a backhoe so don't tell MaryBeth

But Backhoe Camp is MaryBeths Idea!

Pete VanderLaan

03-09-2006, 10:10 AM

Marybeth wants to do that as a business. She doesn't want me enjoying myself! In backhoe camp it was envisioned that I would do the maintenance, not operate the equipment.

Trees. Trees are amazing. My father is law sequestered so many anticipating the unkind end of life and he was right to do so. Currently, I am harvesting timber to support my mother in law who is in the final stages of life and the trees just give and give. Ray, who passed away two years back knew what he was doing. Soon, I will let the trees rest for 10 years. My only plan is a pasture of about 10 additional acres for the ( literally) dog and pony show. The forest is like a cathedral. My son and I will bring in firewood- about 16 cords a New Hampshire winter only using dead and down trees in the forest. We never get much more than 100 feet off of the logging trail to get what we need. Bren loves the saws and the hydraulic splitter. I plan to train my big Fresian colt to draft for logs- smaller ones around eight inch which is a dying art but so much easier on the trees themselves.It's such an XY Chromosome act.

Steve says that he gives me three years to be back blowing glass. Maybe. I certainly plan to stay with equipment, crucibles and occasional teaching.

I will leave this thread up about another week and then I will order the tin.

Ed Pennebaker

03-09-2006, 10:40 AM

Put me down for 10 pounds also if it's not too late.

Dave Bross

03-09-2006, 11:43 AM

I might as well pick up ten pounds while the getting is good:

Put me in for ten pounds.

And now, getting back off topic...

The hell with owning backhoes, rent 'em!

Those puppies are high maintenance.

Also check out the Terramite. It looks like a big lawnmower with a backhoe and bucket but it is a bad ass little piece of machinery. Most rental places rent them cheap. They're so small you can get them into amazing places.

Scott Dunahee

03-09-2006, 01:01 PM

best put me down for 7 pounds.

Thanks

BSD

Ture Gustafson

03-09-2006, 05:01 PM

I'll take 20lbs.
Thanks,

Ture

Dave Hilty

03-09-2006, 05:30 PM

Trees?

We bought our place (7 acres) from an older couple in '88. About 50 miles north of Detroit. The former owner was President of the Michigan Nutgrowers Association (his wife called him the chief nut). The home was the orchardkeepers at the center of what was a 65 acre orchard. The chief nut was big on replacing every fruit tree that expired with nut trees, firs & pines of every conceivable variety. We don't have the size and majesty of Jeff's old growth stand with a couple of exceptions but we have an Arborists dream when it comes to variety.

Two (husband & wife I assume) American Chestnuts planted from blight resistant (supposedly) stock from U. of M. They are really getting huge and full. Shellbark hickory, Butternut, Black Walnut, Chinese Chestnut, English Walnut, Horse chestnut (Buckeye) and on and on. The antique variety fruit trees are special: Graham Spy, Northern Spy, Winter Banana, Ontario Spy, Old fashioned delicious etc. WE have a couple Concolor firs that are pushing 50'.

Jeff Wright

03-09-2006, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Dave Hilty
WE have a couple Concolor firs that are pushing 50'.

Not to continue to hijack the Black Tin thread, but...Every year we get a 10-12ft Concolor Fir Christmas tree. Probably not many people know but Concolor is a really weird thing. Beautifully shaped tree but the needles/sap/etc. have a citrus scent, not pine as you would expect. I just love people's reaction when I have them crush a few needles and smell. Just like oranges. A great Michigan tree. Dave, be thankful you have a good variety of trees on your property.

Steve Stadelman

03-10-2006, 12:23 AM

O.K. I have four acres. Three are the Oregon state plant (himalayan blackberry) with a strong sprinkling of scotch broom.

Sure, all you guys have stately, pretty trees with esthetic and commercial value. But my stuff will still be here after the Apocalypse!

Pete VanderLaan

03-10-2006, 08:21 AM

Assuming we let Kevin get 5 lbs, I'm at 92 lbs so far. I am always amazed at which threads morph into something totally different and which don't. I only want to see now how David re-hijacks it into a conspiracy study of deforestation done by trappist monks.

Kevin Bethea

03-10-2006, 09:37 AM

If the minimum you want to deal with is $100 worth that's fine with me and I'll bump it up to 7 pounds which by my math is $105. I read it as needing to equal 25 pounds and thought 5 would keep the math simple but I am cool with the minimum. I am trying to keep up, I swear. I guess "at least" should have given me a clue. oops. Just let me know about shipping costs and where to send some money to and it'll be fine. Thanks a lot for dealing with this Pete. From what I have read it sounds like it's necessary to me for what I want to eventually be able to do. I enjoyed the melting temps in the other thread too. I guess the chrome stuff we had would never melt just like you had already told me. I saw my teacher yesterday and I am all clear for test melts. He wants to cover safety stuff so I won't kill everyone in the studio but that's a good thing. speaking of trees and killing everybody, are there any risks to handling cherry trees and cyanide. He was saying he wanted to have students carve blocks and he would pay us but it seems to me that if we didn't know what we're doing we have a risk of creating cyanide soup in the block bucket. Maybe that only lives in the pit but I figured you guys might know. I have no idea why I thought about it but there has to be something more to just cutting down the tree I would think. I suggested apple tree or some other fruit tree to be safe but since we are on trees and black tin it seems like the right time to ask. Thanks for getting the order together for us Pete. Looks like 94 pounds and we're all happy. Well not all of us, the trappist monks are probably still pissed.
kevin bethea

Pete VanderLaan

03-10-2006, 09:43 AM

WHile I am a big fan of do-it yourselfing and I made my own blocks ages ago, the blocks available today are really cheap for what they are and are lightweight to boot. I think you are better off just buying them unless you have a lathe and know how to use it. Carving by hand is slow going.. I would add a touch of clorox to your block bucket.

Trees and blocks... where next, The Dubai Port deal ?

Douglas Terry

03-10-2006, 12:26 PM

If I can get on the list I'll take 10 lb. Doug Terry

Steve Stadelman

03-10-2006, 12:51 PM

Kevin, I think you would probably have to consume about 20lb of cherry pits to poisen yourself.

And your grandma's furniture hasn't killed anyone yet, other than going around the landing from the third to the fourth floor.

We used to carry Amyl Nitrate for cyanide poisening on the fire apparatus but after something like eight years we never used it even once on a population base of over 400.000 people it got left off of the drug list.

So if you do carve those blocks keep bactine and bandages for the nicks and cuts.

Pete VanderLaan

03-10-2006, 05:28 PM

I recall Amyl Nitrate being something of a recreational drug back in high school.

Steve Stadelman

03-10-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan
I recall Amyl Nitrate being something of a recreational drug back in high school.

You had a problem with abusing peach pits?

Edward Dluzen

03-10-2006, 08:19 PM

Pete,

Put me down for 20 lbs.....

ed

Pete VanderLaan

03-10-2006, 08:28 PM

OK 20 it is. No it came in little syretts that you could inhale. Great for pre track workouts.

Pete VanderLaan

03-12-2006, 11:20 AM

With my sources outside craftweb, I'm at 142 lbs. I have to order in fifty pound increments as it turns out so I will probably cut this off by wednesday for the additional eight pounds and order 150lbs of it. I will start to e mail people for credit card stuff.

Ben Rosenfield

03-12-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan
I only want to see now how David re-hijacks it into a conspiracy study of deforestation done by trappist monks. Deforestation? Not likely. The monks are too busy being quiet, not having sex, and making the best beer on earth. Love their beer. Love it.

Pete VanderLaan

03-12-2006, 01:12 PM

Read "God is My Broker."

Brian Blanthorn

03-14-2006, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by Dave Hilty
Trees?

I have over the past few years been grafting plums on 4 new plum trees

So far I got about 6- 10 grafts on each getting about 25% susess rate

I hope 2 get about 40 or so different varities

Which should give me plums for about 3-5 months

Some like Angelina Burdette will dry on the tree

There r some weird names my fave is Reine Claude de Bavis this was develped by a Frech guy who called it after his queen Claude

When Thomas Gage brought the Rein Claude plum over 2 the UK it became called a gage

In the UK we got something like 300 plums

The from my local nursary I can buy the twigs ( scions ) for a few £ then graft on2 my plum stock

I got an espalier mulberry, with 2 fruits last year which on a 4 yr old tree is amasing

Do birds like this fruit do I need 2 move it in2 my fruit cage ??

+ few cob nut trees one being a lovely bronze leaf and a early flowering almond

Oh lots of blueberrys to

Why is this tree thread turned in2 black tin chat

Is this some kind of secret tree food ????

I have 2 say I dont like the deforestation chat

Should we not B planting more trees 2 compensate 4 all our energy were using ?????

Ordered much of my Saw materials recently

Yippeeeeeee

Saw nervana here I come

Brian

Pete VanderLaan

03-14-2006, 09:40 AM

It's a first:

Brian has just posted a thread that hijacked itself.

Dave Hilty

03-14-2006, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Brian Blanthorn

I got an espalier mulberry, with 2 fruits last year which on a 4 yr old tree is amasing

Brian

I got to Ireland in Sept. of '04. Wonderful trees & amazing espalier apples. Bay shrubs etc. They are making an industry of growing pulp pines that due to the mild winters produce in 5 years what our pine forests take 10 years to do.

Rollin Karg

03-15-2006, 01:13 PM

Black Tin to pulp wood, dam I love it!!!

Dave Hilty

03-15-2006, 02:35 PM

Forgive my A.D.D. issues.

Brent Hickenbotham

03-15-2006, 11:43 PM

I would like 10# if its not too late.

Douglas Terry

03-21-2006, 02:34 AM

Did I miss how to pay for the tin? Doug Terry

Pete VanderLaan

03-21-2006, 09:44 AM

No one has missed anything. I'm stilll collating orders from studios that don't frequent internet information boards. I expect to get pricing and order the stuff mid week.

Brent Hickenbotham

03-21-2006, 12:47 PM

Pete I don't know if you got my e-mail but I will be passing through and was wondering if I could pick some up to save you packing and shipping another order.

Pete VanderLaan

03-21-2006, 04:55 PM

No, I don't want to part with any of my existing stock. The supplier has tin that is slightly damp and I find it irritating. You will have to open your supply up when you get it and let it dry. Having done this once already, I don't want to do it again. The order is getting up to about 200 lbs, and not a pound of it is mine. I have about 30 lbs at this point but it's nice and dry. It's not a big problem but I don't want to have to deal with it.

Brent Hickenbotham

03-21-2006, 05:09 PM

thats cool thought I would ask since I was going to be in town anyway. Is there anything that you would part with that might be hard to come by?

Pete VanderLaan

03-21-2006, 07:58 PM

I have recycle cryolite at 75 cents a lb. It is curiously hard to come by in small quantities these days. You need about 6-7 % by weight to make any opaque glasses. Lately I have only been able to get it easily by the ton. The recycle is a grey cryolite I got from Reynolds Aluminum and makes a somewhat denser opaque than the german synthetic which I used in the class. Nice stuff but I don't want to haul it across the country. I have about seven hundred pounds. It'sa great price. I paid more like a buck per lb for it after shipping.