holland refractory help

[Franklin Sankar]

Can someone who lives in holland please find out/ask someone how to mix ............Gouda Adhesiet 180P refractory cement for me. The bag says its made in Holland but has no mixing instr. I am not sure about the sheet that was given to me by my friend. It does not work, its too much water.
Thanks
Franklin

[Henry Halem]

While I don't live in Holland I can offer the following. Most, if not all refractory cements take a lot less water than one might assume. The amount of water can be judged when mixing if you can take a baseball size handful and throw it in the air and not have it fall apart. Now I do not mean one wings it across the room but just up and down. What does the sheet say? It should have the water in % by weight and that would be metric weight if it comes from the Netherlands.

[Jordan Kube]

Ask the manufacturer info@goudavuurvast.nl

[Franklin Sankar]

Thanks Henry and Jordan. Unfortunately the Mfg. does not respond but I will try again.
The sheet I have is for 180P which says that it is a phosphate based bonded air setting mortar on base of corundum. That sounds good. No water is shown on the sheet but the person I got it from says....... 100kg : 20 - 25 litres of water.
That may not be correct because I see it is the same as for 180 sheet which does not mention phosphate bonded. Whatever that means.

Franklin

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally posted by Henry Halem
While I don't live in Holland I can offer the following. Most, if not all refractory cements take a lot less water than one might assume. The amount of water can be judged when mixing if you can take a baseball size handful and throw it in the air and not have it fall apart. Now I do not mean one wings it across the room but just up and down. What does the sheet say? It should have the water in % by weight and that would be metric weight if it comes from the Netherlands.
***************

Now my best memory of this is that the ball in the air stuff applied to castables, not mortars. I like a mortar to be trowelable to a fairly thin layer, put on the face of each brick to be joined and then to squish out slightly under pressure. Also, dip your bricks in water before mortaring. I think a circumstance like the one Henry describes would be really stiff. I also think that you don't want oo much water or it loses strength.

[Henry Halem]

Sorry about that. I didn't read it close enough. I read cement as castable. Mortars can be watered down to mayonaise consistancy. That's the consistancy we use the A.P. Green mortar at when building IFB glory holes. Pete's correct, wet your IFB prior to mortaring. By the way how are you using this cement (mortar?) and what are you using it on?

[Franklin Sankar]

I wrote what I saw on the bag and interpreted it like Henry. ie I am using it like a cement to cast a burner head. To make matters worst someone helped by directing my question to Gouda who replied like this....
Inge van Vliet <Inge.vanVliet@goudavuurvast.nl> wrote:
Dear sir,

Adhesiet N180P is wet mortar and is already mixed.

Kind regards,
Inge van Vliet

I am sure I have a bag of very white powder, its dry and does get hard when I wet it. No I am not going to taste it.
I just checked again on the bag and it says Adhesiet 180P but the sheet says Adhesiet N180P . I guess the N makes a difference. I will let Inge know.
Sorry about the mistake.

Franklin

[Jordan Kube]

Yeah, I wouldn't make a burner head out of it.

[Franklin Sankar]

Ok I must say that Mr. Inge van Vliet of Gouda was very helpful and I got the msds and the mix sheet this time. Now that I have the correct information it makes sense.
Franklin

[Kraig Richard]

How long has this stuff been out of the Netherlands? Vintage can be relative on older cements working properties. Old rammable is nicely "aged rammable" while vintage castable might be moisture damaged and still be powdery. It could still set up great. It could have most of its original stuff or it might not. If it's old and you have to use it (ie you have a lot of it) you might want to test it in some low fail applications like a glory hole floor. I wouldnt be afraid of casting a burnerhead out of it that was intended to sidefire and not topfire.

[Franklin Sankar]

I said use within 1 year and the year is just up. But I heed the warning. That could be a sight if it blows. Burner head is for the glory hole.
Franklin