Diamond Pads

[Wes Hunting]

Ive been looking for a source for 36" diamond pads for a lap wheel I am building but have had no luck finding a company that makes them that size. Any of you kind folks know of a company that makes any pads that dia. or larger I would be willing to shell out the bucks to have them made for me if they are willing to make them custom. 60 or 80 abrasive size is all I need.

Rollin, if you read this thanks for the idea you posted a while back on cutting my own steel plates for a lap wheel with a plasma cutter. I took my 1 and a half inch wheel and just cut out a 1/4 inch plate the same size and placed it on top. No more spending big bucks to have the
thing milled down after it starts getting dished out, and I still have the heavy fly wheel thing working for me!:thumb:

[Peter Bowles]

Hi Wes

Its a bit of jigging between here, there and somewhere else, but if you cant find anything local you could try Jon Firth of Unicorn Glass Studio here in Australia.

He has all sorts of stuff made to order and might be able to help you.

You can contact him at jon@unicornglass.com


Pete

[Hugh Jenkins]

Steve Werth of ASW Diamond might do it. I haven't had contact with him for a while. If you can't get the number from his web site, I'll look for it. The 40 plate I got from him was thicker and had a much denser diamond loading than any I had seen before.

[Drew Fritts]

ASW Diamond Products
PO Box 116
Gorman, CA 93243
(661) 724-8881
(800) 825-2792 Toll Free
(661) 724-8882 Fax
http://www.aswdiamond.com/ASW/default.asp

Drew <+><

[Michael Mortara]

I have a grinder built by ASW, which is great. The plates on the other hand we have had nothing but problems with, 24" in the 80 grit lasted about two weeks and the plates bounced, which has never happened with the HIS plates. I tried to get an exchange for one plate, he sent me the damaged one back and said it was a new one (I marked it). I suspect these are the China plates.
Hot Island Glass got a stack of them from ASW and has had the same result.

[Allan Gott]

Historically the same experience here. Bought an 18" set from ASW 10 years ago, the 80 grit had the magnetic backing applied upside down :confused: :confused: and it wouldn't stick to the wheel.

All inquiries were met with a "tough bananas - fix it yourself" attitude, when they finally got around to replying.

[Kenny Pieper]

I'm sorry to hear that some have had trouble with Steves workmanship I have had nothing but good experences with Steve Werth of ASW Diamond

[Greg Vriethoff]

As someone that has experience with both ASW and HIS pads I would have to go with HIS.

The important thing to keep in mind is what you are using this equipment for. If you are doing lite stuff like flattening the bottoms of your vessels or beveling sheet, just about any pad will suffice. But I can say from experience that if you are bringing large facets to a high polish you should go with the better quality.

I don't wish to endorse any products, but the proof is in the pudding. We have a ASW 24" at the school that I did my grad work at, but would buy HIS pads instead. The machine is good. Steve did a good job refurbishing our machine last year for a reasonable price (he wouldn't sell us a new one without the pads for a reduced price though- tells me he doesn't want people using the competition ;) )

[Pete VanderLaan]

I just bought a grouping of diamond pads with Josh Simpson direct from China. The 30 inch sintered 100 grit pad was 300 dollars. That is fine for stock removal but I would never use diamonds to do any serious polishing. I immediately go to a 27.5 micron optically graded aluminum oxide powder and then to pumice on a rodel pad ( but the new czech wheel is nice!) and then to a felt pad from Boston Felt via universal photonics. That, while messy will give you a polish decent enough for a museum.

Diamonds yield great surfaces with one long scratch, every time. Then you have to polish through the scratch, every time. Why bother? Do it right.

[Greg Vriethoff]

Yes, doing it right is what I want to hear about now that I've left the student situation and am moving into the "real world."

The "always having scratches" thing is true. I've gotten to a point where I can minimize this, but it's always there and I had to resign myself to accepting this for my graduate work.

Diamonds are overrated both as a gemstone, and as a tool for working glass.
If I had a choice I would set my shop up with no diamond products and do it all "old school."

Any advise is appreciated. Thanks

[Pete VanderLaan]

Well, the rough in with diamonds is OK. I still prefer a 60 grit silicon carbide but it's profoundly messy and noisey. It also wears out the roughing wheel. I think you are better off getting into a buying club and bringing the pads in from China. The homeland versions are very pricey.

After the rough, asuming it's a 100-120 grit, which lasts longer than the sixty grit for some reason, go to a belt sander and clean up the edge with a chamfer. You have to Chamfer it or it will never come up scratch free. Then go to a 27.5 micron optically graded aluminum oxide. This stuff can be recyled if you screen it.

When that is clear, either a reciprolap on 15T microgrit or a pumice wheel with 0 3/4 pumice from Navaho, sold by Salem or Somaca. The pumice wheel is a hard decision now. Either the Rodel pad or the Czech wheel are good and the Czech wheel is a lot cheaper. If you are obsessive compulsive, then switch to a "0" grade from canetto Lipari. Then a GOOD QUALITY cerium. I prefer superox PMD which is very pricey but very aggressive. I use it with a Boston Felt 1/2 inch pad sold by Universal Photonics.

The other driving issue is the glass itself. Most American batch boutique glasses and cullets just don't have enough potassium in them to show a really good luster. Fact of Life. The stuff from Gabbert is the worst.

[Greg Vriethoff]

Thanks for all the good info. A lot to digest.

Since moving to Southern California four years ago I've seen only one shop with a decent coldworking setup. Most people only have a diamond lap and maybe a belt sander. Nobody even knows what a Rociprolap is. The last time I saw a pumice wheel was at Pilchuck.

Most people here think of coldworking as a necessary but undesireable chore rather than an artform in and of itself.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Hugh and I have talked about this and he thought it was really an old school attitude. I firmly believe that the bottom of your piece should be finished professionally. This takes tools and skills and time. I love polished glass. Badly polished glass reminds me of badly made cane work. Better to have not done it at all.

Reciprolaps may well be a tool from a specific time period that won't come around again. Jack Rose used to make them and the trays would wear out pretty quickly. When Jack retired, he sold the company and the new guys were asking about 1300 dollars for a tray, or about twice what the whole machine sold for when Jack had the company. I still have about 10 servicable trays for 15T microgrit. When they wear out, I will not replace them, at least not in this country.

[Hugh Jenkins]

Pete knows I agree on bottom finishing. Where we do not agree is over diamond. I have not had the "rogue" diamond syndrome. I used to be all loose grit at school, but am glad to be diamond throughout the grinding stages now. One machine, changing pads, no buckets of grit to wash, settle out, etc. I hand rub on plate glass with 30micron grit for non polished bottoms. I am totally traditional ("old school" if you will) on the polishing stages and swear by carpet as the final cerium wheel. I just wish I had a new set of hands that would hold up for longer periods. It is technical, demanding work.

[Pete VanderLaan]

I suppose that a large amount of my issue with diamonds is the size of the surfaces I gring. Many are 6x6 inch and some a good deal larger. On my cut forms, there are always fine edges and the diamonds do not work well with them. They require very delicate microgrit work. I do have to totally agree that the mess from SiC is awful and I do like having the 100 grit diamonds in the basement with only water as the gunk I have to deal with. Even so, I really like grit based surfaces best.

Carpet? man.... jeez... Natural, orlon?, killim? what.

[Scott Novota]

He mounts one of William Shattners used Toupes!


It is by and large the best way to get a spit shine polish on a piece....hands down.



Scott.
.

[Greg Vriethoff]

I heard about this carpet thing recently. I assume it is a low pile type. Are there certain brands or fibers that work better than others? (Seriously)

[Hugh Jenkins]

Short pile, high wear rating. In the sizes we need, it isn't even considered a saleable remnant. When we had our house done several years ago, I got a life time supply from the throw outs.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Have you ever tried it in a lap?

[Hugh Jenkins]

We use carpet on a vertical faceplate 12" in diameter. I don't see why it would not work horizontal. Easier to have a drip water system that way I'm sure. I'm not sure, but I think I saw carpet used first at Jim Nadal's in '78.

The faceplate is flat but I glued a 1/4" layer of black foam rubber on and sanded it to a very slight curve. Then mounted the carpet with contact cement. It has a slightly soft feel and does not grab at the edges of the piece.

[Kenny Pieper]

I've used rugs in recripolaps with great results. Much nore cheaper

[R. Scott Johnson]

dont the edges round up with such a soft pad?

[Hugh Jenkins]

One reason for the slight curvature in the foam layer is that the center of the surface you are polishing gets more contact with the polishing wheel, and there is a little less pressure at the edges. The major cause for rounded edges in polishing is the amount of time and pressure used. Excellent preparation before going on the cerium wheel means it is a fairly short process.