Green Hot Shop?

[Bob Dupee]

I know its an oxymoron, but we are attempting to build a "green" (meaning LEED Certified) artisan's centre that would use all of the recycled heat from the hot shop to heat the rest of the complex. My approach would be to capture the heat through a manifold/radiator system which would supply a heat pump with heated liquid. The heat pump would keep it to the right temperature if it was too cold (I do live in Canada) and then do the cooling in the summer months..great things, those heat pumps! Anyhow, does anyone have any experience with recycling heat from the hot shop that is working??

Also, howabout shop layout plans? We are looking at 3 benches, are there any great floor plans around that work better than others? It will be mainly a teaching facility, so any special considerations we need to think about? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Henry Halem]

You might want to contact the Pittsburgh Glass Center as their studio is "Green" and according to them is successful.

[Brody Shaw]

or so they state!

[Hugh Jenkins]

For a teaching shop, build a center of the floor glory hole with four ports, recuperate and you'll have the most fuel efficient way to work with more than two at a time. For demos, guests, larger work, have a rollaway larger glory or one that sits under the hood like normal. We ran a teaching shop with eight benches on two burners from '80 on with two such units. Each generation lasted about a decade and the current program has its third generation going now. Individual glory holes are big energy users.
See Steve Adams notes in the current recuperation thread about using water heat exchangers to capture vented heat. Then you can use it for anything.

[Jeff Hoover]

My instructor has looked into the possibility of locating a studio on the site of a landfill, as methane is supposed to be readily available as a result of trash decomposition.

Anyone ever hear of a hot shop going this route?

[Tom Fuhrman]

There's one in Penland/Spruce Pine N.C. They are also trying to get one established in southern Indiana just north of Louisville. There was some one at GAS in June last year that had all the info on this. Biggest hump is getting the fed's to let you use the site, since most are designated for more commercial/industrial us.

[Brody Shaw]

or garbage co. has/owns rights to the gas to sell/use burn however they they feel fit...

trash glass would be a good name....why not go the full 'recycle' route and use recycled glass......

[Steve Stadelman]

Charlie Correll did the one near Ashville I believe. I know he did one because we talked about it extensively at G,A,S, last summer. Some of the obstacles he dealt with were delivery pressure, low therm value in the delivered gas, and tramp water and dirt.

[Marc Leva]

I know there is one in eastern Tennessee. Claire and Anthony have their hotshop there.

[Laura Doerger-Roberts]

It's in North Carolina and its called EnergyXchange. EnergyXchange (http://www.energyxchange.org)

[Kenny Pieper]

I've been evolved with the Energyxchange project from its inception. Running on methane has its issues but it will work with a little extra T.L.C. It takes a bit of management of the wells to get consistent methane%. Here we usually run around 45%. There is a bit of junk that can cause problems with stuff like shut off valves, proportionater valves and with this low % of methane you have to have forced air.
If anybody is looking for a great glass blowing residency there are openings coming up in September. Check out the web sight www.energyxchange.org. Its a great opportunity for some one to make the next step toward having their own glass business

[Hugh Jenkins]

There are also plans for a shops in Santa Fe area and the Ohio Valley Creative Energy project that are working with landfill sites. There will be details presented on how the agreements and technical issues are working out at GAS in the alternative fuel panel. Come and find out what is happening. I'll also talk about up to date improvements in recuperators and progress with the vegetable oil.

There will be a "Bioglass" website up sometime soon for links and discussion on these topics. We are conferencing regularly to get ready. Eddie Bernard is very much a part of this and I hope will become an expert on equipment installations for this kind of application.

Sewage gas and feed lot waste gas are other areas that are gaining attention in spite of the current "leaderships" denial of greenhouse gas problems. i don't know what the current proposed budget holds for these areas, but the EPA rules are getting tougher.

One thing that was far sighted in the NC Energy Exchange project was that Charlie's recuperators were put in place even when the energy was "free" (well, after a few hundred thousand in well heads and collecting grid were installed). They share with a greenhouse, an aquaculture project and a pottery. A glass shop could have used it all probably. It is a great model in resource sharing. As remote as it is, there was little else to do with the gas except burn it off. Methane is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2 and has to be burned if not used in any other way. There will be sites looking for users if they are far enough away from municipalities or industry than can use it. The volumes at any one site do not warrant the drying and compressing for transport as liquid.

[Bob Dupee]

thanks for the 4 port glory hole idea Hugh, do youhave a pic or design that we could look at? makes alot of sense to consolidate it that way. Do you have cooling off problems w/ so many people on it at once?

And thanks for the recuperate thread..I'm new to this forum so there's lots to discover. turns out Steve is close to where i live!

[Hugh Jenkins]

Bob. I just found out that a four port I built in '02 is outdoors and being dumped. Yipes. I am going to get it back I guess. I'll send photos. It was built for a high school program that didn't continue. Send me and email through private message and I'll send you pics. The computer I do photos on will not talk to this board any more. It will send emails though.

[Jay Holden]

Bob,
Greatings, Steuben Glass used 4 port glorys for years. In 1999 they desided to go the single gloryhole route and built 13 new gloryholes. Now they have shut down half of them because they are too expencive to run 24/7. The old 4 door glorys they thought were Dinosaures ended up being more fuel efficent. They were basicly a box with four ports and top fired. They had pipe warmers on each side. The door systems were crap but it wouldn't be hard to design an efficent door. One thing that did occure was that when you put your pipes in the warmers you had to make sure that knowone was in the gloryhole because the glass would pop off and contaminate the other guy's piece. Many a fight started because of that problem.
Jay.

[Hugh Jenkins]

Anyone who builds a four port glory hole would never heat up cold pipes in it. They are a way tougher build than any furnace. A separate pipe warmer is justified!

[Bob Dupee]

Sounds like the 4 ports have had some wider use than expected.... interesting story about Steuben, Jay. Hugh has a good (& simple) door setup on his 4 port that is noteworthy. Sounds like the dinosaur age may have a resurgence as gas prices keep going up & up. Wonder if there's any other experiences w/ 4 ports that people have had out there.....

[Hugh Jenkins]

I had already mentioned in the past that the Steuben units were the inspiration for those I built for teaching. When Steuben took them out, it cut some of the credibility for them in the eyes of many startup glass teaching programs. Over the years I have recommended them many times for the efficiency of space, fuel and supervision over the multi singles that are often used. I don't know of any one taking me up on it. I do have pictures of the '02 model that I will send to anyone who asks. It needs some repair and I will try a recuperation idea on it to see how it responds.

[Nick Jones]

Would it be possible to get a pic of a 4 port gloryhole here on the board? I've never seen one before and I'm getting tingles all over just thinking about the contraption.

[Hugh Jenkins]

I have all my photos on the computer that won't talk to the board. I'd love to figure that one out. But I can fire wire or disc copy that to this one and post it. Give me taday to work on that.

[Hugh Jenkins]

Hope this works! Understand that this thing is now out in the weather, the burner is removed but was top center.

[Hugh Jenkins]

Well weathered four port glory hole:

[Franklin Sankar]

Hugh, do you have any more space on your island.
That is out of this world. Let me guess. You rent the other ports to cook for the village. Yes , Goat heads in one, pigs in the other .... ahhh the good life outdoors.
Franklin

[Tom Fuhrman]

I recall using a center fired 4 port GH at the Toledo Museum of Art back in 1974. As I recall they had 2 but I may not be remembering right. They worked well for their teaching operation. I was so green at working glass back then that I can't remember how "friendly" they were. That was back in the days that you could do no wrong, everything was fun and a new adventure.

[Nick Jones]

She's a beaut! Thanks Hugh.

[Henry Halem]

Originally posted by Tom Fuhrman
I recall using a center fired 4 port GH at the Toledo Museum of Art back in 1974. As I recall they had 2 but I may not be remembering right. They worked well for their teaching operation. I was so green at working glass back then that I can't remember how "friendly" they were. That was back in the days that you could do no wrong, everything was fun and a new adventure. Tom,
You remember correctly, they were 4 port glory holes, bottom center fired. I remember visiting with Fritz before it opened and he showed me the GH's and he said, "take a look at this, they should last about a day." Well, the first piece that fell off the punty rod fell into the burner rendering it useless. The studio was designed and built by old factory guys. Those glory holes were soon replaced with ones Fritz built and worked just fine. The original Toledo studio looked like a pasturizing plant. It was the most ungreen studio imaginable.

[Hugh Jenkins]

Henry, I love hearing equipment stories like that one!!

This GH has a center bottom poop drain with a soft plug in it. It has never pooped but the ones at Punahou used to drop one on the floor every month or so. Otherwise there would have been a lake in there after a semester. They actually lasted around 8 to 10 years with daily use. We would trowel in a new floor each summer.