Furnace update

[Ben Rosenfield]

I installed the elements and made the hole for the thermocouple. Yes.

[Ben Rosenfield]

A look inside:

[TC Robertson]

Is there a drain? How to remove messy glass build-up from bottom? Later, TC

[Ben Rosenfield]

No drain. Keeping it simple.

I have a rammable bowl at the bottom, and there will be grog as well. I'm not fussing with the design. I will be casting a ring to put at the top, and it'll hang over the heating chamber and meet the edges of the pot. That should help prevent some mess.

It's a wire melter, so part of it is consumable. I planned it the way I wanted it, and with the experience I've gained and the jigs I've made, rebuilding a brick chamber and putting in new elements will be a snap.

[Drew Fritts]

Ben,

I'm surprised that you mortered the bricks together. When you do your first rebuild you might consider leaving them loose. It makes replacing bricks that get damaged much faster and easier.

Drew <+><

[Ben Rosenfield]

I like mortar. I also like cutting old bricks when repairs need to be made. So it's a real love connection. Besides, all the goofing around to get everything right would, with my luck, knock bricks loose or worse. This is much more rugged. A pilot hole and a Sawzall will take care of any brick problems in a jiffy.

Frankly, I'm surprised you don't mortar. Mortaring is where it's at, man.

I'm just doing this my way and incorporating some of the fine ideas I've gotten from this community. Keep in mind that this whole project is for my own satisfaction. It's not my full-time job. I'm doing it for pleasure and at my leisure.

[Scott Dunahee]

Ben,

Nice work. I'm afraid from the photos that your grooves are a bit shallow. Make sure you pin your elements in well. I'd recomed a pin at each junction, about an inch in from the brick seam. It'll be easier if you gently pull the coil out and give it a little extra stretch to put it firmly in those channels in the corners.

When coils escape the grooves, they inevitably short the circuit. This is how i've lost all of my elements sets to date, save one. My new grooves are 5/8" diameter to accomodate the coils and 1 1/2" deep to really get them down in the bricks.

I worked out of it all weekend and those coils are not coming out. They're all snug in the bottom of those deep grooves.

It looks like you're doing a great job though! Looks like my first build.

BSD

[Nick Jones]

Oh yes. My furnace envy groweth.

[Ben Rosenfield]

Originally posted by Scott Dunahee
Nice work. I'm afraid from the photos that your grooves are a bit shallow. Make sure you pin your elements in well.

Thanks, Scott. Your furnace is serving as a model for some of the tricks I'm playing on my melter.

This is the problem with photos sometimes and the abstract angles I'm known to use when taking them. The grooves are 3/4" wide x ~1.3" deep (judging by the paint wear on my router bit), though the actual useful depth is a tad shorter due to the cutting angle. The elements are 5/8" and seated in the straights. They're a little jumpy in a few places where the bricks are joined. I may just put a slight kink in the elements at each sharp bend so they'll sit. That's what I've seen in the commercial pottery kilns I've played with, so it should work here. If I need to pin them, so be it.

[Pete VanderLaan]

That looks nice Ben. What's the floor made of that is going to get glass all over it?

[Ben Rosenfield]

Thanks, Pete. The floor is Morcolite 30, which is the equivalent of Kastolite 30 but is 10% lighter (it's not that Morcocast 90 or whatever it was that gave you and Henry nightmares). On top of it is a nice breadbowl made of rammed Morco Super Plastic A. I'll be putting some grog on the few small spots where the bread bowl is acting bashful and in the breadbowl as well to catch the mess. Also, there is no element in the bottom groove of the brick that's in contact with the floor.

[Scott Dunahee]

Originally posted by Ben Rosenfield
I may just put a slight kink in the elements at each sharp bend so they'll sit. If I need to pin them, so be it.

Do kink them into the corner grooves. Did you remember to wash them in acetone and wear rubber or nitrile gloves when handling? My fingers will discolor stainless steel guitar strings in a short time. It's Thumb's idea and I've used it on my last 2 element installs.

I didn't pin my first set of elements and I lost them the first day of blowing. My grooves were shallower than you describe yours at only anout 3/4".

Just trying to save you some grief if I can. I dry stacked the brick rings this time. No mortar. I haven't had very good luck with mortar, but that's probably me.

BSD

[Pete VanderLaan]

I would bring the rammable clay further up the walls of the kiln.

Really.

[Ben Rosenfield]

Originally posted by Scott Dunahee
Do kink them into the corner grooves. Did you remember to wash them in acetone and wear rubber or nitrile gloves when handling? My fingers will discolor stainless steel guitar strings in a short time. It's Thumb's idea and I've used it on my last 2 element installs.

I didn't pin my first set of elements and I lost them the first day of blowing. My grooves were shallower than you describe yours at only anout 3/4".

Just trying to save you some grief if I can. I dry stacked the brick rings this time. No mortar. I haven't had very good luck with mortar, but that's probably me.

BSD

I might do the acetone wash. I need to pull the elements to bend them for the brick joins anyway, so it'd be an opportune time to do so.

This stuff isn't traditional mortar, nor is it Sairset. It's called Fiber Adhesive, good to 3000F, and recommended by Tom at Hi-Temp over any alternative. And I truly do appreciate your input.

[Ben Rosenfield]

Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan
I would bring the rammable clay further up the walls of the kiln.

Really. I can still do that, to a point. I have enough rammable left and can actually use an old mold I made to form it so it'll actually cover the face of the bricks in the bottom ring and leave no floor exposed. Thanks for the advice.

[Eben Horton]

Are you sure you dont want a drain?? I understand your intentions, but thats like buiding a boat without a bilge pump.

[Ben Rosenfield]

Yes, I'm sure.

Guys, this is not an all day, every day melter. I'll blow for a weekend, shut down, and have plenty of time to inspect and, when needed, make repairs. This is a hobby, not a full-time job. At this point, getting one pot of glass will be a goal completed and a dream realized. From there, it's gravy.

[Eben Horton]

after some thought i realize that you will be gathering from the top... in my furnace you gather from the side, and those gather tails if and when they happen add up... plus i am blowing daily.

ok... now finnish that thing.

[Ben Rosenfield]

Eben,

Thank you. I really do look forward to finishing the thing.

I'm sliding as many condoms as I can onto this great big cock, so to speak, but at some point the ends do not justify the means. I either get it done and get it in use, or I spend an inordinate amount of time ****ing with it, which will result in an unnecessarily overdone system that is, as a result, even more expensive and time-consuming to maintain and repair. I appreciate all of the advice I get, and I accept full responsibility for the melter, regardless of who is right or wrong. After all, I'm making it entirely on my own.

But to address your initial concern, there will be a ring of some sort with a generous enough overhang to prevent gathers from dripping in the gap between the brick face and the crucible. The rammed breadbowl will have grog in it, and I will use the rest of my rammable stash to further shield the bottom ring of bricks from potential glass contact.

[Scott Dunahee]

Top gathering furnaces like you're building are much less messy beasts than side gathered. I cleaned mine out a few weeks ago and got out maybe a softball sized lump of glass out of the bottom after 3 years of intermittent use. The floor casting is now cracked, but looks to be in great shape for another couple of years of service. That was melting a combo of batch and cullet over those few years.

It is so much easier to load the crucible with your glass, cullet or batch in a top load furnace that little material gets spilled over the side. There is also very little in the way of gathering trails, once you get the hang of it.

I'm glad I put a drain in mine as it made the cleanout pretty easy, but I bet you could run one without a drain for a couple or 5 years before you rebuild the bottom.

I'll try to dig a pic or two outta the camera of the rebuild I just did.

BSD

[Dave Bross]

A lot of grog on the bottom will compensate for many things. Put it under the pot too. Makes it easier to get it loose when required.