Electric Glory

[Lia Howe]

Okay stop yelling at your computer. It didn't ask the question and I didn't either. My husband wants to know if anyone uses the Electroglass glory hole.
After coming home from GAS my husband had lots of questions about electric glory holes. He can wire like nobodys business but he feels that the propane glory may be more of a pain in the ass than he likes. He understands that it takes longer to heat up but he figures I have to do something while my Stadelman heats up too.I have only used a propane hole so any input would be great.Lia
P.S Please help me!!!! My husband wants to throw out my propane glory and just order an electric. I need some good arguements. Help!!!.Lia

[Ben Rosenfield]

Lia,

From what I understand, the recovery time in an electric glory is really, really, really, really, really, really, really ... slow. Go with a fuel gas.

If I recall correctly, Brian Gingras may have told me that Diablo Glass and Metal uses an electric glory.

[Jordan Kube]

I've seen one in action and the guys who used it said it was garbage.

[Brent Hickenbotham]

I can give you a multitude a reasons not to get an electric gloryhole. The biggest reason is that we are ELECTRIC furnace builders and we advise not to build electric or buy electric glory holes, they just dont work unless you put like 30 to 40 thousand dollars into a single one. I know two people personally that hate them and trashed them after only a couple of months of use. Now they use gas.

I'm just saying, that if the electric equipment builders say they suck that should be a pretty good indication.

I think this is the third time we have had this conversation. Do you not trust us?:D

[Alexander Adams]

I used one down in Florida once.
It was deficient, inferior, lousy, off, poor, rotten, substandard, unacceptable, ungodly, unsatisfactory, wanting, wretched, wrong, defective, faulty, flawed; execrable, lesser, low-grade, mediocre, reprehensible, second-rate, unspeakable; useless, inadequate, insufficient, lacking; astray; scurrilous, villainous and republican.

[Brent Hickenbotham]

Originally posted by Alexander Adams
I used one down in Florida once.
It was deficient, inferior, lousy, off, poor, rotten, substandard, unacceptable, ungodly, unsatisfactory, wanting, wretched, wrong, defective, faulty, flawed; execrable, lesser, low-grade, mediocre, reprehensible, second-rate, unspeakable; useless, inadequate, insufficient, lacking; astray; scurrilous, villainous and republican.

I love the republican crack!:toast: :clap: :rotfl: :happy:

[Jeff Thompson]

Originally posted by Lia Howe
He understands that it takes longer to heat up but he figures I have to do something while my Stadelman heats up too.

This just doesn't make sense....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your Stadelman furnace will be on 24/7, right? A gas hole will take 30-60-90 minutes to heat up each morning.... this is the time in the morning when you can set up color, sweep, arrange tools, talk thru game-plans w/ the help, etc.

An electric glory hole takes so long to heat up, that you'll have to leave it on 24/7. It's like buying and running another furnace. You'll spend more on electricity than you would've on gas, unless your gas is more than $4/gallon.

The biggest reason of them all: An electric glory provides no hot zone, it's just ambient, soft heat. Maybe you already know this, but a gas-fired glory hole has hot and hotter areas inside it. When you're working glass, say you need to melt in pattern, you know to go soak the glass in that place.

How much is it going to cost to build/buy an electric glory hole? 17 grand? How much for a gas glory? 6 grand? (really, i don't know, what are the prices?)

Is your husband the glassblower? The reality is that the glassblower needs to choose the equipment they want and everyone else has to make do cause it isn't their shop!

(If you don't read this thread as a red-flag regarding electric glory holes, then you're ignorantly dismissing hundreds of years of combined experience. don't do it!)

[Brian Gingras]

Originally posted by Ben Rosenfield
Lia,

From what I understand, the recovery time in an electric glory is really, really, really, really, really, really, really ... slow. Go with a fuel gas.

If I recall correctly, Brian Gingras may have told me that Diablo Glass and Metal uses an electric glory.

Yes they do/did

From what I understand it's great if you like to work tiny slow, and spend huge amounts of money on electricity. I the think the words I got from a former diablo manager were "biggest mistake".

[Ben Rosenfield]

Originally posted by Brent Hickenbotham
I love the republican crack! So, the GOP has sunk beneath regular cocaine and is now freebasing it. Lovely.

[Jeff Mentuck]

I used to teach at diablo and worked out of those electric glorys. I wouldn't buy one but the heat was fine and I didn't notice any real troubling heat loss unless you kept the door open all the time. They do keep them running all the time which seems like it would have to be less efficient than gas. I would definately go with gas, but if you were stuck with electric you could still make work.

[Joe Deanda]

the most efficient means of achieving thermal transfer is with convection. No wind makes it much slower plus no hot spot. Nuff said ? If you use any type of electric furnace try it as a glory hole and see how ya like it.
Nuff said ? Joe

[Steve Stadelman]

Lia, don't try to use my furnace as a glory hole. We will both be dissappointed.

[Scott Novota]

I use one as my primary glory.


Pnuematic door tends to be a problem at points but that could be any pnuematic door not specific to electroglass.

No real hot spot, but there is a demarc zone from kinda hot to hotter. Your right, there is no real way to spot heat anything unless you blast it with a torch before you go in.

Glass poping on the elements has been a problem in the past when heating up a pipe before a gather.

We run ours down to 2000f when not in use, then back up to 2300f when we need to use it. It takes it about 35 mintues to go up that 300f.

You can hot swap the elements, but you can't run on 2 of the 3. If you leave the doors open to much you loose to much heat and can't recover fast enough. IE> If you have two people working out of the same glory, say one doing a large piece and one doing a cup your going to drop down to around 2000 before it is all over. The door needs to be shut after you go in or you loose to much heat.

Our ring is ripped out for more space and that has and adverse reaction to heat recovery so take everything I say as it being used in a less than perfect way.

I don't mind the glory actually, it is great for sculpture, teaching classes, and students, but the single largest problem is lack of a hot spot. It can be used and worked from but it is not ideal. The electroglass furnace has only lost one element that I know of in 3 years. The Glory on the other hand has lost to my knowledge 4 in that same time period.

I am building a my own small shop, I will have a gas glory. I don't have the cash to run one 24/7 and I want a hot spot.


Scott.
.

[David Patchen]

I think ppl tend to think a glory should run at a temp that's close to furnace hold temps (2000-2100), but since a glory is for bringing cold, unmoving glass back to a liquid state, unless your working thin goblets in a cool hole, I'd estimate that a good 'n hot glory runs at something closer to 2250, with a hot spot in front of the burner of maybe 2350 degrees.

Don't believe it? Try reheating a piece in your 2100 degree furnace and see how long it takes. Also--not that this is scientific, but isn't your glory *much* brighter than your furnace? That's heat baby. It would be interesting if anyone here has actually tried to measure their glory temps in hot and hotter zones.

I've never used an electric hole and wouldn't want to based on the collective experience of the people on this thread who have.

[Brian Mazrim]

It seem that all of the problems with electric glory holes stem from having elements in the chamber. Radiant heat only means a slow warm up and recovery time and no hot spot, and the elements are exposed to popping glass. So is it possible to put in an electric inline gas(air) heater with the same blower that a gas glory hole has? Kind of like inline water heaters. A quick search found these:

http://www.mhi-inc.com/PG4/Atintro.html

Hard to tell from the site if they have enough power to heat a glory hole well, or how expensive they are to run.

[Steve Stadelman]

Now you are getting off into esoteric weird solution land.

That's a lot of fun but do you want to blow glass?

[Brian Mazrim]

Yes, I do want to blow glass. But I'm at work right now, so the best I can do is let my mind wander to esoteric weird solution land. But these do look like self-contained devices, and are touted as being energy efficient. So do you think it would be possible to tear out a burner, bolt this into the line, wire it into a controller box, and go?

[Scott Novota]

That is pretty interesting no matter how wierd it is. It is a big blow dryer!


Scott.
.

[Pete VanderLaan]

electric gloryholes are really something we can all do without. I am fully expecting someone to recommend a microwave one next.

[David Patchen]

Hey--I have a great idea!! What if you took one of those industrial-strength microwaves and...

How about this totally wacko idea: We switch to ceramic blowpipes and since glass conducts electricity, we connect a lead to the moile and a lead to the bottom of the piece and we heat up the glass by foot-actuated current. Let the glass be the conductive element if you will... Relax, I told you it was wacko.

I think the hot air blower is pretty funny. Sounds like something the army could use. Or turned on low, maybe a sorority house in Texas?

[Lia Howe]

OKAY I am listenening. Remember my HUSBAND asked the question. I have only worked in a gas glory and I liked it a lot. I am going to keep working on getting the TSSA "guy" to like me and the piece he describes as a "glass blower". I think a glory hole is just something that they don't see everyday. I think that my gas fitter is trading scematics (sp. drawings) and I think that I will get through eventually. My Stadelman is sitting at 2000 degrees waiting patiently for glass. I will fill it up on Sat. and I will use my gas fired glory and try to explain to my husband why it is the best way to go. Thanks Lia

[Laura Doerger-Roberts]

Peter has moved on from lasers to high-powered microwaves. I'll see what he can come up with.

[Pete VanderLaan]

I don't know if anyone recalls the notion of methane collection that we discussed in the first incarnation of craftweb about seven years ago. It was the rounding up the cows and the collection system that was the hardest. Those critters just wouldn't stay put.

That and Magic Mountain with the naturally occuring lead crystal mined from the Austrian Hungarian border in which the lead harmlessly leached out of the glass when you used it... Where the Hell is Heidi when we need her? The good old days.

Sure, electric gloryholes are a great idea.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally posted by Lia Howe
My Stadelman is sitting at 2000 degrees waiting patiently for glass. I will fill it up on Sat. and I will use my gas fired glory and try to explain to my husband why it is the best way to go. Thanks Lia

******************
Just to give you an idea Lia, why don't you just reheat out of the Furnace? You won't like it but it will be very clear to you why you really want gas. You will be able to make things, just very slowly. I know a number of people who reheat from their furnaces, both electric and Gas.

[Scott Novota]

Don't leave out the bastard child solar.


50 large cast glass magnifiers pointing down into the pot, or reflexed into the pot from mirrors, your choice.


Scott.
.

[Pringle Teetor]

I learned to blow glass in a hybrid gas/electric glory hole..... hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it - never really knew what hot was...
I love our home built gas glory and our elecric furnace.
HOT HOT HOT and a beautiful hot spot! I am finally reprogrammed to blow hot!
Don't do it!

[James Ennis]

our glorys run at 2350 to 2400
I know because we have an optical
piromeeter. wow you would need
alot of elements to stay at that temp

[Henry Halem]

I was apprised of the fact that when the refractory in an electric glory hole gets to a certain temperature it will conduct electricity and one can actually get a tingle if they come in contact with the refractory or the shell. I don't know if this is true or not but I'm sure someone on this board can address that urban story.

[William Kurylo]

I too began learning in the electric / gas hybrid glory that Pringle mentioned. We used to leave the elements on 24/7 at about 1500. When we came in to blow we'd crank up the elements to 2250 and turn on the gas. The only benefit I see in this set up is that it was ready to go in less than 30 minutes.

One night while fishing a broken encalmo piece out, I was mildly shocked. I was shocked to say the least! :-) I never trusted it again.

[Scott Novota]

The only time I have ever been zapped in over 3 years was one time I had a punt laying on the ring of the glory and the marver at the same time(steel) to heat it up to get a bit without me holding onto it.

When I went back to grab the punt it popped me enough never to do it again.


Scott.
.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Alumina does not conduct, mullite does. This is true of your thermocouple sheaths but I have never had experience with an electric gloryhole other than standing about ten feet from it saying, "This is Dumb".

[Steve Stadelman]

Originally posted by Scott Novota
The only time I have ever been zapped in over 3 years was one time I had a punt laying on the ring of the glory and the marver at the same time(steel) to heat it up to get a bit without me holding onto it.

When I went back to grab the punt it popped me enough never to do it again.


Scott.
.

Scott, if you get zapped the equipment is not neat or cool at all. You should not have to memorize "rules" to use it. If you cannot work in conjunction with a steel marver that's wrong. How many shops have water on the floor because of a strip-off bucket next to the furnace?

[David Paterson]

I have been using a wire melter for several years. One hot day I was working in running shoes making small pieces. One of the running shoes got slightly damp when I spilled a bit of water on it while changing the water in a block bucket.

The next gather gave me a good tingle. Later, I decided to measure the voltage by putting a punty into the glass and measutring it against a ground. Result: about 60 volts.

The elements had about 130 volts running into them. At 220 volts, I would expect the leakage to be quite a bit higher

Now there is a switch in the door that disconnects the power when I gather.


.

[Pete VanderLaan]

wise to remember that electricity goes to the most attractive ground, preferably a copper rod driven about eight feet into the earth. Water on the floor is very attractive. So is sweat actually.

Ground those puppies like your life depended on it.

[John Riepma]

"our glorys run at 2350 to 2400
I know because we have an optical
piromeeter. wow you would need
alot of elements to stay at that temp"

What brand Pyrometer, how much, nd where did you get it?

[James Ennis]

"What brand Pyrometer, how much, nd where did you get it?"

its a raytek raynger 3i

dont rember where its from but it was
around $1800.00 I think,
the cheeper ones do not go to a
high enough temp for glass equipment.

[Lia Howe]

Thanks for all the input. I think I have cured my husbands need for electric glory. I have been blowing in my glory (propane) for about a week now and I won't give it up. Lia

[Greg Vriethoff]

Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan

Ground those puppies like your life depended on it.

Because it does.

[Paul Thompson]

Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan
electric gloryholes are really something we can all do without. I am fully expecting someone to recommend a microwave one next.
Lasers, plasmas, and heliostats, oh my!
<shields up>

How about a heliostat powered furnace or glory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Tres_Power_Tower)? We could direct the concentrated sunlight into the crucible or glory instead of converting it to electricity (strong eyeglasses required). The optical properties of glass may make for some interesting side effects, like becoming the ants I used to fry with a magnifying glass as a kid, but that's just kharma. There would be challenges with things like night, clouds, bird poop, dust, etc. so it won't be totally off the grid. Darkness at nighttime could be eliminated by a decree from King George (if Halliburton got the contract to build the thing), but starlings are another matter.