reducing question

[Jane Greer]

I have a glory hole that has a blower to move the gas and when I need to reduce, I have just been turning up the gas. Any suggestions on a better way of dong this without a lot of modifications to the glory hole?

thanks
Jane

[Steve Stadelman]

Throw in a peanut m&m.

[Brian Gingras]

bees wax if you eat all the m&m's

[Randy Kaltenbach]

Jane, these guys aren't kidding! Any greasy food will do in a pinch. This adds lots of fuel to the mix very quickly and uses up some of the available oxygen. I've also used a small handful of roasted peanuts, etc.

Stay away from dead stray animals, though. the stench is nasty. ;)

[Jane Greer]

Come on guys, I have a big enough mess in the bottom of the glory hole from all my students exploding shit, I don't need any more.

[Mark Halva]

I use my Exact torch for doing some reducing. Trails and lip wraps.
Mark

[Rick Sherbert]

No kidding, a peanut or a little bit of wax will do the trick and not leave any mess in the hole. A cat on the other hand...

[Randy Kaltenbach]

Originally posted by Jane Greer
Come on guys, I have a big enough mess in the bottom of the glory hole from all my students exploding shit, I don't need any more. Well, you asked for advice. We gave it. You are trying to tell us that you teach and you can't understand how adding fuel to a GH flame leads to reduction :rolleyes:

[Jane Greer]

Fuel yes, but I have never heard of M&M's! Sorry but I will give her a go, Thanks

[Allan Gott]

Oh my.

Randy, are you channelling Ed Skeels???? A kinder, gentler Ed.:eek:

Perhaps you'd like to skate on over to the Pilchuck Syndrome thread.

[Brian Gingras]

we used peanut m&m's for a while, but my assistant complained about weight gain and I never had any left when I needed them..the beeswax, on the other hand, also is dripping and making little spikes off the back of the bench that make for great missiles into the hole when needed. Use to much and your piece comes out soot covered.

[Hugh Jenkins]

When I was still teaching, we worked around 4 port glory holes. When I would give a demo, there would often be some student on the far side of the GH who would pitch in a ball of bench dribble wax. No harm done, but it wasn't something to encourage in a high school shop.

Jane, I am surprised that no one mentioned that turning down the air can also cause reduction. It can also cause back fire if not handled correctly. Turning up the gas is actually the method of choice these days.

[Jane Greer]

I can't turn the air down, the blower only has two speeds, on or off, so that isn't an option. Turning the gas up is what I've been doing, but with some of the thinner pieces that becomes a problem. I have taken the pieces and put them in the pipe warmer for a while which works for smaller pieces.
I will try the other suggestions, although it seems a waste of good M&Ms...lol

[Brian Gingras]

Jane, the reduction can be done on the last flash actually and should not take so long as to remelt the piece.

Have you experimented with different locations in your hole. For me, silver colors will reduce for me if I tilt the piece closer to the burner block on my last flash...I have gotten used to the location and can reduce at will now.

[Jane Greer]

Brian, I have an haven't found the sweet spot yet.

[Brian Gingras]

peanut m&m's then...they do work great

[Wes Hunting]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jane Greer
[B]I can't turn the air down, the blower only has two speeds, on or off, so that isn't an option.

Jane,
You should have some way of adjusting the air flow on your glory
by way of air valves or a shutter on your blower. How do you fine tune the combustion?

[Jane Greer]

Wes,
The blower is separate from the gas so the only way I have to adjust the combustion is to increase or decrease the gas flow.

[Jeff Thompson]

In the spirit of the pilchuck thread:

I want to know the NAME of the person who built a glory hole w/o a butterfly valve on the air line!

[Jeff Thompson]

Ok, no more joking.
I'm always changing the airflow running into my glory hole. In the morning I'll crank it up so it get hot quicker. Then when it starts to fry to color, I'll turn it down a shade.

But working with what you have right now, this is what I would do: (you say you're having trouble on thinner pieces w/ the gas turned up to reduce) Approaching the last few minutes of creation, I would open the glory hole for a few moments/minutes to let out a bunch of heat, then have your assistant turn up the gas for the final flash or two. Maybe that would keep your piece from being distorted?

The Exact torch mentioned earlier would do the trick, too. But that's a much more of a subtle reduction effect, I think.

[Jane Greer]

Hadn't thought of that Jeff, thanks I'll give that a try as well.

Jane

[Pete VanderLaan]

Even the exact torch needs aluminum foil wrapped around the head to develop reduction decently. If you can't put a flap over the blower intake, then more gas is the answer. I would point out that it invites too much of a good thing and excessive prolonged reduction creates a pretty crappy looking surface on a piece unless the reducing glass has a substantial amount of bismuth in it. I usually used reduction to create matte fumes but would simply preheat the piece in the gloryhole and then matte out the fume with a bench torch.


I do agree with Randy though about the teaching part.

[Jane Greer]

Gez, excuse me if I'm not a chemist and know that whats in M&M's would cause a reduction:wile:

[Hugh Jenkins]

Jane, any excess burnable material will cause reduction, be it extra propane, some beeswax, paper, motor oil, peanuts or M&Ms (sugar, peanut oil, cocoa butter, artificial coloring). There is big difference in what ends up blowing around the room and the smell. Pete fogs up the issue some with the bismuth comment, but maybe Peptobismul fuming is the next new technique.

You do need to understand the comments about your equipment though. How did you end up with a glory hole that has no air control at all, only all on or off? Glory holes need power to heat up from cold that they don't need when they are up to temp. When you adjust the gas you also need to adjust the air. You must be wasting a lot of fuel. Opening the door to intentionally cool down the GH is not a good long term solution, though it will work. Get someone in NC (there are many) who knows burners to help you improve your setup.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Sorry to muddle it up. My point with the bismuth is really that there is such a thing as too much reduction for too long. Bismuth does help forstall that unfortunate result.

I do get testy about teaching. I take it very seriously and I genuinely believe that the teacher really needs to know their stuff and that simply operating from the framework of "I know more than you do therefore..." is not a great basis for offering to teach. I don't think that needs to be said in a devastating fashion but I don't think it''s inappropriate to make that observation either. I don't believe I have said anything in an uncivil fashion. Ed is frequently right on the money but has the capacity to go for the juglar when it's just not called for.

[Jane Greer]

Pete,
I understand where you are coming from, but considering I have posted very little here and I don't believe anyone on this board knows me, I don't think anyone is in any position to determine who is or who is not capable of teaching when you have so little information. While I know you know color, that doesn't mean that I would necessarily determine that you are capable of teaching (although I am sure you are). I just don't know enough about you to make that decision. Ed's comment to me, while mean spirited, didn't bother me, it just told me he was quick to judge, as it appears there are many here who are. I live in an area where there are no glassblowers within a 2 hour drive (ask Pringle) so my education has come from time spent at Corning and with Eric Kvarnes in Va. Do I know everything, NO, I am the first to admit that, but I thought that is what this forum is for.
Did I know M&M's or beeswax will cause a reducing admosphere in a glory hole, No. So What! If it is such common knowledge, then why isn't in either of Ed's books?
I don't think you were uncivil, possibly just quick to judge.
Either way its all good and I appreciate all the great advice.

Jane

[Doug Sweet]

Jane, does your glory hole have its on blower or do you have a big mother blower for all burners? If the glory hole has a seperate blower you should be able to reduce the air intake. I find duct tape or cardboard works well. Blocking the air intake will give you reduction. By playing with amount of air intake blockage you should be able to balance your air gas mixture. After the hole is hot reduce the air then reduce your gas until you are not reducing.