watching red glass striking ...

[Paul Koehler]

hows life ..welcome to my madness ....built 19 glass furnaces .. some for school some for friends and a few for my self ..got invested pot furnace out in shop 16 yrs old cast.. in barrel 32 in... make sure many small holes in barrel to allow steam to escape first heat ..can you say explosive spalling.. engineered cer ..pot 14 x9 deep .. TA530 works.. 2inch mizzou around it.. 5 inch cast ins ..2 inch frax..allows refrac expansion .. top fired gibberson head.. pre heated forced air a few coils of stainless flex pipe in crown..10 -12 gal propane a day 60 orrifice 80 -100 cfm all right lets talk shop ... atmospher planet earth 70 something %nitrogen .. well that stuff is a pain.. won't really burn till it cracks around 800 degrees ...got lotz waste heat in crown.. so cast flex pipe in crown and super insulate .. burner port has 10 degree angle to encourage flame to go where is needed.. back to this air stuff.. get to about 400 degrees before it hits mixer and finds propane 9" to dudleys device..kaboommm.. figure is 400 degrees that you don't rob from inside furnace to crack nitrogen..results show up in reduced fuel bills..percentages vary.. simple system .. thinking about drippiong water in flex pipe create steam . see what happens ... do not try this at home ... Caution. .seriouse problem potential.. one man working solo.. has absolute control of shop info.. is simpler less problems .. unless i create them
another thread .....well pot went out 5-6 yrs took off top of furnace with chain fall..set in next size pot on top of hard glass in old pot .. figured it would sink in when got hot ..it did ..4 or 5 more years then stuffed bunch of frax in pot ..set in 5 small 2 lbs pots colours .. 4 yrs later smashed up old pots rebar and cast mizzou in bottom of pot.. set in 5 new pots ..still using.. clear furnace.. invested pot same layers got 7 yrs out of last one.. on year 4 this unit ..is tight melts prime cullett economicaly ..only work 6 hrs a day ..hold low heat .. less than 2 lbs .. melt 7 lbs reheat in furnace .. one man working solo .. life is tough in the north ...
what do you think about when you are watching clear glass striking red.. cad sel rocks .. 50 grms of silicion carbide grinding grit in 88 lbs batch.. to reduce your reds .. seriouse striking ,,,woof ..
.200 grm cad sul.. 50 grms sel ox ..yellow strike hard red ..works copper too ..enjoy ..think hot work hotter ..pre heat invested furnaces slow ...24 hrs to temp.. first heat new unit 3 -4 days preheat ..lotz of steam.. chemical water .. ..tech note ..all my chemestry is and will be soda lime glass .. 50 sand 24 soda 8 lime 88 lb batches ...ps give dudley some props original burner head ..16 yrs and still honking... woof ...koehler...

[Dave Bross]

Welcome Paul. Always good to see someone belt out a good rant.

After the last discussion on invested pots, Sky's going to love the story about sinking one pot into another.

Your 50 sand 24 soda 8 lime glass is mighty high expansion. I get around 104 with E&T numbers. No devit on that?

Interesting on the silicon carbide. I've tried smaller amounts with greatly accelerated reduction. I've been hesitant to try more.

Thanks for posting your formulas. Not much of anyone doing that anymore, or even melting their own batch from what I can see.

[Paul Koehler]

back in the 70's melted 5 or 10 tons of glass from scratch some time yanked it right up there to 120coe .. was fun material to work... stayed hot forever ,,ahhh the good old days... when stuff was cheap and the epa wasn't a problem.. cadmium was my buddie ..was only melting big furnaces of single colour coe was not a problem just making big stuff.. single colour .. art stuff ..twisting a few goblet stems
no big thing.. propane was 30 cents a gallon ..ran the batch making ..tried all metalic oxides could find silver 28 grr.. cerium50gr.. vanadium60gr.. was fun ..throw some uranium pent-oxide 80gr.. in there , what the hell ..
serious colour changing glass ..see if can remember off top of head batch squirel assist
sand 50
soda 24
lime 8
feld 1
florspar 1 [optional dependent on melt ] source batch notes hard copy
nephy si 1 [optional dependent on melt ]
barrium carb1
zinc 1
cal carb 1
borax 1 . [coe adjust usually down]
sodium sul 112 grm
pot nit 112gr
arsenic ox .. 50grm
mang ox 20 grm decolourizer
throw in the kitchen sink too
melt low over night fine out am ..
workable soft glass ..hate to reheat ..this stuff today is like working rocks ..90 coe yuck ..
but use what ya got ..work faster ..
new to this computer stuff.. radio link to web.. way out in the hills .. will post some photos soon .. if any of you want to talk shop .. email me.. will send you copy of independent glass blower publication of this furnace design ..1996 ..old school ..woof... koehler ..dave new oxide # reduce melt and batch ..is all in thread.... tech note.. this batch was also melted with either ...silver nit cullett 20 lbs ....or chem silver. nit in batch ..squirel stuff

[Dave Bross]

Aaaaah... makes more sense with some alumina and more modifier.

I have a fond spot for really soft glasses too, but I'm sticking to 96 coe now to hold more options open.

Was having the flour and the nitrate fighting each other for oxygen level from not knowing that at the time? Looks like a pretty good formula, considering the era. Looks like it had almost every refining agent known at the time too. "kitchen sink" it was. I'm definitely enjoying the historical angle of what you're posting.

Cadmium scares me, and uranium more so. I'm pretty sure uranium is completely unavailable to the common man these days, and that's OK with me. Would that silver cerium vanadium glass still do the color shift without the uranium?

I'm working towards minimizing the toxics. Yeah, I know, no getting around some of it, but I'm working on things like phosphate opals instead of fluorine and copper rubies instead of cad/sel.

[Sky Campbell]

Looks like uranium oxide is still available. There has been a good bit of talk about it from the lampworkers. Seems like there is a big interest in bringing back the u-glass in the 33coe. Marble makers are going nuts over it trying to buy up all the old stock. (it was used in the scientific field for metal to glass seals) I have seen some very impressive new work with old u-glass in new school flame working techniques.

I found uranium oxide to still be available thru.:
http://unitednuclear.com/supplies.htm

I love the picture of the guy winking with the message looking for uranium?

[Pete VanderLaan]

I have been out to the guys house at United Nuclear near Albuquerque and it is like an armed camp surrounded by camera's, snarling Dobermans and razor wire. Seems ATF blew through his fence with a tank a few years back and arrested him for selling a lot of "vigorous" oxidizers and hydrocarbons. He actually wanted me to make him a uranium cullet at the time and I moved to NH and forgot about it. What he had in the way of oxides was really expensive and is available elsewhere. The cullet was not very good either, which is why I think he wanted me to make more. My son still gets aluminum powders and potassium chlorate from him for fireworks.

Silicon carbide as a reducing agent in Copper ruby is going to be very foamy stuff. It certainly will be red but not for long. Better stick to tin.

[Paul Koehler]

[i]Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan [/
sil carb works fine for reduction copper reds if one has the foresight to remove or lower oxidizers in batch.. the ites and the ates ..sod sul ..pot nit ..and melt lower temp ..with heavey reducing glasses .. slight reduction atmosphere.. 1800 -1850 degree melt.. too many glass blowers heat the chemical part of the melt too high and loose too much to combustion ..thus the [foamy ]melt low get all chemicals to flux then in morning plane out the glass a couple hours of high heat ..watch your spie hole in door to see just what is being lost durring chem melt .got to be smarter than your batch ..woof ..koehler 35yrs in front of the furnace door ...
I have been out to the guys house at United Nuclear near Albuquerque and it is like an armed camp surrounded by camera's, snarling Dobermans and razor wire. Seems ATF blew through his fence with a tank a few years back and arrested him for selling a lot of "vigorous" oxidizers and hydrocarbons. He actually wanted me to make him a uranium cullet at the time and I moved to NH and forgot about it. What he had in the way of oxides was really expensive and is available elsewhere. The cullet was not very good either, which is why I think he wanted me to make more. My son still gets aluminum powders and potassium chlorate from him for fireworks.

Silicon carbide as a reducing agent in Copper ruby is going to be very foamy stuff. It certainly will be red but not for long. Better stick to tin.

[Dave Bross]

So what about the tales from the past of high cancer mortality from the uranium radiation escaping the melt?

More fun than depleted uranium ammo being sprayed everywhere in the middle east?

Radiation freaks me out....think Chernobyl.

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Dave Bross
dave just blasted you off pm with beta ..
ur. pent is relative safe radation wise ..is by product of copper smelting ..as always particulant ..dust is problem ..them old boys were probably melting yellow cake ..uck glow in the dark glassblowers ..melt on doctor .that depleted stuff in mideast is ugly problem.. long term ..woof koehler
So what about the tales from the past of high cancer mortality from the uranium radiation escaping the melt?

More fun than depleted uranium ammo being sprayed everywhere in the middle east?

Radiation freaks me out....think Chernobyl.

[David Patchen]

Believe it or not, there is more to puncutation than " .."

Punctuation is really useful since it helps others understand what you're talking about. Give it a shot; you might like it!

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by David Patchen
that's what editors are for ...want a job ..
maybe next post in chinese ..Mandarin ..woof
Believe it or not, there is more to puncutation than " .."

Punctuation is really useful since it helps others understand what you're talking about. Give it a shot; you might like it!

can you say work in progress
edited by squirels the day Lhasa burned
for my brothers ..woof ...heartbroken

[Jordan Kube]

In addition to correct grammar, syntax and spelling, writing the message outside of the quote brackets is also helpful in communicating your thoughts in a legible way to others. Umm.. meow or baaah or cockadoodledoo :feathers:

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Jordan Kube
In addition to correct grammar, syntax and spelling, writing the message outside of the quote brackets is also helpful in communicating your thoughts in a legible way to others. Umm.. meow or baaah or cockadoodledoo :feathers:


yizhong yu yan yongyuan bu gou
ni ming bar ma ..xiao xin ..
.

zai xing xi mian fei da cheng

ta ren blan che de shou ce

na xie tong xiao.yi shi chang
biao wei xiao ...


ru quo ni bu hsi huan wo de hsieh
azwo feng ge jiou ching bie....

woof [mandarin accent]....koehler

[Kenny Pieper]

David?????

[Paul Thompson]

Originally posted by Paul Koehler {snipsnip}
..
new to this computer stuff.. radio link to web.. way out in the hills ..{mooresnip}old school ..woof... koehler .. ah-ha. That explains the telegram / morse-code style. Well, it's faster than smoke signals. Don't worry too much about the folks requesting proper anglish grammers and punkynation. There's a member from swedenmarwaviagrad (i think) with an even more challenging composition style. He's got good info, but (for me) trying to make it all the way through his posts is like nude wrestling rabid wolverines.

[Wes Hunting]

Originally posted by Paul Koehler
yizhong yu yan yongyuan bu gou
ni ming bar ma ..xiao xin ..
.

zai xing xi mian fei da cheng

ta ren blan che de shou ce

na xie tong xiao.yi shi chang
biao wei xiao ...


ru quo ni bu hsi huan wo de hsieh
azwo feng ge jiou ching bie....

woof [mandarin accent]....



35 years.... woof :rolleyes:

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Paul Thompson
ah-ha. That explains the telegram / morse-code style. Well, it's faster than smoke signals. Don't worry too much about the folks requesting proper anglish grammers and punkynation. There's a member from swedenmarwaviagrad (i think) with an even more challenging composition style. He's got good info, but (for me) trying to make it all the way through his posts is like nude wrestling rabid wolverines.
thanx guys was starting to wonder ..is easier to chat in english ..mandarin rusty ..tools polished ..
new to key board old school ..friends have learned to deal with ..hows life ..clear treating you fairly ..this web stuff pretty cool ..been awhile working solo 16 yrs now ..private influence ..demanding ..
has taking me to a unique space ..welcome to my madness ..how you melt ..?what you melt ..?give it up .
tell me a storie ..trade ya ..melt any gold .02of 1%
where do you find your reds ..[no stores please ]
well next thread ...maybe english.. maybe mandrian .. need the practice ...woof ..koehler

[Dave Bross]

Yeah, I actually enjoy the free form punctuation and grammar.... We've got some fun "alternatives" here already in Brian B. our fearless laplander, Franklin and the Trinis, etc.

I was just reading somwhere that creativity is thought to be greater permeability between areas of the brain that are usually carefully isolated from each other. I suspect you might enhance that by being open to unusual "patterns"for your neurons to play with.

I've been missing "batch talk" on here so I'll go into some of what I've been up to. I'll even stay "on topic" with red.

Copper Ruby

After reading the Glafo paper posted here on cutting the copper content of rubies way down by using antimony, and looking at Hugh's post from way back on his Penland "strikes in the annealer" copper ruby, I made an experimental blend to try for copper ruby lite. I have some memory I already posted this but I'll go again in case not.


Melting & batching at 2200F

By weight

sand - 100
soda ash - 39
Lime - 8.5
strontium carbonate - 7
zinc - 3
black tin - 1
Borax 5 mol - 13
Lithium Carbonate - 0.7
Antimony - 0.22
sodium tripolyphosphate - 1
copper carbonate - 0.7

Percentages

SiO2 - 66.72
Na2O - 17.45
LiO - 0.19
CaO - 4.33
SrO - 3.3
Zn - 2.01
Sn - .67
B2O3 - 4.25
P2O5 - 0.39
Sb2O5 - .15
Cu - 0.34

How it works:

It comes out of the pot clear. It needs to be cooled to where it shows almost no color from heat at some point in the process or it will not strike. I've been casing it or using it by itself so I'm cooling it after I have enough color on the stick for what I'm doing. It will still be clear. Go ahead and case it or whatever else to finish up. It will go into the annealer pretty much clear with the strike beginning slightly in a few spots. It strikes in the annealer. It's a lot of fun to peek in there now and again and watch it gain color. About 2-3 hours at 940-950F will get you cherry red in something about 4-5 mm thick. If it goes too long in the annealer it will eventually get a bit of brown to it, in my stuff about 4-5 hours in the annealer brings some brown tinges.

Problems yet to be solved:

Melting it in my wire melter, the atmosphere in the melter will oxidise the top few inches of glass enough to prevent striking by the time it fines out. It's a reducing glass so you have to just drop the viscosity of the glass and wait for the bubs to rise to fine it. I put a ton of borax in it to drop the viscosity (seemed safer than using fluorine for viscosity drop in a wire melter and surprisingly few cords) but it still needs 10-12 hours to fine.
As a temporary fix,I've been gathering it out as soon as it's melted and fined a little, then remelting that cullet in the glory in small pots where I can hold a reducing atmosphere on it. I've also been using it as-is with the tiny bubs in it.
I would imagine you could use some less exotic phosphorous like bone ash and substitute whatever ingredients for what you have on hand. You could also just add the copper tin phosphorous and antimony to whatever unoxidised batch you use. You'll probably have to adjust the expansion, I melted it in my underpowered melter and it wants a 91 E&T number for that particular furnace. Next experiments on this will play with decreasing copper and tin content to see what it does for color and striking times. I would like it to take much longer to strike so I could put away more in the annealer before it had to be turned down. Maybe add some silver too like that old Penland copper ruby recipe posted way back. The mention here on silicon carbide reminded me that I wanted to try adding enough s.c. to get a little foaming to maybe promote better fining, but I'm thinking that even if the bubs are bigger there's still not enough oxygen in them for a fast rise.

Considering our plummeting dolar value vs. gold I don't see myself trying anything with gold any time soon. I did try some melts like that old recipe for neodymium selenium ruby but no good results with it.

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Dave Bross
So what about the tales from the past of high cancer mortality from the uranium radiation escaping the melt?

More fun than depleted uranium ammo being sprayed everywhere in the middle east?

Radiation freaks me out....think Chernobyl.

david got your mail.. electric furnaces are a pain ...know nothing about them nor do i care to learn ..don't get me started another thread ..would be difficult to melt reducing glasses in oxidizing atmosphere never tried it ..no info sorrie ..you asked about oxidizers verses reduction the competion for oxygen valence state in batch.. addressed that in thread earlier ..have to reduce or remove the ..ates and nites ..them oxidizers ..deal with coe with the borax is not that big a fix .. ..scholes mg practice ...hall's formula ..wyles coloured glass solid intel ..
you can get away with some oxides but the ates and ites sulfates nitrates ..those are concerns ..
silicon carbide will set you free ..is cheap ..
tin expensive ..woof koehler ...

dave just reread your post 12hrs finning is long time ..are you reboiling your glass...thinking there are two stages of melting batch ..the chemical when all them chemicals flux up ..then physical when is liquid ..what worked for us ..was melt lower temp over night..1800 -1850 8 hrs .. ..don't get too hot or you get really little bubbles oppps too hot.. try to catch melt when bubbles size of match head.. pencil erraser size ..then get it hot 2200.. quickly ...rake top of glass ....there it is the prime time ..no new bubbles and you got it ..turn heat down a bit ..but this is all top fired propane experience ..electric furances.. ain't got a clue .. what can i say ..watch the reboil ..
..copper red 65 grm copper carb 200 antimony ..some times tin ..200grm..some times sil carb ..hand ful from grinding wheel ..50 grm ..
kinda remembering some thing about copper 4 or 5 brain is dusty ..let me ponder this some ..
later.. that is lotz of borax ..woof ..koehler .

parting thought all my chem was with a unique glass ..as they all are ..and each glass has it's own magik and needs to be treated accordingly ..woof ...

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Dave Bross
Yeah, I actually enjoy the free form punctuation and grammar.... We've got some fun "alternatives" here already in Brian B. our fearless laplander, Franklin and the Trinis, etc.

I was just reading somwhere that creativity is thought to be greater permeability between areas of the brain that are usually carefully isolated from each other. I suspect you might enhance that by being open to unusual "patterns"for your neurons to play with.

I've been missing "batch talk" on here so I'll go into some of what I've been up to. I'll even stay "on topic" with red.

Copper Ruby

After reading the Glafo paper posted here on cutting the copper content of rubies way down by using antimony, and looking at Hugh's post from way back on his Penland "strikes in the annealer" copper ruby, I made an experimental blend to try for copper ruby lite. I have some memory I already posted this but I'll go again in case not.


Melting & batching at 2200F

By weight

sand - 100
soda ash - 39
Lime - 8.5
strontium carbonate - 7
zinc - 3
black tin - 1
Borax 5 mol - 13
Lithium Carbonate - 0.7
Antimony - 0.22
sodium tripolyphosphate - 1
copper carbonate - 0.7

Percentages

SiO2 - 66.72
Na2O - 17.45
LiO - 0.19
CaO - 4.33
SrO - 3.3
Zn - 2.01
Sn - .67
B2O3 - 4.25
P2O5 - 0.39
Sb2O5 - .15
Cu - 0.34

How it works:

It comes out of the pot clear. It needs to be cooled to where it shows almost no color from heat at some point in the process or it will not strike. I've been casing it or using it by itself so I'm cooling it after I have enough color on the stick for what I'm doing. It will still be clear. Go ahead and case it or whatever else to finish up. It will go into the annealer pretty much clear with the strike beginning slightly in a few spots. It strikes in the annealer. It's a lot of fun to peek in there now and again and watch it gain color. About 2-3 hours at 940-950F will get you cherry red in something about 4-5 mm thick. If it goes too long in the annealer it will eventually get a bit of brown to it, in my stuff about 4-5 hours in the annealer brings some brown tinges.

Problems yet to be solved:

Melting it in my wire melter, the atmosphere in the melter will oxidise the top few inches of glass enough to prevent striking by the time it fines out. It's a reducing glass so you have to just drop the viscosity of the glass and wait for the bubs to rise to fine it. I put a ton of borax in it to drop the viscosity (seemed safer than using fluorine for viscosity drop in a wire melter and surprisingly few cords) but it still needs 10-12 hours to fine.
As a temporary fix,I've been gathering it out as soon as it's melted and fined a little, then remelting that cullet in the glory in small pots where I can hold a reducing atmosphere on it. I've also been using it as-is with the tiny bubs in it.
I would imagine you could use some less exotic phosphorous like bone ash and substitute whatever ingredients for what you have on hand. You could also just add the copper tin phosphorous and antimony to whatever unoxidised batch you use. You'll probably have to adjust the expansion, I melted it in my underpowered melter and it wants a 91 E&T number for that particular furnace. Next experiments on this will play with decreasing copper and tin content to see what it does for color and striking times. I would like it to take much longer to strike so I could put away more in the annealer before it had to be turned down. Maybe add some silver too like that old Penland copper ruby recipe posted way back. The mention here on silicon carbide reminded me that I wanted to try adding enough s.c. to get a little foaming to maybe promote better fining, but I'm thinking that even if the bubs are bigger there's still not enough oxygen in them for a fast rise.

Considering our plummeting dolar value vs. gold I don't see myself trying anything with gold any time soon. I did try some melts like that old recipe for neodymium selenium ruby but no good results with it.

dave nice post .. got to sleep.. will hit you later ....thanx.. was clear not light blue green pre strike..
.too cool ...i'm out ..woof koehler
13 lbs borax that's alot .....

[Franklin Sankar]

Who is this masked man.?
Franklin

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Franklin Sankar
Who is this masked man.?
Franklin

hello franklin .. hows life ..just getting going today slow brain ..thinking want to run incognito for a while... see what group is about ..new to all this computer stuff ..as far as the glass goes.. is my wife is my life as lou reed would say.. maybe i guess i just don't know ....master apprentice relationship 70's ..started off sweeping floors ended up sitting second bench when master worked .hard school .
old school ..experience as the educator..not really into this name dropping game.. too much hype these days.. the old school traditions are gone.. hurts my heart ..thus i sit up on my 19 acres at lat 64"54'n.. 148"16w'long
.shop 72 ft from cabin..working solo .. making stuff for community..bunch of old hippies... van goeh said
"would rather my work hang on the walls of dirt floored hovels then in the halls of palaces" "basicasly my attitude also .work for the people..
1000's of dollars for a piece of glass while people are starving in the world.. just can't get my head around that ..don;t worrie my shrink says i got a problem too ... work has become almost intuitive at this point.. experience will do that to a soul if given the time and space ..spoiled glassman ..
how you melting ..having fun ..propane or N G please don't tell me electric melt ..old school build your own furnace.. melt .. go to work ..melt some more ..sleep later ..welll back to other mail boxes
chat you later post it they will come ..
.. if any of you want go to corning archives look up independent glass blower publication .. david gruening 1996 .. he published an issue of me and my furnace design..is fun article ..lotz of photos don't want to make it too easy for you guys.. got to want it ....old school can't buy this stuff " an education can not be bought nor sold ..must be earned" ,,,some old greek guy

..big bad woof there ..peace out ..
now about your reds ..what ya got.. give it up ..

[Jordan Kube]

If you're new to the computer stuff, check out google earth.

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Jordan Kube
If you're new to the computer stuff, check out google earth.


lucky if i can post and email at this point ..
.seriouse old school ..paper and pencils
straight tools ..woof... koehler ...

[Larry Cazes]

Woof? Translation please :)

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Larry Cazes
Woof? Translation please :)


2 old sayings.. one contemporary.. one my own ..

looses a little in translation...

you do not understand ...... one
the totality of fate ..

the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy ...... two
will set you free

if you do not like the words i write .....four
please do not read them ..

the third one ...private
between me and the glass



got strange sense of humor

a peculiar
process
for point
presentation ..

woof ..koehler
know to blow ...
peace out thanx for asking

about your reds now please ..?

[David Patchen]

He's in Alaska--explains the cabin fever ;)

I'm at 37°47'11"N 122°27'53"W

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by David Patchen
He's in Alaska--explains the cabin fever ;)

I'm at 37°47'11"N 122°27'53"W

furnace fever..stone cold shop ..
furnace was,..-51 below zero .
last time checked ..pyrometer bottomed out .
.
hmmm ... more mandarin for you ..
i was a gentleman last time ..
woof...be advised.. ..koehler

about your reds now.. Ag...?
aqua regia ...purple of caucus
what ya got ..?

posted 2 of mine ...
need beta
to give you gold ..

[Pete VanderLaan]

Silicon metal would work way better as the reducing agent over silicon carbide but Stannous oxide is better yet. Better to not make the base batch with nitrates or suphates in it in the first place. That would apply to copper, cad/sulpho/sel and gold batches as well. You would also need selenium in the gold batch plus a fixed amount of lead unless you are willing to put up with anemic color. Higher potassium/zinc glasses yield better reds and clean calcium is really important.

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Pete VanderLaan
Silicon metal would work way better as the reducing agent over silicon carbide but Stannous oxide is better yet. Better to not make the base batch with nitrates or suphates in it in the first place. That would apply to copper, cad/sulpho/sel and gold batches as well. You would also need selenium in the gold batch plus a fixed amount of lead unless you are willing to put up with anemic color. Higher potassium/zinc glasses yield better reds and clean calcium is really important.

there we go.. thanx will sleep on it ..see what the sub concise can come up with ..zinc has the lights flashing ..see if the squirels will let me near the batch book box ..they can be short tempered this time of year ..think they get a buzz off the cad sulf
stains on the pages ...little nut robbers ...later ..
woof.. the one in the north ..koehler

[John Teeter]

I might have some pure silicon metal to donate to the color mixing class ;) If we want to try to experiment a little?

john

[Brian Graham]

I get silicon from Marietta Minerals Processing (http://www.mariettaminerals.com/)

I have used it successfully to make opaque red. SiC works as well. My pot is so small, I don't seem to have a bubble problem with the SiC.

[Pete VanderLaan]

I think you need a more stubborn reducing agent to make reds that really last. I did use SIC back when I was a kid and it did work but was fleeting. I prefer tin based purely on experience. I still have some black tin for sale from that bulk purchase I made of it back in the winter at $16.00lb.

We could always try the silicon metal if it is fine enough mesh.

[Bruce Cobb]

Ruby fun...fenton cullet... no longer make batch...too many problems...goblets, decanters, bowls, orbs...right, keep that temp down or it foams...apprenticed 70's...Pairpoint...really,really old school...moved north to NH '80...knew DG of TIG fame, played fiddles at Sunapee Fair..great guy...invested pot furnace, side-fired, Ransome venturi w/ Gib head...hi pres propane...30 psi for melts...shop 20-25 feet from house...plenty of snow...got to go
x-c skiing...life is good...later

[Brian Graham]

The only way I was ever able to make copper ruby was with black tin. For hematinone red, I have best luck with the SiC or Si.

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by John Teeter
I might have some pure silicon metal to donate to the color mixing class ;) If we want to try to experiment a little?

john

morning john .. hows life. amazing what 5 hrs sleep can do..first cup of coffee roll up a smoke and ponder the possibilities ..thanx for offer of sil metal. to be honest was not a metallic compound we had on shelf ..had 86 others though ..so will have to book it up do some research.. the numbers thing ..if you haven't figured it out yet this man is not an alfred trained glass chemist.. learned in front of the chemicals .. experience as the educator . lots of trial and error work .. if melt didn't get where it was intended to go .. would just consider the spy hole and what was being lost in melt and deal with ..usually got to the place we needed it to be ....oh yea dave.. sodium antimoniate for opals don't take much.. old enamel makers opacifier ...check it out.. di cal phos ..works less well ..just a quicky now.. mail box is full haven't even seen the bottom yet ..so process my commitments back in awhile..
been editing posts .. might want to run the entire thread again.. see where the beta has morphed.. this morning ..what can i say.. old school paper and pencils.. write as fast as one can.. get in the flow of the words .. kerawackin type writting .. editors get furstrated too so deal with it ..is my style .. woof hard to teach old dog new tricks.. have learned that if you push them old dogs too hard they cop an attitude and poop on your pourch ..and piss on your wood pile.. thus said have fun.. work hotter .remember the traditions ..got to learn it to earn it ...woof the one in the north ..koehler ..

ru guo ni bu hsi huan wo de hsieh
dzwo feng ge jiou ching bie
#4

woof ..now where's that poddle ..

pete thanx for beta
makes my head hurt
will process later ..
an apperciative
type of woof ..

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Bruce Cobb
Ruby fun...fenton cullet... no longer make batch...too many problems...goblets, decanters, bowls, orbs...right, keep that temp down or it foams...apprenticed 70's...Pairpoint...really,really old school...moved north to NH '80...knew DG of TIG fame, played fiddles at Sunapee Fair..great guy...invested pot furnace, side-fired, Ransome venturi w/ Gib head...hi pres propane...30 psi for melts...shop 20-25 feet from house...plenty of snow...got to go
x-c skiing...life is good...later

morning bruce ..nice to meet a fellow gas guzzlier
venturi ...?why no forced air ..?straight shot venturi or do you have 90" bend in system ...90 bend slows the flow thus the heat .. ..if you want email me will send you my furnace and burner design .. preheated forced air simple set up.. offer my air at about 400 degrees to combustion.. most of atmosphere of this planet is nitrogen which doesn't crack till 800 degrees ..so if you preheat it you won't be robbing your furnace of so much heat to crack that nit ..has saved a couple of truck loads of goose juice over the years ..i'm jealouse ..you only have to commute 25 feet to work ...my commute is 3 times that long ..some times takes an hour or two to make the trip ...traffic and all ...later fiddler.. a pin head too .. been known to ski the steep and the deep on pins .. turn or die club .... ...pleasure to meet you ..woof ...koehler
like your writing style ..

[Franklin Sankar]

Ok masked man. I am soaking it all up so pls give me some more stories about the good old days. I love a good story.
Are you saying that when you get to coe 120 the glass stays workable for a longer time? or was it your formula at coe120.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Franklin
grasshopper
ps I wonder if you are really Pete on some kind of out of body experiment.

[Dave Bross]

Paul,
How much sodium antimonate exactly?
Should I assume you're always working in 50 pound batches?

I've been trying to get a phosphate opal without the "texture" for a while now. The answer turned out to be mainly in the modifiers.

You don't use more than 3% calcium, 5% strontium, or 9.5% barium while using at least .4 - 1%, but not more than 2% zinc to help retard the formation of the dreaded surface crystals, and 2-5.5% phosphorus.


I (finally!!!) found all this in an old Corning patent, US patent # 4536480. I've done some melts with the calcium, strontium, zinc and phosphorus (no barium) in those ranges and it works beautifully in terms of no surface ugliness and the usual great beauty of phosphate opal.

The patent also suggests 1.5% fluorine to get a little apetite cryatalization going, but as a wire melter kind of guy I left that alone, and I'm quite happy with the opal I got without it. a bit of reading between the lines suggests you will do fine without the fluorine, making...

"glasses wherein the opal phase is essentially non-crystaline; i.e., the opacity results from the presence of immiscible glass phases"

After all those melts of "sandpaper" phosphate opal I think I'll pass on any kind of crystals in my phosphate melt.

Obviously, you would have to batch this one from scratch because no stock batch goes that low in all those modifiers.

I like sodium tripolyphosphate for a phosphorous source. It's pretty common at chemical suppliers, it's used in a lot of cleaning formulations.

Fenton ruby cullet is/was a great red, but there's a very good chance it will sleep with the dinosaurs soon. I heard Fenton got a couple years of life breathed back into them from a huge in-rush of orders when they announced their closing, but is that just postponing the inevitable?

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Franklin Sankar
Ok masked man. I am soaking it all up so pls give me some more stories about the good old days. I love a good story.
Are you saying that when you get to coe 120 the glass stays workable for a longer time? or was it your formula at coe120.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Franklin
grasshopper
ps I wonder if you are really Pete on some kind of out of body experiment.

franklin .. need data .. how you melt what you melt please .. propane N G where do you find your reds ..
my thoughts about glass workability are as follows.. throw more metal in the melt barium zinc fluxes
we were running high percent soda .. this added to workability also .. didn't run our numbers often.. if remember correctly came in at 114 and 116 didn't really have to deal with coe we were just working large furnaces of single colour some times 2 furnaces ...if there was compatibility problem just adjusted borax.. remember this was old school .. not alot of alfred phd candidates in our shop ..don't remember any thing exploding due to stress.. so we were doing some thing right ..yea it's all about the fluxes ..thinking the fluxes and soda content were reason for long.workability .. please don't make me get the books out.. it has been a while ...remember this is all long ago info.. basically just melting cullett these days .. DEC bent me over the barrel and flat out told me if i start melting from scratch again .. welll might as well go back to china and not come home ..so cullett melting it is.. kugler and bullseye for colours only by products now are co2 and water ..good glass blower ..bad DEC..what is your glass comp please .. ..toss me your batch.. will look at later .. when the new moon comes out ..already had to chase the squirrels out of storage shed.. get books out.. chasing sodium antimony for another..
been a while since these nureral nets have been on line ..might take a while to find pathways ..do you have copy modern glass practice scholes well put it under your pillow and sleep on it if you do.. is dry reading but the word is in there ...
it's all there .. my copie looks like some thing out of a kindergarden class ..writing all over the pages in a few different languages good luck ..well send me info.. will be better able to see what your glass looks like inside ..please remember my work was limited to one basic glass composition .. these new batches are peculiar to say the least .. hesitant to open them up and see what's happening in them..
squirrel poop is the answer ...like your style work hotter ..woof koehler ....
no franklin i am me... incognito...eat molten glass

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Dave Bross
Paul,
How much sodium antimonate exactly?
Should I assume you're always working in 50 pound batches?

I've been trying to get a phosphate opal without the "texture" for a while now. The answer turned out to be mainly in the modifiers.

You don't use more than 3% calcium, 5% strontium, or 9.5% barium while using at least .4 - 1%, but not more than 2% zinc to help retard the formation of the dreaded surface crystals, and 2-5.5% phosphorus.


I (finally!!!) found all this in an old Corning patent, US patent # 4536480. I've done some melts with the calcium, strontium, zinc and phosphorus (no barium) in those ranges and it works beautifully in terms of no surface ugliness and the usual great beauty of phosphate opal.

The patent also suggests 1.5% fluorine to get a little apetite cryatalization going, but as a wire melter kind of guy I left that alone, and I'm quite happy with the opal I got without it. a bit of reading between the lines suggests you will do fine without the fluorine, making...

"glasses wherein the opal phase is essentially non-crystaline; i.e., the opacity results from the presence of immiscible glass phases"

After all those melts of "sandpaper" phosphate opal I think I'll pass on any kind of crystals in my phosphate melt.

Obviously, you would have to batch this one from scratch because no stock batch goes that low in all those modifiers.

I like sodium tripolyphosphate for a phosphorous source. It's pretty common at chemical suppliers, it's used in a lot of cleaning formulations.

Fenton ruby cullet is/was a great red, but there's a very good chance it will sleep with the dinosaurs soon. I heard Fenton got a couple years of life breathed back into them from a huge in-rush of orders when they announced their closing, but is that just postponing the inevitable?


dave .. good morning ..lotz of numbers.. what base batch these numbers ..soda lime top 3.. ingredents.please . sand soda lime ..would like to see how these percentages were calculated in relation to original glass ..not all glasses are calculated equally ..some glasses more equal than others .. who knew orwell was a glass blower ..opal was not major glass in shop... ran tests small melts
got solid results . problem having hard time putting finger on notes ..was not standard melt so not filed in memory ..will look deeper later ..might be good time to break out wyles and research.. compare theories later...zinc added lb of zink to original batch listing ..woops can't remember all of it off head top .. boy this stuff takes me back ..
the zinc was bottom shelf near the barium .. close to door ...enjoying your research ..why so much borax in your batch ..just curious ..why did you go that direction ..was your comp or alfred ..for some reason intuition has me thinking small bubbles might be borax related just a feeling ...no offence intended ..just free flowing thought ..thanx for post . more thoughts to ponder.. research sod.ant.
bounce some thoughts off me.. might knock some thing loose ..this is just too much fun . thanx guys
flux it ....koehler ...woof ..the one in the north ..
88 lbs batches always ..affirmitive 50 lbs sand batches ...total weight 87 -89 lbs

[Franklin Sankar]

Paul I must apologize to you for not introducing myself properly. Like you, I live on another part on this Earth not , not the USA but not far from the ocean . My experience in glass is a little above zero. I just sit here on the board an soak up everything like a sponge because I love making glass and have no one else where I live who I can talk to about glass. If you think you are isolated think Robinson Crusoe of the glass world and you find me.
So pls forgive me , I will try to control my curiosity and questions to you, so maybe someone else can tell me what is DEC???

Franklin

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Franklin Sankar
Paul I must apologize to you for not introducing myself properly. Like you, I live on another part on this Earth not , not the USA but not far from the ocean . My experience in glass is a little above zero. I just sit here on the board an soak up everything like a sponge because I love making glass and have no one else where I live who I can talk to about glass. If you think you are isolated think Robinson Crusoe of the glass world and you find me.
So pls forgive me , I will try to control my curiosity and questions to you, so maybe someone else can tell me what is DEC???

Franklin

bring it dude ...what ya got ..no problems ..life is fair ..do you have a volley ball named wilson ...
hope you caught that one ..what about your reds ..how are you melting ..toss some thing out there ..will take a swing at it ..sent you pm ..will have to yard out map look at Trinidad ...have fun ..it's only glass ..woof ....koehler ..the one in the north ..peace out ...dept. of enviromental conservation ..

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally posted by Franklin Sankar
ps I wonder if you are really Pete on some kind of out of body experiment.


*************
No, he most definitely is not. James Joyce is a more likely suspect.

[Wes Hunting]

I was thinking more along the lines of Hunter S. Thompson.

[Rosanna Gusler]

heh. fear and loathing on craftweb. rosanna

[Donald Feser]

james joyce for sure!

[Franklin Sankar]

This one??????
James Augustine Aloysius Joyce (Irish Séamus Seoighe; 2 February 1882 – 13 January 1941) was an Irish expatriate writer, widely considered to be one of the most influential writers of the 20th century.
OR

Hunter Stockton Thompson (July 18, 1937 – February 20, 2005) was an American journalist and author, famous for his novel Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. He is credited as the creator of Gonzo journalism, a style of reporting where reporters involve themselves in the action to such a degree that they become the central figures of their stories.

Franklin
the mystery is killing me.

[Dave Bross]

My favorite part of Fear and Loathing was Ralph Steadman's artwork. I've been a big fan ever since I first saw Steadman's stuff in a book on auto safety when I was about 10 years old. People worry about you when you mention that you like his artwork.

So, it's back to batch talk...

Paul, when you say 88 pound batches, I'm guessing you're saying using 50 pounds of sand? I'm sort of used to referring to a batch quantity based on how much sand. Tighten me up if I'm guessing incorrectly here. My standard there is 100# of sand as a starting point, so if I say 100 pound batch I mean a batch with 100 pounds of sand.

I only use huge borax additions when I want a massive viscosity drop, to eat up something that is cranky about dissolving in the melt, or in smaller amounts to up the "hang time" (length of working time) of a glass. I also get in trouble sometimes because on paper borax seems to make very little change in expansion, the boron and soda seeming to cancel each others effect on expansion. The viscosity change due to the borax has to be compensated for by using a very different calculated expansion glass to match, or changing the calculated expansion of the heavy borax glass to match. An example being when I was first messing with the phosphates I was using even larger amounts of borax and zinc to lower the viscosity. I had to change the calculated expansion of that high borax/zinc glass to down in the mid eighties to match a "96" calculated glass of more normal composition. That high zinc/borax stuff would fine almost immediately after it cooked off because it was so thin, and being a phosphate, the first few strikes tightened it right up too where it worked (almost) normally. All phosphates stiffen up a lot with each strike. I melted it in cheap assay pots so the extreme low viscosity of the glass could go ahead and eat them up and the glass still looked fine because it was an opal, and no great loss on the limited pot life.

Top three ingredients as requested...

sand 100, soda 31.5, lime 0

The top three only begins to tell the story, also in there is 4 pounds lithium carbonate, 6 pounds of zinc, 9 pounds of strontium and a pound of potassium nitrate,...all of which have a radical effect on both expansion and viscosity.
The next area for experiments here will be in seeing how much of the expensive stuff like nitrates and zinc nitrate are absolutely necessary, and trying more of the less expensive modifiers like calcium. I don't melt or batch up 100 pounds at a time, but use that "100# sand" standard to do all my figuring.

The little bubs seem to relate to how much oxidiser mostly, I'm thinking not enough oxygen in the bubbles to rise quickly, so no oxidiser at all in reducing glass becomes a struggle. There is more to it than that, the high strontium melts fine faster than most, so there is input there from other areas too. I'm thinking about the effects of modifiers a lot more these days....

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Wes Hunting
I was thinking more along the lines of Hunter S. Thompson.


when the going gets tough the weird turn pro ..


to weird to live to rare to die ..


na xie tong xiao yi shi chang biao wei xiao
#5

oh guys if you only knew ....woof
koehler ..

some times take handle raoul duke .
dave.
steadman couldn't hold his liquor
modifers will set you free ..
lower viscoity with heat not chemicals
top fired propane rocks ..heat right now

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Dave Bross
My favorite part of Fear and Loathing was Ralph Steadman's artwork. I've been a big fan ever since I first saw Steadman's stuff in a book on auto safety when I was about 10 years old. People worry about you when you mention that you like his artwork.

So, it's back to batch talk...

Paul, when you say 88 pound batches, I'm guessing you're saying using 50 pounds of sand? I'm sort of used to referring to a batch quantity based on how much sand. Tighten me up if I'm guessing incorrectly here. My standard there is 100# of sand as a starting point, so if I say 100 pound batch I mean a batch with 100 pounds of sand.

I only use huge borax additions when I want a massive viscosity drop, to eat up something that is cranky about dissolving in the melt, or in smaller amounts to up the "hang time" (length of working time) of a glass. I also get in trouble sometimes because on paper borax seems to make very little change in expansion, the boron and soda seeming to cancel each others effect on expansion. The viscosity change due to the borax has to be compensated for by using a very different calculated expansion glass to match, or changing the calculated expansion of the heavy borax glass to match. An example being when I was first messing with the phosphates I was using even larger amounts of borax and zinc to lower the viscosity. I had to change the calculated expansion of that high borax/zinc glass to down in the mid eighties to match a "96" calculated glass of more normal composition. That high zinc/borax stuff would fine almost immediately after it cooked off because it was so thin, and being a phosphate, the first few strikes tightened it right up too where it worked (almost) normally. All phosphates stiffen up a lot with each strike. I melted it in cheap assay pots so the extreme low viscosity of the glass could go ahead and eat them up and the glass still looked fine because it was an opal, and no great loss on the limited pot life.

Top three ingredients as requested...

sand 100, soda 31.5, lime 0

The top three only begins to tell the story, also in there is 4 pounds lithium carbonate, 6 pounds of zinc, 9 pounds of strontium and a pound of potassium nitrate,...all of which have a radical effect on both expansion and viscosity.
The next area for experiments here will be in seeing how much of the expensive stuff like nitrates and zinc nitrate are absolutely necessary, and trying more of the less expensive modifiers like calcium. I don't melt or batch up 100 pounds at a time, but use that "100# sand" standard to do all my figuring.

The little bubs seem to relate to how much oxidiser mostly, I'm thinking not enough oxygen in the bubbles to rise quickly, so no oxidiser at all in reducing glass becomes a struggle. There is more to it than that, the high strontium melts fine faster than most, so there is input there from other areas too. I'm thinking about the effects of modifiers a lot more these days....

hard intel target rich environment for study.. read quickly .. will take the evening to process .. hope one of you guys trys a melt of my comp.. is fun stuff was told softer than half lead RIT batch 70's.. ..what i liked about glass was it's simplicity.. ..reduce some of bottom 4 modifiers and glass good for reduction "stuff".. kinda of one batch fits all ...of what we needed it to do ..please read top post this thread .. info has morphed .... furnaces in shop warming up -07 today only 2197 degrees to go ..talk about slow preheats.. next month melt.. ..maybe stack up small 20 lb pot and melt sil car copper ruby.. just to make sure i'm still blowing on the right end of the pipe.. if you get my drift ..it has been a while ..see if they are making a different type of super sil these days ..lotz has changed.. guess when you go off the grid for a few decades .. the info changes .. or the perception to said info does ...anyway yea fear and loathing in front of the furnace door ..
woof ...the one in the north koehler thanx for beta dave will process and post up later
peace out ..mix it they will melt it ...

is best to start "storie" at beginning
ie sand soda lime ...
kinda first chapter ..
every thing starts in the beginning


all right 4am thinking time..melt has 2 compoents ..the chem stuff and the physical .. some time the chem does what it does in the chemical play ground fine,. yet does not do what needs to be done for the physical part of the glass melt ..ie makes the chemical bonds.. but does not encorage gases to escape melt or continues to produce gases past the point you want them. being produced .. little bubbles.. personally would 86 lotx of borax and find workable substitute for flux.. think metal .. each glass unique .. what ever works for you..would have to take your glass completely apart ..and rearrange would look nothing like original batch when i got done with .. ....my definition of the physical part of melt is.. when you raise temp.. lower viscosity with heat.. and draw last bubbles from glass ..the plane...fineing ..of the glass.. if your chems are still producing gas at this point you have problem .. ..two different games being played in the pot .. ..this is big picture thought .from my simple perspective ..at some pt you got to stop producing bubbles to get them all out ..does this make any sense ..lotz of borax??...
well "unlimmited north american sled dog racing championship" this week end ..so shutting computer down for a few load up thread will check you later in early morning hrs ... go run with the big dogs..
....moose turds should help cure finning problems with your red .. later thanx for your thoughts .....woof ...koehler ..16 dogs unlimited.. big fun ..
.

[Donald Feser]

Joyce,- Finnigens Wake.

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Donald Feser
Joyce,- Finnigens Wake.


finnigen's furnace ...woof

[John Van Koningsveld]

I don't know...I started to understand Finnegan's Wake at one point....

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by John Van Koningsveld
I don't know...I started to understand Finnegan's Wake at one point....


that book will put cords in your glass....

click much please excuse double post

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Paul Koehler
that book will put cords in your glass..


make your reds turn green

[Franklin Sankar]

I love this masked man. I hope I dont get into trouble but I hope Pete will bail me out.

lets see what he thinks of this one.
sand 100 kilos
red lead 30
potash 30
borax 15
tin oxide 5
copper oxide 2.5
iron oxide 0.5
manganese dioxide 2.5

source...an old book maybe old like he is.
would you prefer the potassium bitartrate? whatever that is???
Franklin

:D :D :D :confused:

[Paul Koehler]

Originally posted by Franklin Sankar
I love this masked man. I hope I dont get into trouble but I hope Pete will bail me out.

lets see what he thinks of this one.
sand 100 kilos
red lead 30
potash 30
borax 15
tin oxide 5
copper oxide 2.5
iron oxide 0.5
manganese dioxide 2.5

source...an old book maybe old like he is.
would you prefer the potassium bitartrate? whatever that is???
Franklin

:D :D :D :confused:

we're not in kansas any more ...well ain't no soda lime glass ..that's an obvious ..looks soft off jump st ..wow what comes out the spy hole of your furnace melting this ..propane melt ..?do you loose lots to combustion ..boggle my brain ..know little or nothing about lead glasses .half lead ..all right see that with the pot ash..bitart ..reduction ..is this old european batch aust or german ..?
lead was never my cup of tea ..toss it out there to Kekick.. RIT circa 1975.. he was a lead head might be able to chat you up on the particulars of your glass better than this man ..have feeling with some of these soda lime glasses that are being tossed out here ..that there are easier roads to get where they are heading ..some of these new glasses are so complicated when they don't really need to be ..guess is new age chem..
your glass is in entirely different class of composition then my experience .. again will sleep on.. contemplate on the other side ..fun stuff ..what book please
.RIT batch book 1975 ?just a thought.. imagine you can melt your batch at a lower temp ..thought my junk had lotz of metal in it ..no think i'll stay with higher soda ..seldom even opened the big bucket of lead ..negative vibes of that material..
maybe a little lithium if was feeling in manic melting mode ..you're a brave man ..again why did you go down this road ..got local lead source ..hey what ever gets you on the tools ..thanx for beta will ponder . when does this one strike ..at the furnace door quick .. does strike between gathers... thinking it strikes quick ..
what is your furnace atmosphere ..fuel source please .. ,,. thanx ...koehler ..not much of a woof on this one ..a lead head in trinidad ..too cool ..
..
looks soft almost as soft as mine ..designed my glass to feel like a half lead ..with out the lead..
lazy glass blower old school..this glass today like working rocks. no joy.. or less any way ..schmidt lynggand.. thankyou

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally posted by Franklin Sankar
but I hope Pete will bail me out.

Franklin



**************
No, I won't. I cannot do stream of conciousness.

[Franklin Sankar]

Ok just pulling your leg. I dont melt it just wanted to google your brain. And you hit the nail on the head. I Wanted to know how it compares with what you are using or used in the past. When I look at the Murano video on utube their glass seem to stay workable forever . Source from Finn Lynggard & Wilhelm Schmidt . Smart fellows whoever they are.
I have a wire melter so I cant do much high temp stuff. 2175F max. and that is why I cant join in your experience. I used batch a few times and it ate my elements compared with the longer life I get with cullet. Maybe the new chemistry was adopted for wires. Dave and Pete can say more about that.

Its a pity we have to stay away from lead.
All the good stuff is bad for you.
I wonder how Corning get away with melting leaded glass?

Wonderful thread Pete, I just looked up stream of conciousness. It took me on a road I have not been before. Thanks.
Franklin

[Paul Koehler]

Ok just pulling your leg. I dont melt it just wanted to google your brain. And you hit the nail on the head. I Wanted to know how it compares with what you are using or used in the past. When I look at the Murano video on utube their glass seem to stay workable forever . Source from Finn Lynggard & Wilhelm Schmidt . Smart fellows whoever they are.
I have a wire melter so I cant do much high temp stuff. 2175F max. and that is why I cant join in your experience. I used batch a few times and it ate my elements compared with the longer life I get with cullet. Maybe the new chemistry was adopted for wires. Dave and Pete can say more about that.

Its a pity we have to stay away from lead.
All the good stuff is bad for you.
I wonder how Corning get away with melting leaded glass?

Wonderful thread Pete, I just looked up stream of conciousness. It took me on a road I have not been before. Thanks.
Franklin..

franklin my heart is heavy...my friends are dying in Lhasa.. not in mood to chat tonight ..might be going to china tuesday ..pray for Tibet..
monks against machine guns ////WHY/////

[Paul Koehler]

**************
No, I won't. I cannot do stream of conciousness.

pete what is there to do ..just jump in ..see where it takes you ..no big thing ..monks against machine guns ..pray for Tibet ////why /////

franklin hit the fact didn't he... you melt electric ...woof... koehler .
different chemestry !!.different physics...ie physical part of melt ..

[Paul Koehler]

[QUOTE=Paul Koehler;71035]hard intel target rich environment for study.. read quickly .. will take the evening to process .. hope one of you guys trys a melt of my comp.. is fun stuff was told softer than half lead RIT batch 70's.. ..what i liked about glass was it's simplicity.. ..remove bottom 4 modifiers and glass good for reduction "stuff".. kinda of one batch fits all ...of what we needed it to do ..please read top post this thread info has morphed .... furnaces in shop warming up -07 today only 2197 degrees to go talk about slow preheats.. next month melt.. ..maybe stack up small 20 lb pot and melt sil car copper ruby.. just to make sure i'm still blowing on the right end of the pipe if you get my drift ..it has been a while ..see if they are making a different type of super sil these days ..lotz has changed.. guess when you go off the grid for a few decades .. the info changes or the perception to said info does ...anyway yea fear and loathing in front of the furnace door ..
woof ...thee one in the north koehler thanx for beta dave will process and post up later
peace out ..mix it they will melt it ...

is best to start "storie" at beginning
ie sand soda lime ...
kinda first chapter ..
every thing starts in the beginning


all right 4am thinking time..melt has 2 compoents ..the chem stuff and the physical .. some time the chem does what it does in the chemical play ground fine, yet does not do what needs to be done for the physical part of the glass melt ..ie makes the chemical bonds.. but does not encorage gases to escape melt or continues to produce gases past the point you want them. being produced .. little bubbles.. personally would 86 lotx of borax and find workable substitute for flux think metal .. each glass unique .. what ever works for you..would have to take your glass completely apart ..and rearrange would look nothing like original batch when i got done with .. ....my definition of the physical part of melt is when you raise temp lower viscosity and draw last bubbles from glass ..the plane...fineing ..of the glass.. if your chems are still producing gas at this point you have problem .. ..two different games being played in the pot .. ..this is big picture thought .from my simple perspective ..at some pt you got to stop producing bubbles to get them all out ..does this make any sense ..lotz of borax??... well unlimited
north american sled dog racing championship this week end ..so shutting computer down for a few load up thread will check you later in early morning hrs ... go run with the big dogs..
....moose turds should help cure finning problems with your red .. later thanx for your thoughts .....woof ...koehler ..16 dogs unlimited.. big fun ..
.[/QUOTE

OK hit the thought ... change viscosity with heat not chemicals bingo
your problem solved ..melt lower.. till ready for viscoity change ..that simple ..physical not chemical

i go now .Tibet..my friends are dying ..got to make effort ..back some day.. got link book marked..later ..dave enjoyed chatting with you ..
.
pray for Tibet ...taught me what i learned ...seriouse old school
woof ... koehler ...monks against machine guns ....//////why/////

[Paul Koehler]

pete what is there to do ..just jump in ..see where it takes you ..no big thing ..monks against machine guns ..pray for Tibet ////why /////

//////////////////////////////////////////////

last post this thread

OLDUVAI CLIFF...google this .......Woof ...koehler..... monks against machine guns //////why//////


////////////////////////////////////////////////
there will be a quiz when i get back ..if............... would some one please make a copy this thread for my records ...


thanx for reading my words ..peace out ..Paul Koehler master

[Franklin Sankar]

So he is gone and left us just like the masked man. Itold you so.
Bi
Franklin

[Terry Craig]

ok here's my guess.....Andy bellici? if it is you, i heard you where dead, could it be?
terry

[Franklin Sankar]

Ah ha a friend of Terry. Well that explains it.
Yu want to no what eh?
Franklin

[Pete VanderLaan]

That definitely isn't Andy.

[Terry Craig]

you don't think so? do you know where he (andy) is?
could it be mark p.?
just my guess
terry

[Mark Halva]

Pete,
Do you know who we are dealing with? I doubt it is the return of Henry in disquise. Hopper, Beidham? Not sure but this is taking an intersting turn. Way too interesting turn!

[Pete VanderLaan]

If it is pulling my leg, it's incredibly well done. I certainly don't recognize the name. I do know of a guy in Alaska who did remarkable work on calculating glass expansions and formulations and could crack any spreadsheet and make it work. He was an acquaintance of the Tarts and she always wanted me to get together with him.

He seems to know a fair bit of the presentation chemistry and so I don't think it to be Henry. I don't handle the bursts of thought well since they are not really yielding up anything useful to anyone who doesn't already understand the material in the first place. That kind of elitism is not useful to a board like this. The point is information dissemination. I would be seriously unhappy if we reverted to this kind of communication. It's hard enough in the King's English.

[Mark Halva]

I am not sure if it is elitism or just marking his territory. It's one of those things like me checking this board daily, it's something, some of us do. I don't mind the randomness, reminds me abit of Brian.
Sidebar, Where is Henry and how can we convince him to return his input, I actually miss his remarks. I met him in 1990, drunk off my butt,(Pilchuck Party Night) and got enough courage to speak to him and as with Henry he put me in my place. But I have always respected his knowledge. I would like to see him back on board. Any chance of that happening?
Mark

[Cecil McKenzie]

Since I had been a subscriber to Dave Gruenigs Independent Glassblower Newsletter since its beginning I thought that I might be able to crack this mystery. After finally finding my old copies I learned that my subscription had expired during the middle of the year that "Paul" mentions being featured that being 1996. Not to be detered I called the Rakow Library and had Beth search the two issues remaining from 1996 for reference to either Paul Koehler or top fired venturi furnaces.
She assured me that there was nothing obvious of that nature. So "Paul" is uncertain of the dates or Beth is in kahoots with "Paul" She did seem interested in my questions.
Thinking that "Paul"s dates were off I perused the other issues I had and noticed the summer fall issue had a picture of a furnace by a Howard Fulmer and several pictures of a project in Africa by an Anselm Croze. The project in Africa is an ongoing operation so I'm assuming Anselm is still there but stranger things have happened.
I remain in the dark and maybe someone can eliminate Howard and Anselm from the list of suspects. Still waiting for the rest of the story.

[Jordan Kube]

There's no mystery. Paul Koehler is an old glassblower hiding out in Fairbanks since who knows when. He's got the old school time based master approach to glass making in his head.

35 years = master regardless of skill.

I had a friend who set up shop in Fairbanks and went to talk to him. Said he was all secret squirrel about everything. The guy sent me a nasty message first thing for trying to help him out.

I wonder if he talks like he spells.

No Pete, this is not the guy Cynthia knows. I'd like to meet that guy too. People just wander off in Alaska sometimes. I know I'm looking forward to it when I go up next month. The best thing Alaska has going for it is it's stereotypes. Keeps people out. I'm not religious but for lack of a better term I'd call it God's country.

[Pete VanderLaan]

I am well aware of the complaint about you since he complained to me. Itt sort of reminds me of a cross between "Doc" in "Back to the future" and "Kramer" in Seinfeld.

As to Henry, I haven't heard hide nor hair of him in some time. I think the references recently to his failed moly furnace were quite sharp and pointed and those had to have hurt. Also, he was rather torn over the latest go round between various members of this board and GAS officials which I view as being as predictable as black Fly season in New Hampshire. Henry is up for a lifetime achievement award this year from GAS, which I think he deserves. His teaching has been a remarkable contribution even though the furnace was a genuine disaster.

[Dave Hilty]

When Paul first mentioned Independent Glassblower I had a vague recollection of a burly bearded guy with an armful of ornaments standing outside a snow-covered cabin. Went digging through my collection and there was the cover pix .

His date was off. It was Issue No. 50, June/July/Aug, 1998

"Alaska Adventure" Mountain Paul
Lots of photos and tips for the furnace build. He scrounged in dumpsters to find the materials to build the 14'x16' studio and spent a total of $87.00 to erect the building...

Reminds me of Josh Simpson's first studio in a shed/barn on rented property in Vermont while he lived in a tent.

[Franklin Sankar]

Ah the mystery is solved. Any idea how he learned to make glass in the wilderness? Must be one hell of an experiment. He must have tried all kind of crazy things. I find it fascinating to hear about how the glass movement grew and how people learned about glass by themselves. He offered to show us his issue maybe someone can show photos of a few pages.
Franklin

[Paul Koehler]

we're back ..

is there really a glass furnace
in the Potala palace
do monks melt much ..

[Franklin Sankar]

Yes and I was waiting patiently just like the monks do in the wilderness when the master is away.
So lets :chatter: some more. I hope your trip was a success. What words of wisdom do you have for us today? Is it still cold?
Franklin

[Paul Koehler]

first thought ..
people who gossip false hoods ..their words have no meaning other than to them selves .. none of the electric furnace people here have been any where near my shop, tradition will not permit this.. so secret squirrel stuff is a lie..perpertrated by those that know not .. old alchemist 14 century said "share with those that know .. those that know not.. share not" ..simple philosophy.. don't have much respect for people that buy glass furnaces and hire other glass blowers ,who do not build their own gear, to come up here and work.. they are a discredit to the trade ..artists not craftsman ..more about the money than the glass .. if they didn't have a check book ,they would be nowhere close to the material ..remember you can't buy tradition ..
when master turned me loose he told me ..don't go out and start a glass blowing school will just cheapen the traditions .. you are one of the last apprentices of the old school ..be very selective of who you choose as an apprentice for they area direct reflection of you as a glass bower and they will be the future of the trade ..choose wisely ..5000 yrs of tradition depends on you ..don't sell us out ..you have what you need to work so go do so ..if you take care of your work day after day after day ..the work will take care of you ..so in respect of my master his thoughts are mine too ..
realize that with old school attitude not going to make many friends in the contemporary glass school of thought ..but not really interested in friends as much as keeping the traditions alive ..some bodie has to or the trade will just degenerate in to more hype than substance ..so in respect of those that knew glass before me .. this man works for tradition ..
furnace is up to 36 degrees above zero ..looking for a pack of matches ..going to bring the beast alive soon ..melt some material and see where it takes me ..hopefuly home ..peace for all peoples..koehler..

writing blog about Tibetan journey. this is not place to post ..will post link ..after sguirrels translate and edit ..

[Garner Britt]

Sounds like Doc Bronner to me, which reminds me, I need to take a shower.....

[Wes Hunting]

"The underground is for under achievers"

[Jordan Kube]

As teach glassblowing the African shepherd-astronomers Abraham & Paul for 6000 years OK! 13 essence birth control patents, Planetemples & "Ed Schmid's Bathroom Reader" potassium-glass industry giving mankind a new mineral salt, calcium malt, corn sesame, mineral boullion, alaska poop-on, and Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps! All one!

[Pete VanderLaan]

At this point I have one hand on the pepcid bottle and one finger over the big red button in my administrative options section.

[Wes Hunting]

Don't do it Pete!
Kungfu was always one of my favorite 70's TV shows.

"when master turned me loose he told me ..don't go out and start a glass blowing school will just cheapen the traditions .. you are one of the last apprentices of the old school "

Paul, give me a ****in break.

[Steve Stadelman]

Maybe he meant appurtanance, like a small extra building. Say, a toolshed or privy.

[Pete VanderLaan]

I absolutely have to look into why the new program has decided that we can't use foul language.

My master said "Grasshopper, they throw shit on the walls at the masters wedding to keep the flies off of the bride."

[Steve Stadelman]

I corrected my spelling.

[Jud Scott]

WOW, how nice you are. to tell me that you have no respect for me because I spent money on a known system that is highly efficient instead of building my current furnace, which by the way is really pretty easy (i have built several gas furnaces, just not my own, sorry electric is the future). I believe that the only reason a glassblower wont share with others is because they are not very talented and have little or no fresh ideas. By sharing with each other we make all of us better, and increase the quality and value of the glass that we make. If we hide from one another and hold on to our secrets, glass will become stagnant and lose value. The interest in glass today is a direct result of several people sharing all they knew with others in the beginning of the studio glass movement in this country. And those people sharing , and on and on. I say THANK YOU to those who have come before me. Thank you to the members of this board who have decades of time with the glass sharing with the rest of us. Personally, people like Mr Paul Koehler dont have anything to teach, because you have to be open to others to teach. It would seem all he could offer is ridicule and shame. good luck Mr. Koehler.:mad:

[Steve Stadelman]

Nice post Jud. You conveyed my personal feelings very well. Thank you for not replying in stream-of-conciousness.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Actually it reminds me of that woman from Magic Mountain, Heidi Broderbund. She sailed in with an amazing attitude that she was going to save us all from ourselves and had this remarkable output of bad information which was seized on immediately as the best comic entertainment we had experienced in years. I still remember the "naturally occuring lead crystal that leeched the lead out at the base of a mountain in a harmless fashion." She was also the author of the fabulous fifteen percent rule on compatibility. When challenged, she sailed away after threatening a few people with a lawyer.

If you read Yoda's posts here and you do it carefully you will see that no information was actually ever imparted at all. It's pretty silly. Then again, so are the people who after three years making ornaments declare themselves to be "Masters".

[Scott Novota]

It was always my understanding that you did not declare yourself master, but your piers did.

Scott.
.

[Larry Cazes]

If you read Yoda's posts here and you do it carefully you will see that no information was actually ever imparted at all. It's pretty silly. Then again, so are the people who after three years making ornaments declare themselves to be "Masters".

Ahhh, Thats a relief. I thought it was just my lack of comprehension :)

[Ben David]

Nice post Jud. You conveyed my personal feelings very well. Thank you for not replying in stream-of-conciousness.

Ditto on both - especially the lack of stream of consciousness :rolleyes

[Franklin Sankar]

Come on smile as you do your duty to protect and serve. So no info was imparted, but The entertainment makes up for your wasted time. If you had nothing to defend life would not be so excining. We learned a lot from Heidi downfall. So all was not a waste.
Franklin