petal making

[Franklin Sankar]

How do you make a petal in a paperweight. I tried using a torch and melted a dot on the surface then pulled it down a bit to kind of get it into a tear drop. Got a long stringer. Burned it off. Took a knife and tried to rake the blob to make the tear drop more petal like. The blob sank into the glass but it did look a bit petal like . I have to use a rusty knife because a new one just slides through and kind of cut instead of grabbing and pulling.
Yes one petal at a time is all I need for now.
Franklin

[Barb Sanderson]

Hi Franklin
Your dot for the petal has to be very hot to make it move nicely. If you can find something to use that has a small hook on the end instead of a knife that will work better. Then heat up the dot and first use the hook to drag some glass into the center of the dot and directly across from this use the hook to pull glass out from the center of the dot. This is difficult to describe by writing but hope it helps!

Barb

[Brian Blanthorn]

Hi Franklin
Your dot for the petal has to be very hot to make it move nicely. If you can find something to use that has a small hook on the end instead of a knife that will work better. Then heat up the dot and first use the hook to drag some glass into the center of the dot and directly across from this use the hook to pull glass out from the center of the dot. This is difficult to describe by writing but hope it helps!

Barb

Barb[/QUOTE]

I have developed a lot of cunning technology 2 fuze 50 K blocks with aceptabble bubbles basicaly its laminated with few air gaps n a very slow firer up ( this is fuzed glass not blowing )

But I have always wondered how a complex thing like a Paul Stankard "real" looking flower could b made with no bubbles as its actualy 3dimensions rather than a flat " immage "

Franklin an alternitive method would B make a petal in a torch or grind / cut one out n pick it up U could blow out some clour thin n use that would cut fairly easy n u could nibble it with a pair of plyers if U did just a bit at a time

Thanks Brian

[Franklin Sankar]

Yes Barb I remember now what you are talking about. I forget sometimes when I have no one to see or someone looking at me. I made a hook tingie thing but was poking the middle of the dot and pulling down. Hooking the top makes good hearts also (I think) .
Brian, finally got a down load on one of your video. Very nice to see you. Maybe I can hear you in one of them also. Nice trick to make petals outside. I did try that but not for small flowers. Someone should make petal shaped cane.
Does Paul show anyone what he does? anyone actually seen him in action.
Franklin

[Ben Solwitz]

I don't know for sure but it's fairly likely that Stankard vacuum encases his flameworked bits. If you take all the air out of the atmosphere there's nothing to trap.

I don't know what size you're trying to make Franklin but a technique I've seen that works pretty well is to stick a round bit of color back on the moile, then crimp it flat and use the crimps to pull it up onto the piece. I've never seen it used for a paperweight but I've seen some nice flowers made this way and I imagine it would work for a weight.

[Allan Gott]

........dental pick........

[Brian Blanthorn]

I don't know for sure but it's fairly likely that Stankard vacuum encases his flameworked bits. If you take all the air out of the atmosphere there's nothing to trap.

I don't know what size you're trying to make Franklin but a technique I've seen that works pretty well is to stick a round bit of color back on the moile, then crimp it flat and use the crimps to pull it up onto the piece. I've never seen it used for a paperweight but I've seen some nice flowers made this way and I imagine it would work for a weight.

Thanks Ben

The technology we use is in a way similar almost

If U fuse glass quick the traped air is "cold" n then expands

If U fuze it realy slow espesialy prior 2 entrapment the air has expanded so when entrapped there is a lot less 2 expand n also has longer 2 escape also the outside tends 2 entrap first if fast fire

4 those that wanna embark upon this path with flat glass prior 2 fuze if slow, U get a kinda moyay or interfearance pattern ( concentric circles ) just b4 fuze

Verry subtle but visable 2 those that seek truth

I kinda fantasy about building a big box 2 go over the kiln n then suck the air out I think just a bit less air would help

Brian

[Ben Solwitz]

That would be totally awesome, I took a roll up class this summer and one thing I didn't like was that we ended up with bubbles everywhere. Most of the panels we fused had two layers of single rolled bullseye in them so they trapped tons of air. The instructor said we could cut down on the bubbles by using flatter glass and cutting it up into smaller pieces but it seems like it would be tough to get rid of them altogether. I really liked the control you can get with fused panels but I'm used to trying to make stuff with no bubbles so that was sort of irritating.

[Franklin Sankar]

Ben I get a big bubble when I crimp and pull a form on top of the paperweight. size about 2.5 ins. so I am trying to go flat on the surface. Dont know if that makes sense but I try.
Franklin

[Ben Solwitz]

Yeah it could be difficult to keep bubbles out that way. Another method I've used for making flowery paperweights is to put some powder on the marver with a stencil and pick it up. You can get any kind of shape you want this way, the only disadvantage is that the color is thin so you have to be creative to get a lot of depth. You can make stems and the like pretty easily by pushing a pick into a bit of color towards the pipe, it will stretch and make a nice line.

[Brian Blanthorn]

That would be totally awesome, I took a roll up class this summer and one thing I didn't like was that we ended up with bubbles everywhere. Most of the panels we fused had two layers of single rolled bullseye in them so they trapped tons of air. The instructor said we could cut down on the bubbles by using flatter glass and cutting it up into smaller pieces but it seems like it would be tough to get rid of them altogether. I really liked the control you can get with fused panels but I'm used to trying to make stuff with no bubbles so that was sort of irritating.

Have a look at this W278

http://www.blanthorn.com/pebbles/pebbles_making.htm

This is similar 2 Be in that it is a "soft "glass undulated

I use a very high temp fire n bubbles R risen off n burst

U do need 2 enshure a good " mould " or will leak n U can get undulations

W283 / W284 r flatter sls glass n I dont fire much above 900 c 4 these

With Be short vetical strips packed tight fored slow would b more bubble free

Brian

[Scott Young]

Franklin;
I can talk you through these, but it doesn't sound like the same type you are asking about. <see photo attachment>

[Ben Solwitz]

It doesn't look like W283 ended up with too many bubbles so I guess I just need to use flatter glass. We didn't use molds around our plates so they weren't fired very hot. We did a few full fuses of vertical strips in a mold and those came out pretty bubble free because they were hotter and the air had a chance to rise out to the top. I guess I'm gonna have to buy some flat glass and try it out.

[Scott Novota]

I would like you to talk me though them!


Scott.
.

[Franklin Sankar]

Scott, I assume that you put some layers of glass on the surface of the paperweight and melt them in with the torch then poke it in?
But how come you dont get a big bubble in the middle?
Franklin

[Scott Young]

It's actually a technique I originally learned doing torchwork called an "implosion". The basic steps are:

1. Take a few gathers from the furnace
2. Flatten on a marver -------| (the dashed line represents your pipe)
3. Add lines or dots around the perimeter of the flattened gather using cane and a hand torch, or you can use frit (about .5" in from the outside rim)
4. heat mainly the "face" of the gather in the glory
5. use a large paperweight mold to help make what I refer to as a "donut" (pushing the outter rim away from the pipe causing a concave) -----{
6. marver flat again (using slight pressure)
7. repeat steps 5 & 6 as many times as required to "implode" your pattern (you will see the colors from your dots & lines actually "bloom" to the inside)
8. Once your flower has "bloomed" and you've rounded out the glass, punti up, break off and round the top of your paperweight. ------O------

Confusing? Or does the above make any sense? In step 3, you can draw multiple concentric patterned lines to add multiple "petals" and depth.

[Franklin Sankar]

Thanks Scott Young , what is a paperweight mold and when you say marver flat what shape will that make . Like holding vertically up and push down on the marver? Do you poke the middle to make the donut?
Franklin

[Scott Young]

Thanks Scott Young , what is a paperweight mold and when you say marver flat what shape will that make . Like holding vertically up and push down on the marver? Do you poke the middle to make the donut?
Franklin

I use thin walled round molds I purchased from Hot Block Tools (http://www.hotblocktools.com/Round_Blocks.html)

Marvering flat does mean vertically up and pushing down "lightly" on the marver
|
|

No poking required, rather you use the round mold to "push" the glass into the concave shape -----{

[Brody Shaw]

so you punty them up for the implosion effect.....

someone,(maybe you Scott) posted a like before to a flame worker making an implosion....I've see'um before, but was unaware how they did that....still gotta try it, to fullly grasp it tho....

[Franklin Sankar]

Thanks Scott. So the paperweight blocks is just like regular blocks except they are smaller? You use it to make the glass round. So you flatten the tip then your round it then flatten then round???? and the magic happens??
Franklin

[Scott Young]

Pretty much... the magic happens. I found some pictures I did of the technique for a torchwork tutorial quite a few years ago. They may help "visualize" the process. Not exactly the same, but should give you a better idea.

You actually have to punty up at the end since the top of the flower/paperweight is towards your pipe.

[Dan Ellis]

Also, when you go to the marver to mash it flat hold the punty vertically so the glass hangs down for a second or two to stretch out a bit, flatten the very tip slowly to freeze the tip and then push more to spread it out. It helps a lot if you can direct most of your heat to the bottom half of your gather.

You want the lines of color to move into the gather and the dots on the suface to move closer to each other. When you do an implosion right it'll seem like the glass is turning inside out.

[Ben Solwitz]

Thanks for the pictures and tips guys, people have told me how to do implosions before but I don't do much torch work so I didn't really get it until I read this thread. The paperweights look really cool though, I never thought of doing an implosion at the furnace, I'll have to try it next time I'm in the shop.

[Franklin Sankar]

Thanks will try it.

Franklin

[Brian Blanthorn]

It doesn't look like W283 ended up with too many bubbles so I guess I just need to use flatter glass. We didn't use molds around our plates so they weren't fired very hot. We did a few full fuses of vertical strips in a mold and those came out pretty bubble free because they were hotter and the air had a chance to rise out to the top. I guess I'm gonna have to buy some flat glass and try it out.


I dont know what U mean by "flat" glass

The only real flat glass is float

The others Be / Spectrun R not flat although Spectrum appears flatter the court case Spectrum V Be a few years ago implied there was little difference in actual use

Once the glass is not flat seams U get bubble entrapment in fact possibly Be due 2 its surface may enable bubble releace bette but firing schedule is critical in results

Warmglass is a beter place 4 this but there is almost a "war" over there on this issue and truth suffers unfortunately

Brian

[Ben Solwitz]

I just meant flat like sheets of glass, I haven't really worked with bullseye or spectrum or anything all that much. All the materials I currently own are glassblowing color.

[Franklin Sankar]

Is this what you had in mind? I dont know what happened at the end (see last pic). I am sure it was not supposed to happen.

[Franklin Sankar]

Based on the Tom Fuhrman poking method. Sorry Tom its not as good as your as yet but getting there. Next time I am going to file the petals into a near tear drop shape before I pick it up. Think that will help? At least I can make round shapes now.
Franklin