New batch for electric furnaces

[David Hopman]

I'm in the testing phase of a new batch formula for running in my Electroglass furnace and wanted to get an idea of how much interest there would be from others. It's derived from a formula that California Glass Studio has been using for 20 years or so, and then adjusted to lower corrosiveness even further.

I've run 700 pounds through so far and couldn't be more happy with the results. Long working time, colorless, polishes well. Compatible with every color I've tried it with so far, and have used Kugler, Reichenbach, Wiesenthal and Zimmermann so far, at least 30 or so.

I had been using Philips 2665 for 7 years, then switched to System 96, which did a lot of damage to my door and gathering port and wasn't very nice to blow.

East Bay Batch is making it for us. I was worried about dust, but frankly I can't even see any in the air during charging. The batch is extremely dry. I have charged with Spruce Pine at SJSU and this is much less dusty. The amount of fumes that come off of it during charging/melting seem to be even less than the 2665, and you honestly can't tell a charge has just been put in even standing right in front of the door.

The tenative name for it is Eutectic Electric Batch. Cost looks like it will be around .50-.55 a pound.

I've been working it at 1990, annealing at 890. Charging at 2150, melting at 2350 and squeezing at 1950. 2 hour ramp to 2350, melt time 8.5 hours, squeeze 4 hours- glass comes out great, even with this fairly quick cycle time. I've even been charging 62 pounds at a time in a 200 pound pot- lose less than 200 degrees on a charge.

It also seems to be pretty thermal shock resistant. We were making an overlay piece and I had just put on gather number 4 when one of my assistants headed into the basement to get something. We heard a crash, then silence. I sent my wife down to check on him- she gets down there and yells for me. I hung the piece up. He was on the floor, incoherent, trying to get up. I ran upstairs, called 911, gave them address and situation, then went back downstairs. He's still incoherent. Tried to get a pulse but he was struggling too much. I go back upstairs and call his wife and tell her to start driving- she was over an hour away. The fire department and paramedics are now arriving, and the basement barely has enough room for one prone person, so I get out of the way. Glass hasn't exploded yet, so I shoved it back in the glory hole and it didn't crack. It took the fire department about 10 minutes to get him out of the basement and into the ambulance. My wife and I finished the piece then closed up and headed to the hospital. We get there and my fears are confirmed- he had a stroke and was paralyzed on one whole side of his body. The great news is that within a couple of hours he started getting movement back, and after a few days in the hospital, he was back to 95% recovery. It's now a month later and it looks like he will have 100% recovery.

So the bottom line is the glass can hang a while.

If anybody has any comments or questions, feel free to post or call. I probably have 250+ colors here, so I might be able to do a test for a specific color if anybody needs it.

Dave Hopman
Chaos Glassworks
(209) 267-9317

[Zac Gorell]

We just switched from Glasma to Spruce Pine. I have found Glasma to be so corrosive to the fiber blanket that insulates the furnace that it will compromise the whole thing. The mustard colored gases during charging will snake there way up through the insulation and leaves gaps in in its wake.

Spruce PIne 87W/er/TS is 42/lb so if the costs are close to that then we would consider it. We have a 350lb electroglass and charge weekly.

There is another shop in Akron that may be up for it as well but cant speak for them.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Are you saying that East bay is pelletizing the batch? When you say you charge at 2150 and that the furnace drops 200 degrees, are you charging then at 1950Fand then reboundng to 2150F? 65 lbs at a time is a lot of batch. 1990 seems pretty cold as a working temp. Is that a personal quirk?

As a former fire chief, That is a very good testimonial story. Not quite as good as Shamwows!, but very good.

Finally, since you say it is an electroglass furnace, Is Steven Sinott involved in this at all?

[David Hopman]

The batch is not pelletized.

A 62 pound charge goes in at 2150 and only drops about 200 degrees before the temperature starts climbing again. I used to preheat my 2665 and my System 96 to 950 before charging to avoid any popping problems, and charged 35 pounds for 2665 or 50 pounds for System 96. Strangely, even with the smaller charges and preheating, I always got a bigger temperature drop, usually around 250 or so.

Yeah, 65 pounds is a huge charge, but I wanted to push the envelope to see how it would react. It also means that you can get a complete charge in a day and blow the next morning. I let it melt flat between charges.

I blew the 2665 and System 96 at 2050. Started this stuff at 2050 and kept turning it down until I ended up at 1950, which seems just right.

I have had more than one conversation about this batch with Steve- he has been encouraging and has already referred customers to me. He recognizes that the 2665 just got too cost-prohibitive, and there are some issues with the water content in Spruce Pine and the Silicon Carbide elements. Spruce Pine is .52-.63 a pound in half ton quantities in CA, so this batch will end up being cheaper for me.

[Brian Gingras]

[QUOTE=David Hopman;78852. He recognizes that the 2665 just got too cost-prohibitive, and there are some issues with the water content in Spruce Pine and the Silicon Carbide elements. [/QUOTE]

If you are having issues with SiC Elements degrading, it's the element quality that's a bigger issue. We have 2 years of continuous operation on our set of SiC bars melting SP right now after switching to a higher quality(density) element, and with monthly monitoring of their draw, they show no aging yet.

[David Hopman]

I am on year 8 on my Starbars, so I guess preheating in the past has paid off. I'm going to stick with not preheating this batch and hope for the best.

[David Hopman]

An update:

I think we are within a week or two of releasing this batch. A couple of blowers rented my shop last weekend and they were both blown away by how nice it is to work with. They couldn't stop raving about it, and they have both blown a lot of different batches in a variety of locations. They offered to give testimonials for it.

Some background- the basic formula has been used for over 20 years in two shops. Now that the formulator has retired from blowing, he's letting it out. It got slightly adjusted to lower corrositivity specifically for Electroglass furnaces, but the basic formula was run in a Moly electric furnace for 10 years in one shop and gas for the rest of the time in both shops.

[Pete VanderLaan]

This is getting right up on needing to be an advertisement, since it's not a one time advertisement that belongs in the classifieds. If you want to be a sponsor, we have a way to do that.

[David Hopman]

Uh, considering how many of the threads on the discussion page involve things for sale, not to mention the sticky threads that are completely about products for sale, I don't think moving this thread was warranted.

Changing to a new batch formula is a huge decision, and it needs to be discussed, which is what I was hoping for by bringing it here. Evaluation and testing and criticism. Yeah, I'm getting a miniscule cut from any sales, but if it amounts to enough to go out to dinner once I'll be surprised. Even if I wasn't getting anything but the ability to use the batch I'd be doing nothing different.

[Pete VanderLaan]

To the contrary, the people with sticky threads are paying for advertising. The fee is $500.00 per year. Your thread has clearly morphed from informational to solicitation, citing product name, price per lb, testimonials, etc. If you want to advertise in a sticky thread you can certainly do that if we feel that the product is a good one for the glass community. Otherwise it belongs in the classifieds which are free but should not be abused with overuse. I make every attempt to allow free trade on the board . I am responsible for the decision making process on the board. Katie is responsible for paying for the board. We are very clear about our policies and you will not find daylight between our positions.

[David Hopman]

I apologize then. It certainly isn't obvious, or intuitive that the sticky threads are paid advertising.

I'll limit occasional updates to the Classified boards.

[Pete VanderLaan]

All you have to do is to read them: Particularly if you are new.

I would direct you to the one which offers "Craftweb sponsorship INFO". It's the fifth one.