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Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2011, 06:12 AM
How well does this color fit spruce pine?

Josh Bernbaum
03-12-2011, 06:23 AM
No problems here.

Josh B

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2011, 06:40 AM
Does it bleed a lot. How is the density?

John Riepma
03-12-2011, 09:04 AM
I have used quite a bit of it, both bar and frit. It's really dense and kind of stiff. Never had a problem fitting Spruce Pine.

Gregory Nangle
03-12-2011, 09:22 AM
hahaha i just blew a couple grand on a HUGE pile of r-61 ,works fine with sp also ,fwiw, it works well with cbc.

Josh Bernbaum
03-12-2011, 10:11 AM
Does it bleed a lot. How is the density?

I feel like it's quite dense for an enamel white.

It's not gone the distance for me though when blowing up
a piece that has thick "zanfirico" type canes made of R-61 filigrana.
I'd like to try Gaffer's opalo duro for that instead.

Thomas Chapman
03-12-2011, 10:24 AM
[cbc] Is that the Corning batch?

Gregory Nangle
03-12-2011, 10:56 AM
yes, corning batch.

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2011, 12:19 PM
I just don't want to do a melt of a duro enamel right now. When I'm getting in to a lead arsenate, I really want to be able to ventilate the shop without worrying about freezing the pipes.

So, Thanks!

Eben Horton
03-12-2011, 05:34 PM
It's a nice white.

Jeff Mentuck
03-12-2011, 06:38 PM
It's the only white!

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2011, 06:47 PM
well, no it's not but the one I'm using right now would be a major hassle to melt right now. The one I'm using right now is real overkill for the job at hand.

Scott Garrelts
03-21-2011, 07:50 PM
what is the job at hand?

powder is excellant for lighting... i agree with pretty much everything else up there too^^^

Pete VanderLaan
03-22-2011, 06:25 AM
I will have a continuing need for a dense white for some cane for Mary Beth's jewelry and a little feature in my own work. While I could melt a duro white, I prefer not to until I can really open up the studio when the weather's warm. I am not a big fan of 6% arsenic coupled with a lot of lead. It's a PIA glass to melt. It jumps out of the pot. Lino suggested, and I tried, pouring cold water on it in the pot, which works but is hard on the refractories. I had been getting the white from another color melter here , trading for dense black, but I didn't think he would want that to be public knowledge so he stays unnamed.

Scott Novota
03-22-2011, 10:12 AM
Pete is there a reason you don't use the standard Gaffer enamel white?

Pete VanderLaan
03-22-2011, 02:06 PM
the Richenbach was on sale at East Bay. I got 25% off.

Scott Novota
03-22-2011, 02:51 PM
Good enough.

Scott Garrelts
03-22-2011, 08:50 PM
It jumps out of the pot. Lino suggested, and I tried, pouring cold water on it in the pot, which works but is hard on the refractories.

please elaborate on the jumping and why water makes it not so. its getting late maybe im missing something here...

r-61 makes good cane but leaves alot to be desired if you're used to duro. the flattening of lines and such.

John Van Koningsveld
03-22-2011, 09:26 PM
"Boiling" issue?

Michael Mortara
03-22-2011, 09:43 PM
So why not the Gaffer Duro white?
totally tight, makes the R61 look like spilt milk

Eben Horton
03-22-2011, 09:43 PM
please elaborate on the jumping and why water makes it not so. its getting late maybe im missing something here...

r-61 makes good cane but leaves alot to be desired if you're used to duro. the flattening of lines and such.

'froth'.... the water pops the bubbles...

Pete VanderLaan
03-23-2011, 04:15 AM
It's a 6% arsenic trioxide glass which really makes it jumpy. The water knocks those bubbles down but they keep coming back. I don't need the strength of a duro for what I'm doing but I do save the Duro for glasses where I need that staying power. I will make the Duro this summer, but not for sale. Arsenic is simply too expensive in this country to make it possible to compete on selling that stuff. John Croucher pays about 1/10th of what I have to pay. It's pretty much the same for lead monosilicate. He gets his in China and I can't legally import it.

Franklin Sankar
03-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Can't you make your own?. Head out to the middle of the forest in the dead of night and melt down your truck batteries you were saving up over the years etc etc. The trees will absorb the lead and all is well?????
really will that be a problem if you do safely or is there some legislation problems you have to comply with.
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
03-24-2011, 04:43 PM
I actually have some concern for my own health, shocking as that might seem to you. I would rather wait until I can open the studio way up without worrying about freezing the pipes. The lead doesn't concern me but the arsenic does. It doesn't bind well in the glass. Very gassy stuff. That sweet smell from enamel or duro whites that gives you those blinding three hour headaches is the arsenic.

Trees are the primary source of arsenic anyway. Kind of the equivalent of coals to newcastle.

Legislation in New Hampshire? Hah! Live freeze and die.

Josh Bernbaum
03-24-2011, 05:51 PM
Legislation in New Hampshire? Hah! Live freeze and die.

No doubt it's legal to bring your arsenic with you if you decide to visit the NH State House.

Franklin Sankar
03-25-2011, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the explaination it makes sense now. Arsenic kills you fast lead kills slowly. Do all white glass have some arsenic? or only the better ones?
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
03-25-2011, 06:12 PM
Enamel glasses are laden with lead arsenate. Lots and lots and it is bound poorly. Use enamel whites in a vented powder booth. It's the sweet smell.

Franklin Sankar
03-26-2011, 05:22 AM
I am at a great risk because I lost lots of my sense of smell. Do you know if the white from Gabbert is enamel? Is there a way to recognize enamels?
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
03-26-2011, 06:04 AM
That is not an enamel white, it is a fluorine white and it has a pretty good punch to it as well, but it will only knock you on your can like smelling salts. If it smokes, it's talking to you.

You should just go down to the docks and do paintings with spray cans. It's a faster way to destroy your respiratory system.

Pete VanderLaan
03-26-2011, 06:07 AM
Arsenic kills you fast lead kills slowly.
Franklin
*********************
Arsenic is a twofer. It will do it either fast or slow.

David Russell
03-26-2011, 01:49 PM
a while ago when i lived in the penland area one of the local glass artist's dog become quite sick exhibiting signs of poisoning. of course some thought some perverse chapter of the locals had been responsible but after research and testing by the vet it was found to be arsinic poisioning via block bucket water the dog drank out of on the guys front porch. cherry wood>water>time=aresinic. the dog recovered in time...

Scott Garrelts
03-27-2011, 08:10 PM
That is not an enamel white, it is a fluorine white and it has a pretty good punch to it as well, but it will only knock you on your can like smelling salts. If it smokes, it's talking to you.

I see some green and turquoise opal frits/rods 'talk to me' right out of the glory hole. I don't think its just 'whites'. I can only guess some share the same base whites? Or maybe its the chrome in them? Not fun to accidently catch a wiff in either case I can say that. Ive seen numerous varied colors 'smoke' when taking a fresh gather also. Usually the first gather after a charge...

Larry Cazes
03-27-2011, 08:15 PM
I see some green and turquoise opal frits/rods 'talk to me' right out of the glory hole. I don't think its just 'whites'. I can only guess some share the same base whites? Or maybe its the chrome in them? Not fun to accidently catch a wiff in either case I can say that. Ive seen numerous varied colors 'smoke' when taking a fresh gather also. Usually the first gather after a charge...

Gaffer's Red Luster smokes when I take a roll in grain powder on a fresh gather. Love the color but the smoke is a little scary. Any ideas what it may be out gassing?

Scott Garrelts
03-27-2011, 10:21 PM
Gaffer's Red Luster smokes when I take a roll in grain powder on a fresh gather. Love the color but the smoke is a little scary. Any ideas what it may be out gassing?

selenium, cadmuim, red lead? i dunno really, but its all bad.

"hold yer breath"

Tom Fuhrman
03-28-2011, 07:57 AM
chocolate layered cake, Ben & Jerry's ice cream, sausage gravy on biscuits,
alcohol, tobacco, pain killers.
some may die of too much sunshine.
pick your poisons.
something will get us all.

Pete VanderLaan
03-28-2011, 09:11 AM
I have seen other colored enamel glasses, it's certainly not hard to do. The sweet smell is the giveaway. The other stuff is probably just fluorine which as a color rod, doesn't bother me. It does bother me if there is a 75 lb pot of it gassing off in an unvented studio. If you look at the windows, they are usually etched.

But Tom is right. Hostess Twinkies will do it for sure.

Lawrence Duckworth
12-29-2013, 06:46 PM
Gaffer's Red Luster smokes when I take a roll in grain powder on a fresh gather. Love the color but the smoke is a little scary. Any ideas what it may be out gassing?

"Gaffer's Red Luster"

I've tried this color in a #3 frit twice now. The first time it came out a very nice deep rich red…loved it. Yesterday it came out with a dominating smoky blue haze over the red. I roll and melt the frit (2 times) till its almost out of control, and then clear over it. Anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong here? …annealing??

Greg Vriethoff
12-29-2013, 11:02 PM
My first guess would be that your glory hole and/or furnace are running rich on gas creating a reducing atmosphere.

Are you blocking or papering after applying the frit?

Lawrence Duckworth
12-30-2013, 05:12 AM
hmmm… the gh--that's a good place to start for sure. I'll pay more attention to that today ,thanks

...blocking

Greg Vriethoff
12-30-2013, 10:50 AM
Since this is a luster, I assume it is going to be more sensitive to atmospheric conditions. Blocking or papering provides enough reduction to cause a reaction. Reheating in a neutral gh will undo it. If you have a reducing atmosphere in your furnace, it could be enough to cause this reaction as you go in for a gather. If your furnace is electric, that last point is moot.

I suggest marvering while applying the frit. Only block or paper after you've cased it in clear.

If none of this makes sense, or is awkwardly worded, I apologize. I just woke up, and am just starting my first cup of coffee.

Lawrence Duckworth
12-30-2013, 11:54 AM
yes Greg, you make perfect sense, I just may not understand completely. The part about this being a luster and sensitive to atmospheric conditions throws me a little. What does a luster color have or not have that makes it different..lead, arsenic, tin?…..:) my head hurts but I thought thats from all the bumping.
…seriously though thanks for helping…I wrote down all the different things I tried today including what went where in the annealer. No blocks, no paper, just marvering. I tried the reheat also, and kept an eye on the gh
..btw I just had lunch and apologize for my awkward wording…but never for my nonsense..:)

Hugh Jenkins
12-30-2013, 03:13 PM
It is very different the way that lusters respond to wood blocks, versus graphite blocks, and newspaper or carbon fabric. Not using any carbon material, like marvering, is different again.

This color has a huge range in effects from very attractive to downright ugly. It does not do the same thing from day to day either. I think it matters what you had for breakfast or lunch or something like that.

Pete VanderLaan
12-30-2013, 03:32 PM
Lusters are usually defined as really high lead/ silver glasses- around or above 40%.
I think the shine you see on them in reduction is actually lead more than anything. I am not positive of that but it's my opinion. Lead and red seems a contradiction to me but I've never looked at those glasses that John makes.

It is clear to me that newspaper does make a great short term reducing agent for any glasses with loose outer electron rings. I do think that you can make that type of glass opacify pretty easily and I don't think you want that. I do think that keeping the gloryhole neutral is important and I do think you should probably avoid paper altogether. Hugh's observation about the fine line between beautiful and ugly are spot on. I would wager a guess that the shorter the working time, the better the outcome.

Dave Hilty
12-31-2013, 09:42 AM
I have used the lustre plate out to "silver" with kugler's silver green & silver blue often enough and Gaffer's Red Lustre can be gorgeous when you get the reduction timing down to plate out to a lovely gold color. Wish I knew more about the chemistry of this surface "plating" in that I would like to understand what metals are actually showing. I have assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the red lustre plate out to a wonderful gold sheen was actually some of the trace gold plating out??

Customers will ask me if the metallic surface will tarnish and I tell them not, since of have had pieces for years (in normal home environment) and never noticed any shift in the original plate out. I tried using harsh silver polish on the surface and it didn't do anything. It must be that the glass binds and protects the metallic appearing surface to resist any real reaction with the environment.

Lawrence Duckworth
01-01-2014, 08:32 PM
things worked out very nice. that was useful stuff, thanks Pete and Gregg.
the bypass arrangement on R. Hunstrods glory is pretty swoof too.