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View Full Version : Assay Crucibles - Where to get 'em (and what to as


Dave Bross
11-27-2011, 11:40 AM
I have dealt with both of these and they're good.

Hunter Refractories - Locations east and west in the USA.They sell them by the case only. Ask them to repack them in bubble wrap or they'll never make it in one piece. Yes, that costs a little more:

http://www.hunterusa.com/products/crucibles.html


Legend Reno Mine Supply - Will sell singles or less than a case. Same deal on packing.

http://www.lmine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LMS&Category_Code=fire_clay_crucible

Pete VanderLaan
11-27-2011, 12:03 PM
They are pieces of shit but they're great little pieces of shit. Not for clear glass.

Dennis Hetland
11-27-2011, 09:17 PM
They are pieces of shit but they're great little pieces of shit. Not for clear glass.

Why not for clear?

Pete VanderLaan
11-27-2011, 09:57 PM
they bleed iron so fast it turns the glass green.

Steve Lazer
11-28-2011, 03:51 AM
A12 Salamander Super A Premium Graphite Crucible a ~ 20 lb crucible for $70

it seems tome we use graphite for marvers, shaping tools etc... and it will take 3000 degree working temps?

I do not know about the shock resistance etc but seems appropriate.

Dave Bross
11-28-2011, 06:08 AM
I've never tried graphite but the word on the street is that they will foam the glass.

I've used assay pots for clear on less visually demanding stuff like ornaments and beads.
Even paperweights with lots of color.
I don't notice the green provided there is other color involved.

If used with cullet they last quite a while. Batch eats 'em pretty quick.

Great for color melting in small quantities.

One of their major features is that you can bring them up to heat and back to cool as fast as you can.

Pete VanderLaan
11-28-2011, 08:09 AM
Graphite and silicon carbide will decidedly not work. At 70 for a 20lb crucible, I have stuff like that. The assay pots are for dumb ass throwaway stuff like little pots in your gloryhole. You will get what you pay for. They are not long lived.

Franklin Sankar
11-29-2011, 12:19 PM
I know its bad to hit the pot with the flame but how about hitting it slowly. ie starting up with a low Btu and gradually increasing the gas?
To avoid the direct flame I can try to shoot the flame on the side of the pot but what happens when it hit the back wall with a square shamber? or do you put a baffle (made of hard brick so it dont melt) for the flame to hit, then it splatters and???? where to go now?
A round chamber looks better to swirl it around.???
Remember I am talking about mini.
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
11-29-2011, 03:18 PM
Don't hit the pot with your flame- period.

Dennis Hetland
11-30-2011, 09:07 AM
What about coffee cups? What's the glass gonna look like if I color cullet in a coffee cup?
If I were to put cullet and some oxides in a cup and stick it in the gh isn't it going to take a long time for the bubbles to cook out? Can anyone share their experiences putting tiny crucibles in their gh?

Pete VanderLaan
11-30-2011, 09:18 AM
Look, all these solutions are temporary. The materials are what they are. Don't expect a VW to perform like a Mercedes. Coffee cups with color in them will last maybe a few days and then break. Assay pots will do similar things. If that doesn't interfere with your process it's fine. If you expect a decent life from a pot, you need one with high alumina.

You could just go to a pottery supply and buy some fire clay, mix it up a bit and make some coil pots out it. They will work for a short time. It's really more a question of what your time is worth to you. If you are picking cullet for clear, you are pretty much answering the question. There are some things I consider to be a cost of doing business, like lighting a gallery. Using fluorescent bulbs in a gallery is kind of dumb. IN glass, the material quality is important to me. I need stone and cord free quality to sell work that is not cheap. If you're making ornaments, thats another story.

Ed Skeels was taking kugler from a garage and dropping it in to pots in the gloryhole. He wasn't trying to color cullet. By preheating it, it didn't explode and he dropped little pieces in frequently. Coloring cullet in a coffee cup is going to disappoint.

Dave Bross
12-01-2011, 06:27 AM
Devil's advocate....

I've never had an assay pot break and I've gone through cases of them. I have lost three or four of the EC pots to voids and cracking with resulting furnace wipe out.

Coffee cups will explode if you try to take them up to temp as fast as an assay pot...said he picking the ceramic pieces out of his forehead.

There is a higher alumina assay pot available. Hunter can order them for you. thet're still not as "clean" or long lived as a good pot.

Bubbles cook out of cullet in 2-3 hours, much longer when melting batch. That's in a 5" tall 4 pound capacity pot. I'm guessing a coffee cup would be about the same. Height makes a time difference.

Pete should sell assay pots so we would have someone who REALLY knows how to pack a pot for shipping.

Peter Piper Packed a Peck of Putrid Pots.

Pete VanderLaan
12-01-2011, 07:44 AM
I just don't want to deal in low end stuff like that. It's all handling and no profit. I am very happy representing High Temp. It is really refreshing to deal with honest people.

Franklin Sankar
12-01-2011, 12:28 PM
You need Dudley's secret.
Franklin

David Patchen
12-01-2011, 03:32 PM
Guys, the assay crucibles are super cheap to experiment with--probably cheaper than coffee cups. As Pete says--even if you only use it a few times and chuck it it's no big deal. Check it out:

http://www.lmine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LMS&Category_Code=economy_repacks

Pete VanderLaan
12-01-2011, 05:22 PM
Is this sufficiently beaten to death yet?

Scott Novota
12-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Yea but I will throw in one more...wack...


The enamel gaffer white after about 3 weeks will eat right though the bottom of these pots. It drilled a hole and emptied right on out.


That is 3 weeks of non-stop use. I bet I melted 30 bars of white in it before I created that hole.


Scott.
.

Jordan Kube
12-02-2011, 06:19 PM
They have their place and their purpose. Fireclay crucibles are an inexpensive way for people to get started working with hot color. Worked for me. Your first car wasn't a Porsche was it Pete? :)

Pete VanderLaan
12-02-2011, 08:21 PM
Actually, I bought and sold speedsters and 1600's as a 16-17 year old kid. I usually paid about $100-175.00 each, rebuilt them and sold them. I rebuilt pre 1959 Mercedes too. Old 219-220's a 170, a bunch of 190SL's. I was pretty good at it.

Bad example

I have no trouble with fireclay pots and said so. Marketing them is not worth the work involved.

David Patchen
12-02-2011, 08:31 PM
I'll trade you a case of the finest iron-rich assay crucibles for a speedster.

Love those bathtub Porsches. I looked into splitting a beautiful partially restored black speedster w/my dad 20 years ago but upon inspection it was a mess of rust. So disappointing, but probably saved us from a moneypit.

I learned my lesson regarding moneypits (not before owning a boat though) and thus only rent time rather than own a hotshop :)

Thread sufficiently hijacked?

Franklin Sankar
12-03-2011, 05:48 AM
Thanks for sharing that statistic Scott. I was wondering how to schedule the change outs. The advantage with these pots is that they can be ramped up quickly and yes Jordan they seem great for quick experiments.
How did the white look in the pot? Did the iron make it greenish??? It must have been eating a lot of pot. haha getting high.
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
12-03-2011, 09:10 AM
I'll trade you a case of the finest iron-rich assay crucibles for a speedster.

Love those bathtub Porsches. I looked into splitting a beautiful partially restored black speedster w/my dad 20 years ago but upon inspection it was a mess of rust. So disappointing, but probably saved us from a moneypit.

I learned my lesson regarding moneypits (not before owning a boat though) and thus only rent time rather than own a hotshop :)

Thread sufficiently hijacked?
*******************
I really welcome the hijacking at this point.

These days I dump money into HO Trains. You can't drown falling off of one during a heart attack.

The car rebuilding was a great period in my life. I also did MG TC's and TF's, a few "A"'s and now my second "B". The resale of Porsche's and Mercedes was very cheap in the mid '60's. There were a ton of them around So Cal for next to nothing. .I could do a speedster and sell it for about $12-1500 and do fine. My Brother did the bodywork and paint. I rebuilt old Lincoln Continentals too. My last was a 1941 V-12 flathead. It had Hydraulic windows!. We bought a 1952 300D Mercdes limo from Universal Studios for $800.00 and rebuilt it . That was hard to get parts for. A lot of shipping from Germany. It looked like Hitler should jump right out.

Lawrence Duckworth
12-03-2011, 10:28 AM
We have a pretty good looking old single axle international dump truck used to haul off drops n scrap. My middle grandaughter jumps into go with me the other day and starts playing (and seems fascinated) with the rollup window handles and says..Papa these are cool !

Pete VanderLaan
12-03-2011, 11:36 AM
That's funny! At one point my kids actually saw the turntable running. We had a Beatles album on it! My daughter loved the music! We told her to flip it over. She had no idea what we were talking about...

Porsches were not really considered seriously until the 911-s in 1966-67. Then the old ones became more desirable. I sold a lot of them to UCSD students and I had run through most I had found in San Diego and moved on to the old Mercedes which did not garner interest until into the 1970's. Those wound up with local Doctors who really liked the Gasoline Alley kind of feel they had. I could get them for $100-400 if they had problems, but that was when $400 actually had value. By then I was doing glass full time.

Richard Huntrods
12-03-2011, 11:59 AM
Any particular brand of HO trains? In Canada as a kid (well, western Canada anyway) there was Lionel (USA) with the large 3-track trains, and then there was Triang (UK) for the HO. I still have my Triang stuff, and most still works. Lost the 4x8 layout years ago due to mould from a small flood in the parent's basement.

Love the British sports cars. I've done some restoration on my 68 MGB (new floor on driver's side) and it's in pretty good shape right now. I'd love to get an MGA some day but probably won't.

Did you do any of the gull wing Mercedes? We knew a lawyer in Seattle in the '60s who had one. Wonderful car.

-R

Pete VanderLaan
12-03-2011, 12:49 PM
The Gull wing was at full value even when I was 16. They sold for upwards of 200K. The 190SL could go pretty cheap. I bought one for $800. A real Granny's sports car. I did have to do the whole block on it. The British stuff was always exciting. These were the days before liability insurance. They used to stack British sports cars in piles about 8 high and you had to climb the piles to get your parts. Very unstable. MGA's were $300 bucks. A TF or TD ran $600.00 since British fans are nuts. They always needed work even when they didn't need work. The motto was " never drive it further than you're willing to push it."

I have Lionel from 1950 but I mostly do HO on a 17x24 ' layout in the basement of the cape part of the farmhouse. It's all radio signal controlled now and is actually very challenging. I could theoretically run 99 different engines now, all on the same track all doing different things. If I really do more than three, my head explodes.

Franklin Sankar
12-03-2011, 01:01 PM
During that era the US looked like paradise to some people living outside the US. How do we know....we looked at TV. How was it really for you all?
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
12-03-2011, 06:37 PM
It was paradise.

Dave Bross
12-03-2011, 09:50 PM
The first guy crazy enough to hire me as a trainee mechanic had a 300SL convertible.

Another boss some years later had the gullwing version.

Those were beautiful to contemplate.....tube chassis, dry sump engine laid over sideways, and run like a scalded ape at highway speed (tall gearing).

Poor little 190SLSs....so little power...so much weight.

I too bought many cool and exotic "rat" condition cars and motorcycles from the backyards/garages of the very rich around the area of Connecticut I lived in then. I never did restore them, just drove them into the ground or wrecked them.

Loved that english stuff too. I've had strange desires lately for another Triumph 650 Bonneville or Norton Commando from the era but the old BMW I ride now has spoiled me forever reliability wise. I still miss having a bike you can ride like a flat tracker on dirt or asphalt but I'm getting a little old to be screwing around like that anymore. Adult onset maturity.

And yes Franklin...paradise sums it up. I think we saw the best of it.

Pete VanderLaan
12-04-2011, 07:15 AM
Dave. Think R69S !

Yes the 190SL was really slow but it was gorgeous in the parking lot! Mercedes has done a remake of the Gullwing. I have not seen it in person but it looks to be one of those rare birds where the designer did something right for a change. Not since the 450SL have I seen styling like the current Gullwing.

Interestingly, spell checker not liking Gullwing at all, suggested Bullwinkle.

Dave Bross
12-04-2011, 09:00 AM
Can't tell you how many sweet old Beemers like the R69 I missed back in the day. I only had eyes for the english stuff. I missed a split widow Corvette for a few hundred dollars for the same reason. I didn't even know what it was other than a bit different from what I'd seen.

What I have now is a K75. Strange...but a great road bike.

I didn't know MB was doing a retro gullwing. I'll have to go look that up.

Bullwinkle my ass.

I never liked the 450 SL, I liked the 230/250/280 SLs and hated to see the change to the different 350/450 body. The V8 was cool though.

Speaking of V8s...how about the 6.3 sedans. A german GTO and a real sleeper.

Or the 600 limo with the 6.3 motor? Ocean liners on steroids.

Pete VanderLaan
12-04-2011, 09:41 AM
My dad had a patient who had a 6.3 Mercedes limo . She was 78 years old. He asked her at one point why she had bought such a powerful car. She said "Well I wanted something that wouldn't slow down on hills."

For those of you unfamiliar with this beast. It would do 160MPH with no modifications off the showroom floor. It was a limousine.

I liked the convex roof on the body design of both the 450 and the 280. It was such a relief after the decade in the wilderness making bodies that looked like Ramblers.

Lawrence Duckworth
01-21-2015, 07:36 AM
Yea but I will throw in one more...wack...


The enamel gaffer white after about 3 weeks will eat right though the bottom of these pots. It drilled a hole and emptied right on out.


That is 3 weeks of non-stop use. I bet I melted 30 bars of white in it before I created that hole.


Scott.
.

I’m assuming you used the glory to melt this right? And this was brought up and down every day for three weeks? And this is an alternative to a color drop--right? ....And Pete’ll be so happy this thread is open again…;)

Pete VanderLaan
01-21-2015, 07:39 AM
little fireclay pots that leach iron and have a short life are not competition to me. Yesterday I advocated using AZS liner brick as an alternative in a tank. I don't think I'll lose sleep over assay pots. There are actually cheaper ways to do it but I'll let you figure that one out.