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Josh Bernbaum
01-04-2012, 01:34 PM
What are recommendations/experience folks have for the best dense/stiff
black color bar I'd be able to purchase? (I know, Pete, but I'm not able to attempt to melt some myself yet, maybe this Spring when I order some pots from you and get that smaller gas furnace going...)

I'd like it to fade as little as possible when stretched really fine, as in a zanfirico-type pickup that's gathered over and inflated a lot.

I tried the Gaffer "nero duro", but not happy enough with that. I'm trying the Reichenbach "stiff black" next.

Thanks,
Josh B.

Michael Mccain
01-04-2012, 02:12 PM
R-54 sp is a close second to the Flying Color dense black

Scott Lee Gamble
01-04-2012, 02:25 PM
I use the Gaffer Duro for stiffness and overlay it with either sp-54 or Flying colors for the deep black color.

Thomas Chapman
01-04-2012, 02:35 PM
What is SP 54? There was a reference on here not long ago referring to "Spruce Pine" colours. Maybe I need to get out more often. whazzup?

Josh Bernbaum
01-04-2012, 02:38 PM
Thanks for those suggestions and photo.

I'm gonna try the R-193, which they call "stiff black," and twice the price of their R-54 but Olympic color's havin a sale now.

I would like to try Pete's color too if it's currently available.

Pete VanderLaan
01-04-2012, 03:48 PM
I have the best black in the world. I have it on the shelf right now in small quantities. It is $68.00 per KG. If you need more than what I have, Spruce Pine batch sells it. John Croucher wanted me to license the black through him and I did not wish to do that.

Josh Bernbaum
01-04-2012, 08:13 PM
I have the best black in the world. I have it on the shelf right now in small quantities.

Better than that "rosin" black that I saw in the archives that Jordan Kube had mentioned a couple years ago? I wouldn't mind knowing more about what that is.

As far as the best black in the world, I will try it out for sure. I'll give SP a call tomorrow so I don't deplete your stock on the shelf.

Thanks Pete

Jordan Kube
01-05-2012, 01:45 AM
Lino's Nero T

Sand 100
Soda 44
Calcium 16
Boric Acid 3
Sulphur 3.950
Rosin 1.3
Iron Oxide 2.850
Black Nickle Oxide 1

Just for cane or threading. Overlay onto gaffer duro white for extra opaqueness in those super stretched out cane pick ups.

Have fun kids.

Pete VanderLaan
01-05-2012, 04:20 AM
Lino's rosin is a tough melt. It is periodically actually on fire. It is a great dense black with some interesting properties as well as problems. I recall him melting it about 2500F, which Jordan neglects to mention.you need serious ventilation to melt that formula. The sulfur and the rosin are real mess makers It is just for cane. Mine is all purpose and is a 96.

Franklin Sankar
01-05-2012, 07:02 AM
Is this the rosin you talking about?
"Rosin, also called colophony or Greek pitch (Pix gręca), is a solid form of resin obtained from pines and some other plants, mostly conifers, produced by heating fresh liquid resin to vaporize the volatile liquid terpene components. It is semi-transparent and varies in color from yellow to black. At room temperature rosin is brittle, but it melts at stove-top temperatures. It chiefly consists of different resin acids, especially abietic acid.[1] The term colophony or colophonia resina comes from its origin in Colophon, an ancient Ionic city."
Franklin

Pringle Teetor
01-05-2012, 08:19 AM
Pete's is the one and only.....

Pete VanderLaan
01-05-2012, 08:33 AM
Is this the rosin you talking about?
"Rosin, also called colophony or Greek pitch (Pix gręca), is a solid form of resin obtained from pines and some other plants, mostly conifers, produced by heating fresh liquid resin to vaporize the volatile liquid terpene components. It is semi-transparent and varies in color from yellow to black. At room temperature rosin is brittle, but it melts at stove-top temperatures. It chiefly consists of different resin acids, especially abietic acid.[1] The term colophony or colophonia resina comes from its origin in Colophon, an ancient Ionic city."
Franklin
****
Yes. Sap from a pine tree. I have tons in solid form. It's a real pain to obtain in a form you can work with. I used to get it at sporting goods stores in little bags used on the pitching mound in baseball.

While Jordan has popped off the formula, I would really advise against trying to melt it. The sulfur will foul a furnace for months after the melt. It's essentially an Iron Sulphide black which is definitely dense but it has a lot of baggage... a whole lot.

Jordan Kube
01-05-2012, 10:21 AM
I found the rosin at a chemical supply place. It did come in huge chunks that I had to pulverize in a blender. Didn't seem to catch on fire that bad, could be that the rosin was nice and evenly distributed.

Victor Chiarizia
01-05-2012, 10:34 AM
Pete has done all the work on making a dense black. josh...take the soft road on this one. V
send the check to my 327 address

Josh Bernbaum
01-05-2012, 10:57 AM
Thanks for all the info.

Just got some of your bars from SP, Pete.

I'm not gonna try melting my own anytime soon, but was curious about
what that recipe was like, so thanks for that too Jordan.

Just out of curiosity, what is this rosin doing for the finished product chemically speaking?

Pete VanderLaan
01-05-2012, 11:04 AM
Pete has done all the work on making a dense black. josh...take the soft road on this one. V
send the check to my 327 address

**********
and I have yet to get any cheese for the silver Opal I sent to Vic....

The Rosin is a reducing agent. I suspect Black tin might perform better. get my rosin from my extensive collection of Pine trees.

Pete VanderLaan
01-05-2012, 11:06 AM
I found the rosin at a chemical supply place. It did come in huge chunks that I had to pulverize in a blender. Didn't seem to catch on fire that bad, could be that the rosin was nice and evenly distributed.
***********
Do it with the Maestro then. He's only happy when the fire department comes.

Victor Chiarizia
01-05-2012, 03:59 PM
pete i'm bringing cheese to philly! no port salut yet but you'll find something you like. bring more opal too! V

Pete VanderLaan
01-05-2012, 07:18 PM
I am enormously happy to say that I'm not doing Philly..

Rosanna Gusler
01-05-2012, 09:07 PM
flat rate boxes are great. send to 3963 mill landing rd wanchese nc . rosanna

Jon Myers
01-05-2012, 09:16 PM
Lino's Nero T

Sand 100
Soda 44
Calcium 16
Boric Acid 3
Sulphur 3.950
Rosin 1.3
Iron Oxide 2.850
Black Nickle Oxide 1

Just for cane or threading. Overlay onto gaffer duro white for extra opaqueness in those super stretched out cane pick ups.
Have fun kids.

So Pete, I know this glass is a smelly mess to make, is it less toxic to melt than your black?.

Pete VanderLaan
01-06-2012, 07:33 AM
Mine is not really terribly toxic ( he said shuffling awkwardly) . It has 11 percent lead monoxide in it to allow packing of the oxides, which comprise 19 pounds of every 100 lbs batch. It also has Chrome which gets my attention. Nickle and cobalt too. :chatter:

Lino's formula is obnoxious because of the sulfur mainly and that it has to be melted really hot. He used to take it up over 2500 degrees when it was in Luka's shop. So it destroys crucibles. You would need a super fined grain clay from LaClede or an AZS unit.The smell of the sulfur will just keep coming back for a long time. Months.

But it's not a blowing glass, it really is just for thread.. Really.