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John Riepma
02-16-2012, 12:20 PM
So, where does everyone get this stuff from in less than pallet-sized quantities? I would like to get just a little bit - 3" x 14" x 18" - for a pickup box I'm making. I'm looking for the V-1100, sand-colored stuff. My local supplier does not stock it, and the Pryor-Giggey rep tells me that he has no other sources in my area. I'm trying to avoid paying 3 times as much for shipping as for the product. Where do you all buy it from?

Pete VanderLaan
02-16-2012, 04:24 PM
Henry sells skamol

John Riepma
02-17-2012, 06:23 AM
Thanks, I'll PM him.

Pete VanderLaan
02-17-2012, 07:44 AM
He's in Tucson tight now playing golf and lecturing. I would suggest a straight email instead. Charlie Correll has access to a block insulation I am using as a backing for whiteboard in a slumping furnace for Mary Beth. They still call it insblock but it's an awful lot nicer than the insblock I used way back when- much more machinable.

John Riepma
02-17-2012, 10:54 AM
Nope Henry says he doesn't sell it. I called the number in NC that he gives in Glassnotes and left a message, waiting to hear if they'll sell small quantities direct.

Pete VanderLaan
02-17-2012, 03:06 PM
I'll ask Charlie Correll.

Marty Kremer
02-17-2012, 06:27 PM
From research over at Warmglass:

Your inquiry has finally landed someplace that is set up to serve glass artists like yourself! I was previously with Skamol for 9 years and then went on my own about 3 years ago. I have supplied all types of refractory materials, blanket, etc. to the glass artist industry….. And pleased to have your inquiry.
I do carry vermiculite boards from two sources. What I presently have in 600 kg/m3 density is a board measuring 40” x 24” x 1”. I can pack and ship two of these via UPS Ground to you in NJ. Neither I nor Skamol has a distributor in your area. Normally, each panel would require its own carton and packing, lest the carton become too heavy with an increased chance for breakage. The panels weigh approximately 21 lbs each.
The price/piece is $25.00 each. The packing cost is $40.00 for two, $35.00 for one. If you choose three or more then we look at LTL freight and basically “crate” the boards on a pallet.
The FOB point is:
Southern Services Co./c/o Hartsfield Warehouse
1700 West Pointe Drive
Suite E
Charlotte, NC 28214
Please let me know if I may be of service.
Yours truly,
Jim
James M. Wiles

_________________________
HEAT MANAGEMENT SOLUTIONS
Phone: 704 341 5577
Fax: 704 625 3687
Cell: 704 904 2401
www.southernserviceco.com
Refractories, fiber, modules, anchors, boards, installation services

Rick Sherbert
02-18-2012, 06:43 AM
I just bought a bunch for our new studio. They sell it by the sheet I think. I'll get the name when I get back in the office on Monday.

John Riepma
02-19-2012, 10:50 AM
Thanks Marty. I'll wait to hear Rick's supplier info and then make some calls.

Rick Sherbert
02-28-2012, 11:48 AM
As it turns out I actually use the guythat Marty has mentioned, but the company is Neuex Hearth Products www.newex.com

9629 Hanover South Trail
Charlotte, NC
980-236-7478
Jim Wiles

John Riepma
02-28-2012, 12:37 PM
Thanks Rick (and Marty). I've called and emailed, no success so far. I'll post when something does come through for others who may be interested.

Tom Clifton
03-12-2012, 07:00 PM
I went to HiTemp at lunch time today to pick up some IFB for a new fusing kiln and was ready to fork over the $$ ($2.50 each) when I asked if they had anything resembling Skamol vermiculite board. The answer was that they stocked K-fac19, 1900f Insulation board( by Thermafiber ,Wabash, IN) - For $1.50 per board foot.

I asked what thickness and size of sheets, and if they sold by the carton or sheet

The answer was 1", 1.5" and 2", 12" X 36" and either by the sheet or carton. (I found the use of lumber terms amusing). Same price for a carton or sheets. $72 later I had a full carton of 2" in the back of my wagon. They also sold me a 2lb coffee can full of pre-mixed kiln cement for $10 (I weighed it at home and it is about 10lbs).

HiTemp Refractories
22 N. Lark Drive
Fenton, MO. 63026
(636)667-2200

Pete - Tom was OTL so I wasn't able to give him regards...

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2012, 07:06 PM
just don't let him get to talking about horseshoes...

They always have interesting deals there. I bought a half a truck full of vermiculite insulating board from Tom one that was four inches thick by three foot by two foot. Great stuff. You could machine it. I've never seen it again.

Tom Clifton
03-12-2012, 07:47 PM
I should have read the literature before I took it home. It is a mineral fiber and "select mineral addatives" with an organic binder that burns out. Not like Skamol... Sigh...

K-FAC19 Data Sheet (http://www.thermafiber.com/images/uploads/pdf/k-fac%2019%20data%20sheet.pdf)

Allan Gott
03-12-2012, 09:34 PM
The KFAC will be fine once you get through the burnout Tom......it stinks pretty bad for about an hour and you want to have the studio doors wide open when you do it.

There is a step I would highly recommend for KFAC. Mix a thin slurry using some of the cement you bought. Use a mist bottle to moisten the hot face of the boards and paint the slurry on. It works best if you do it on a horizontal plane before mounting the board in the kiln. The slurry will soak in and form a thin and durable seal for the face of the board once it's fired.

Hugh Jenkins
03-12-2012, 11:45 PM
Mineral fiber is great stuff. I use it as blanket or board outside of 4" of frax. The next layer after that can be fiberglass. It is a wonderful outer layer for IFB ovens. I have put it on kilns and it really helps cut the electric use, slows the cooling, and makes the exterior much safer to be around.

Jordan Kube
03-12-2012, 11:54 PM
I wouldn't use that stuff for an inside face of an oven, super friable.

Allan Gott
03-13-2012, 12:33 AM
The mortar slurry does a good job of curing that. My front-loading kilns cycled daily for years with KFAC hot face. Total wall insulation was 2 layers of 2" KFAC 1900. The floor was one layer of 2300 degree brick and one layer of 2" KFAC. Upside is a kiln that gets to annealing temperature very quickly and doesn't have the heat sink of 2300 degree brick walls to prolong cooling after passing through the strain point.

Maybe I just got lucky, but it worked fine for me.

Tom Clifton
03-13-2012, 09:34 AM
The KFAC will be fine once you get through the burnout... The slurry will soak in and form a thin and durable seal for the face of the board once it's fired.

As it is going into a fusing kiln I don't think it will get hot enough to ever completely burn out the binder. (Not really big either - Inside just 14"x6"x6") Was wanting Skamol for its durability and light weight. (This thing needs to be able to fit in the trunk of my car and hauled around).

After sleeping on it over night I am still undecided if I should take it back and trade it in for some IFB and a box of frax. The intention is to make the floor out of IFB and do the walls and ceiling out of splits of IFB backed by frax.

Pete VanderLaan
03-13-2012, 09:57 AM
If you are fusing it will get hot enough. Most insulating boards have noxious materials in them that create acrid eye watering fumes when heated. You are never going to completely get around it Tom. Burn out with ventilation is the real answer. I just flat out leave my shop when it's happening.

Tom Clifton
03-13-2012, 10:05 AM
Thanks Pete. That will save me gas ($3.69/gal) on a round trip to Fenton at lunch time. I'll try skinning it in cement and if need be lay a hunk of kiln shelf on the floor as that is the part that takes a beating.

John Riepma
03-13-2012, 11:20 AM
I have used the K-FAC 1900 for backup insulation in an annealer behind 2.5" IFB and it works great. It does stink like barf while heating, (I believe that boric acid is used in the process) and it does give up a lot of water. It gets pretty crumbly after burnout too, but it's dirt cheap and works great as backup insulation when contained.

I was hoping to find a source for the Skamol V-1100 (600) board that Henry raves about to use as a lid for a pickup box I'm making. I only need about 3" x 16" x 20", and I have contacted the supplier but when I mentioned a quantity that small the conversation went silent on his end. I may try calcium silicate board or fraxboard, I was just trying to not have any exposed frax.

Pete VanderLaan
03-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Calcium silicate board also turns dust punky John. I absolutely hate that stuff. I think that the high temp board(2600) from thermal ceramics would do very well there at a mere $9.00 per sq ft. If you don't need a giant piece, Charlie Correll probably has some drops. I do too but not that much variety.

Pete VanderLaan
03-13-2012, 11:26 AM
Thanks Pete. That will save me gas ($3.69/gal) on a round trip to Fenton at lunch time. I'll try skinning it in cement and if need be lay a hunk of kiln shelf on the floor as that is the part that takes a beating.
*****
just turn it up hot and get it over with.

Jordan Kube
03-13-2012, 01:28 PM
Don't trade the board for frax. Just use it as back up insulation. I think you may be confusing your insulation materials.

Michael Mortara
03-13-2012, 02:26 PM
We use KFAC and Skamool. Not a big fan of the Skamool, used it as back up in the furnace, all the boards cracked, have to keep it below 1000F, never tried the vermiculite version. KFAC is great for back up, do not use it as a hot face, thats just not what it does best, nor do any of the cal-sil boards it seems.
We have gone back to Thermal Ceramics HD board for our casting ovens with the KFAC as back up.

Tom Clifton
03-13-2012, 03:21 PM
Don't trade the board for frax. Just use it as back up insulation. I think you may be confusing your insulation materials.

The frax doesn't have to burn out - no stink, no foul... However since I already have the board in hand I'm keeping it and will be using it as backup.