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Pete VanderLaan
03-02-2012, 02:45 PM
I have decided to offer my class in batch formulation and coloring glass again for the first time in seven years It will be held at my studio in Chocorua the week preceding when GAS was supposed to happen, June 6-9th in Boston in 2013. The second class will begin June 18-21st. We are about 2.5 hours north of Boston.

I am open to moving the dates up on the second class if there was a real consensus

The class will be limited to 12 students. The cost will be $1500.00 per person and deposits will be required. Second payments of $750.00 are due April 1st. Scott Benefield will fly in From Northern Ireland to be my able assistant. He has no accent yet. Eben Horton will be assistant #2. Eben has taken the class before and has assisted before. He speaks fishing.


We will calculate basic formulas, develop formulas and demonstrate how to make formulations adhere to specific Linear expansion coefficients and viscosities. we will melt lead based , fluorine lead based, soda Lime based, fluorine soda lime based, and zinc glasses for the studio. Students will learn to make their own silver nitrate and gold chloride solutions. I am not yet sure how many colors we will be able to ram through the Thurs-sun night class followed by the Tues- Fri class but we will attempt to make 40 colors, all compatible with SP87. Productivity does actually depend on student involvement so it's hard to estimate. Students will learn to use a dilatometer, a strain optics polarimeter with Hagy seals, to perform ring tests for compatibility and even doing simple cane pulls. Students will do the actual mixing of the formulations as well as charging them in the furnaces. Each morning will be a group meeting to discuss what went on the day before and what will hopefully happen on that day as well. This runs into the night. The last time we did it, I recall people being in the studio at midnight and at 6:00 AM. There are a number of people on this board who have taken the class and not a one is dead yet.

It will be first come, first served. Deposit will be 50%. Given the circumstances, I find it entirely possible that this class will not happen again..

Addendum: There will be a second class starting the Tuesday and ending Sat Morning after GAS ends since the first one filled so fast. Scott will TA both classes.

Pete V

Scott Novota
03-02-2012, 03:25 PM
I am in. Pete you can charge the deposit to my card or I can send you a check.


Scott.
.

Josh Bernbaum
03-02-2012, 07:31 PM
Hi Pete,

I would really like to reserve a space.
Can you let me know your mailing address in NH for where to send a check for this deposit?
Or I can call on Monday with credit card if you'd prefer.

Thanks!

Mike_Amis
03-02-2012, 09:19 PM
Put me on the list, I can call with credit card info or send a check. I do have an accent.

Jeff Thompson
03-03-2012, 02:15 PM
I will take a spot! Do you prefer deposits by check or cc?

Thanks for offering this very unique learning opportunity.

Pete VanderLaan
03-03-2012, 05:12 PM
I actually prefer checks. The record keeping is more straight forward. I will make a proposal for the times directly. It strikes me that given that GAS starts registering on Wednesdays and then runs Thurs-Sat with a biz meeting no one goes to on Sunday that it would be better to start the color class the preceding Friday and have it run through Tuesday morning with Tuesday being a transition day so people can go on to GAS instead of having a big empty period between both events.

The last time we did this we had everyone kick fifty bucks in to a kitty and it bought the most amazing lunch stuff for the duration. I would probably kick it up to $65 and have my friend Myles simply cater the lunches, which have always been spectacular.

I will also be making up a list of things you need to bring. Good respirator, tyvek suit, lap top if possible so we can load spreadsheet programs on to them...etc.

I'm at
Guadalupe Glass
354 Washington Hill rd
Chocorua NH 03817

George Bland
03-11-2012, 03:49 PM
I will attend if you still have space.

Pete VanderLaan
03-11-2012, 04:14 PM
With your registration, there will be three spaces left.

Ben Solwitz
03-11-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm in, I'll have my bank send a check... isn't the internet great?

Pete VanderLaan
03-11-2012, 05:42 PM
The address is above. The internet is actually quite amazing. I stop and realize when I was running the fire department in 1988 high tech was a repeater on a mountain top for radio systems. Cell phones did not exist. 1988.

Ben Solwitz
03-11-2012, 06:01 PM
Now I have internet on my phone that works on top of mountains.

Rob Williams
03-12-2012, 12:01 AM
Is there still an open slot?

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2012, 05:39 AM
There are still two unrequested. Based on deposits there are more. It is coming down to who gets their deposit checks in first.

Josh Bernbaum
03-12-2012, 09:06 AM
I guess I should ask to make sure you guys got my check okay...

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2012, 09:41 AM
I have it Josh.

Mike_Amis
03-12-2012, 09:53 AM
Did you get my check?

Drew Jaeger
03-12-2012, 11:42 AM
Pete,

As someone who down the road wants to melt his own color but am a long way from going there I was wondering if you plan on publishing the information you will be presenting in this class? I am sure I am not alone in hoping for this. Especially given that you may not be offering this class again. I am still trying to talk my wife into a Boston vacation in 2013 so I can make my first GAS but your class will be full (if it's not already full) by the time I'll know if I can make it.

Thanks,
-drew-

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2012, 12:12 PM
I do intend to finish my book. There is nothing quite like the class. It gets you past the "fear of Flying" that is hard to do. For me melting is a very visual process. You need to learn what you are looking at.Recipes help but the old German saying is "A good recipe can't cross the street." or as Croucher once cracked "Or across the studio". Lino always said "melt glass where it wants to be melted"

Everyone of them is right.

Barb Sanderson
03-12-2012, 12:20 PM
I have to say that I am happy to hear you are going to be doing another class. The price is so cheap given the knowledge you will gain from this one!
Barb

Eben Horton
03-12-2012, 12:34 PM
If anyone is considering taking this class, remember Harvey Littleton's saying "technique is cheap". I've taken a few classes in my career on glass blowing and left with some tricks, but when I took Pete's first class back in new Mexico, I left with more knowledge about glass than all of the classes I have taken out together. Glass holds many secrets, but Pete holds all the answers. Plus, Mary Beth is a wonderful hostess and his current studio is a very cool place to hold a class.

Ben Solwitz
03-12-2012, 12:39 PM
Pete has all the answers? Quit holding out on us!

Scott Benefield
03-12-2012, 12:48 PM
I have to say, I'm a bit surprised that the class filled as quickly as it did (we'll have to see if deposits follow as quickly). But then again, it's been a few years since Pete ran the class and I believe it is unique in what it has to offer--you can't, for instance, take a class like this at Penland or Pilchuck or Corning, or anywhere else that I know of.

It's hard enough to compile this kind of information on your own if you want to extract it from Scholes or Weyl or Volf, but none of those sources go into process and that's where an intensive workshop like this excels. It covers suppliers, setup, mixing, melting, testing, etc. in a hands-on way, which is good because you take in the information on so many different levels. And another advantage of any class like this over a book is the incidental learning: through off the cuff Q&A or conversations in passing, or pooling shared experience.

Plans are already underway to expand the facilities. Equipment isn't necessarily the focus, but it's useful to see how a good facility for safe handling and controlled melting is put together. Pete lives in a beautiful, remote part of the world and I'm really looking forward to getting back there and being part of the class.

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2012, 01:13 PM
Did you get my check?
******
It was in today's mail with the one from Jim Antonius. Thanks Mike. Keep those cards and letters coming folks.

There are concessions that will have to occur here compared to the big shop in Santa Fe. My current mixing room is hopelessly inadequate for groups so we will move it into the barn built in 1811 for the class. I am building a kiln shed outside off the south face for one melter so we can do the really nasty melts there. The big electric melter in side can't handle fluorines so it will be host to pots of clear and whatever else that can melt in that environment that people would like to see. I wish I knew everything. I don't know how to make all colors at all. I think John Croucher does some stuff better than I do and I in turn do lots of things better than they do. I will give you roadmaps, a compass and a full tank of GAS.

Drew Jaeger
03-12-2012, 02:09 PM
There is nothing quite like the class. .

I have no doubt of this. I (and pretty much everyone I know) learns better with hands on experience. But with as fast as the class is filling up I have no doubt nothing will be left by the time I could commit. I guess I'll just have to hope something opens up if it turns out I can make it. Maybe I'll just be standing out front with a cardboard sign around my neck. "Will work for glass knowledge."

Doug Sheridan
03-12-2012, 08:06 PM
Video tape the whole thing, wait a year or two, and sell them for $500.

Pete VanderLaan
03-12-2012, 08:09 PM
I am currently putting out some feelers on that. I think Scott is right about the sub conversations though. There's a bazillion details. Since I don't drink anymore, evening conversations aren't nearly as entertaining as they once were.

Ben Solwitz
03-12-2012, 08:35 PM
Too bad, more homebrew for the rest of us.

Pete VanderLaan
03-13-2012, 06:58 AM
I am very much hoping Dudley Gibberson will make a cameo appearance at the least for one of our two parties. He's about 90 minutes from here. I have not yet asked him but he really wanted to see some of these moly furnaces.

Rollin Karg
03-13-2012, 12:23 PM
This is a great opportunity to learn a lot about color making and glass melting in general. I went to the class a few years ago in Santa Fe. I had already been making color for years, but found if very useful. A book would be great, but there's nothing like hands on to get a real education.

Steve Stadelman
03-13-2012, 02:08 PM
Pete really does an amazing job.

Franklin Sankar
03-13-2012, 07:21 PM
I hope we can see some pics. I want to see if Dudley is real.
I will patiently wait on the book. It will be good.
Franklin

Ben Solwitz
03-16-2012, 05:19 PM
Did you get my check Pete? The bank says it should have gotten there 3/12.

Pete VanderLaan
03-16-2012, 05:23 PM
It arrived today. Everything is behind here.

Ben Solwitz
03-16-2012, 05:27 PM
Great. You think we could fit all these colors into the class:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU8k70kLHHZMexxH1u0oiKxg&feature=player_detailpage&v=Lxz0k7QCssQ#t=542s

lol.

Pete VanderLaan
03-16-2012, 06:04 PM
I did not look at the video but as I have said straightforwardly, I don't know how to do all colors. I indicated that I do some things better than others do them and vice versa. I have a definite procedure for how to go through the palette. It can't be done randomly. Once certain metals have been in a crucible, specific colors are eliminated for ever being melted in that pot no matter how much it gets cleaned.

Ben Solwitz
03-16-2012, 06:30 PM
I was just joking, if you look at the video there are like 50 of them, and many of them are barely different from each other.

Jim Vormelker
03-16-2012, 07:08 PM
Another vote for a class over the text. Mark Twain pointed out that the man who has grasped a cat by the tail and swung it about over his head has many time the knowledge of one who has only read of it.

I got more useful knowledge from that week that months of other training and experience. Would never have missed it.

Ben Solwitz
04-03-2012, 10:29 PM
Got any reading you would recommend before the class?

Pete VanderLaan
04-04-2012, 05:54 AM
I think that the opening sections of Glassnotes 4th edition are pertinent Ben, The parts on material, oxides provided etc and then Frank Wooley's sections on annealing and mine on batching. I am making arrangements to get several texts through Joe Peiffer for those who are interested.

There aren't other texts or at least I'm certainly unaware of them. The only other course that does any thing remotely like it is in California and after the entire class, one melt is done. One. I plan to totally immerse you in the melting and testing. What I teach is process more than anything else. Formula's are everywhere and as the Germans said "A good formula can't cross the street". That is because process is the key. Knowing when to back down on heat, when to pile it on. I have some formulations that are ready to use three hours after the last charge and that would eat the entire pot if left too hot at night ( done that). I have some that take two days to be ready.( still do that) . I teach you to read a formula and know what to expect from it. I teach you to look at melts, not clocks. I will try to write that text and hope to have the first complete draft ready before the class begins. I am getting enough interest that I am considering a second session after GAS.

I am going to ask Dudley Gibberson to come over and talk about small furnaces. I am trying to reach Frank who lives in Massachusetts and see if he will come up. It's all quite close back here. With GAS so close I may be able to get a few surprise people coming through the door. The hardest part is changing the shop around to accomodate the group. I work with just MaryBeth these days and I can be a real slob.

We went up the Causeway coastal run yesterday with the wind blowing in off the Irish Sea at about 40 knots. Just spectacularly beautiful in how raw it is. Houses built 25 feet from waves crashing on the rocks. It snowed lightly and is really cold. I am really looking at the "Troubles" hard and will take a tour of Belfast today with some republican Irish showing me and trying to give me a feel for those times when the Catholics were discriminated against and had their lands taken.. My Grandfather worked here at Harlan and Wolfe building the Titannic. He did not go on the maiden voyage as did most of his friends as the mechanical support team and they all perished. So I am going to the shipyards as well. The Cranes tower over the city. I'll be in Budapest Friday and then will really be out of touch I think.

Ben Solwitz
04-07-2012, 05:47 PM
Cool, I've had Glass Notes for almost 8 years now and have read it a few times, will definitely reread the color process stuff though. Sounds like an interesting trip, keep us posted.

Eben Horton
04-07-2012, 09:06 PM
Cool, I've had Glass Notes for almost 8 years now and have read it a few times, will definitely reread the color process stuff though. Sounds like an interesting trip, keep us posted.

if its 8 years old, the color chapter is not in it. You will need to buy a new copy from Henry Halem..

Travis Frink
04-07-2012, 09:48 PM
Cool, I've had Glass Notes for almost 8 years now and have read it a few times.

The color chapter is in the 4th edition along with a lot of other new info.

Ben Solwitz
04-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Ok 2006, six years is almost eight years :P

Tom Clifton
04-07-2012, 10:14 PM
Perhaps 2 months ago Henry was out of stock and I bought a copy of GlassNotes from Artco. I just Checked Henry's website and the book appears to be in stock and is only $20, which I believe it to be considerably less than it was. This is one heck of a value as it comes autographed none the less!

Ben Solwitz
04-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Don't remember where I bought it from, but my copy isn't autographed, maybe I'll bother Henry at the conference. Both of my copies of Ed's books are autographed, but I recall I ordered them directly from him on the phone.

I remember when I first read the color section in Glass Notes, I thought, 'holy crap it would be so cool to do that some day'. I had probably only been blowing glass for six months at that point.

Donna Milliron
04-10-2012, 03:28 PM
Hi Pete,

Any spots left in this class? If not, I heard rumors you might teach one after GAS. Lemme know.

thanks, Donna

Pete VanderLaan
04-11-2012, 12:41 PM
While I have just landed in Athens after five days in Budapest, Mary Beth tells me that we now have five people who would be wait listed so we are going ahead with plans for a second class. The first class starts on the Friday before GAS and the second one will be set up to start the monday after GAS. Sunday at GAS is sort of nothing happening except for a profoundly anemic business meeting that rubber stamps whatever the board wants and then it's done. We are north of Boston by two hours so it makes an easy transition. The class contents will be the same although I have some guests coming to the first class that should make it entertaining . We are very pumped about it at this point and are getting ready to pour concrete and are buying materials to build two additional furnaces solely for the class. As before, deposits secure the spaces. It's $1500.00 with a deposit of 50%. The first class filled astonishingly fast and the second one is actually doing the same.

Budapest by the way is an amazing city. The construction between 1860 and 1895 is so profoundly ornate as to be hard to describe. It' not just few buildings, it's 100's. The basilica for St Stephen is actually a building I would not have the remotest idea of how to build. It has quadruple flying arches and goes up about 65 feet. There is not a square foot that is not incredible.
I will spend a few days here and then go on to the islands for Orthodox Easter and then on to Ephesus and Istanbul.

Mary Beth is at home with the horses and dogs ( she went two years ago to visit our daughter) and can answer any questions about the class.

Bryan Flahiff
04-12-2012, 02:33 AM
Pete,
do tape it! what you do with it is up to you. I'd buy one, especially if the written info was included!!
B.

Pete VanderLaan
04-12-2012, 03:34 AM
I hope to have a written text before the class and have been talking to Joe about the taping but I am having a really hard time envisioning the taping part working cohesively. First is morning meeting, then The class gets divided into groups. One actually is mixing the days formulas, one is testing ring compatibility, one is doing Hagy seals. There are constantly people doing spreadsheet calculations for formulation. Scott valiantly tries to teach how to make ring tests hot (Which I find to be hard) . There are mandatory pull tests and annealing We inevitably have people wanting to pull cane and Murrini with all those colors which is a fun and excessive part of doing this. I let people make rod out of the colors as well but the melts are purposefully small so we can keep moving through a boatload of melts. I try to keep a larger pot of white for the cane people. It goes around the clock actually and I don't know how to really film it. My friend Myles caters lunch every day. Everyone chips in fifty bucks for the food and it's really good. We party at night. I will take those interested on a tour of an amazing antique car collection at my next door neighbors up the hill. Then there's the lake... kayaaks.. fishing, bugs, did I mention bugs? Bugs we have in more than adequate supply.

Scott Novota
04-12-2012, 10:29 AM
I am really looking forward to this class. Not only to get to rub shoulders with a bunch of glass guys that are way more skilled than myself but I will also get a base knowledge that I don't think is being offered anywhere else.

I honestly view this as a once in a blue moon kind of chance and will be damned if I will miss it again. Plus it will give me a base to be able to talk to Dave Boss about color without just nodding my head and rocking back and forth.

The whole thing just reeks of learning and that is exciting for a guy like me.

Steve Stadelman
04-12-2012, 02:01 PM
I will second what Scott said. This is an amazing opportunity and if you are even considering going you should beg, borrow or steal the money and go.

Dave Bross
04-12-2012, 09:44 PM
I'll second that thought also.

This is like Tom Fuhrman taking me around to see all the W. Virginia hand shops years ago.
It's one of my very favorite glass memories and there's no way it could be repeated now...they're just about all gone.

Scott,
If you want to, you're welcome to take that E&T calculator I gave you up there in case anyone wants it. It's open source so anyone is welcome to it. If I remember, I'll send you a better set of instructions for it.
Pete may have something similar/better for everyone, or you may be forbidden a calculator until you've done a few out by hand.

Don't worry about the nodding and rocking, although drooling could be a problem (kidding).
I'm not going to confuse you with unneccesary complexity and I really don't take myself very seriously.

Simplicity is the real elegance and over complicating things always struck me as a "baffle 'em with BS" to maintain status or exclusivity.

I always loved the phrase "If you can't explain it to a ten year old then you don't know your subject."

Greg Vriethoff
04-13-2012, 12:15 AM
...you should beg, borrow or steal the money and go.
The begging will commence shortly. Borrowing is no longer an option.

If I don't make it it's because I got busted.

Pete VanderLaan
04-13-2012, 07:41 AM
Everyone gets a program for calculating formulas . Bringing a laptop is viewed as a good thing but we will have spare computers and printers. I don't actually teach the E &T calculations since it's time consuming to do them by hand and time is very crunched in this class. I also use some different values for some metals than E & T did which are simply more accurate in real world measuring. What I have done is to arrange for all the students to get Milos Volf " A Chemical Approach to Glass" at a really serious discount thanks to the generosity of Joe Pfieffer who reprinted it. I will be contacting them individually about it. It is not an offer being made outside of the class attendees. My manuscript will come with it as well as formulas. My formula books are open source for anyone in the class. You even get to feed the horses carrots. Tractor rides... we'll see.

Everyone needs a twin cartridge organic vapor respirator (Make sure it really fits you) and a tyvek disposable suit which are pretty cheap at Graingers. I will have spare suits and I have lots of gloves and hairnets. The group photos are always priceless. I'm off to the islands and Turkey.

Pete VanderLaan
05-04-2012, 12:00 PM
I am really pleased to announce that Mark Peiser, Henry Halem and Dudley Gibberson are all appearing at the first class to add their collective wisdom to the show. Hugh Jenkins has said he wants to come as well and there are more. I have a few more invitations out. This should well be one of those seminal events. Sadly I can't coerce them in to staying for the second class. It's just for a day at the end.

Scott Novota
05-04-2012, 05:36 PM
This just keeps getting better.

Drew Jaeger
05-04-2012, 09:36 PM
Are the special guests going to be at both classes? This is quickly becoming a must-do item on my bucket list. As much as I hate the term bucket list.....

Pete VanderLaan
05-05-2012, 07:17 AM
No, they're not. It's because of the timing of GAS- Boston. I am starting the first class on the Friday before GAS and it ends Tues morning. GAS registration starts Tues and Wed. The conference ends on Sunday with the business meeting and I will start class 2 on the next Tuesday. I do plan to have class 1 videotaped and will get our guests on the tape.

Mark was wondering whether anyone had ever tried to teach this and I let him know this would be my fifth time. He was really excited about it and he is one of my all time heroes. Dudley was the person who got me to start melting from raw materials at all. Hugh did the melt program at Penland and has done yeoman's service on recuperation for decades. Henry is simply one of the prime movers in information exchange. It is a total honor to have them all descending on the class. I am trying to see if Frank Wooley can come since he lives close but is hard to get a hold of.

This looks to be one of those defining moments that GAS was once famous for. It is beyond my wildest hopes that it is coming to fruition. The second class will benefit from being a lot like the second mouse at a trap, which we all know is the one that gets the cheese.

Rosanna Gusler
05-05-2012, 11:32 AM
wow! i want to attend and i do not blow glass. need an extra cook or anything? rosanna

Sandy Dukeshire
05-05-2012, 01:15 PM
feed the horses carrots


well this just sealed the deal!!!!!

its really the best reason to crash, and always my favorite part of a visit.
just, please Pete, dont offer up any more trucks, let me drive the tractor, and give us a head start so we can book it out of there as Pringle may have been reported missing :)

Ro - (wink wink) zucchini bread

of course, i'm kidding.



kinda....

Pete VanderLaan
06-12-2012, 07:02 PM
I am down to one space left in class II as of June 21st. . Class one is full.

Eben Horton
06-12-2012, 09:13 PM
If you guys want a laugh, i thought color class I was this month, not next year. I had a place to stay lined up and everything. durrrr!!!!!!

Pete VanderLaan
06-13-2012, 06:10 AM
I sometimes think that even 2013 is too close. I have an outbuilding to build for the gas furnaces and the addition to the original studio needs finishing as well. Then there's the text of the book and a lot of melting between now and then.

So, you can come early if you want.

Franklin Sankar
06-13-2012, 07:25 AM
Eben see what u made me do . I read Pete post as "I have an outhouse to build for the Gas". Sorry Pete having no idea why you would want more time I blamed the outhouse. How about if you put some cameras in the studio and then sell tickets for people in the out house who want to see the show. The Devil made me say that so you can strike me down.
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
06-13-2012, 08:41 AM
I believe Joe Pfeiffer is videotaping the class. He will handle that however he wants. I want to see the video interview with Henry. Close ups of kissing the ring are priceless.

Eben Horton
06-13-2012, 09:52 AM
Pete, i will be visiting my dad at some point this summer.. i'll give you some warning and will give you a day or 2 depending on my schedule...

John Riepma
06-13-2012, 06:40 PM
Which one of you will be wearing the ring?

Pete VanderLaan
06-13-2012, 06:46 PM
It's Henry, always Henry. Have you ever seen the Codpiece of accomplishments he wears at GAS conferences? We joke about the ring.

I really worship these guys. They were my heroes when I was a kid. Having them come to this event is an amazing treat for me. I haven't done anything but say I will teach what I know. The sun is going down. I have asked Scott Benefield if he will do the interviews for the video.

Joe Pfeifer
06-14-2012, 12:46 AM
I believe Joe Pfeiffer is videotaping the class. He will handle that however he wants. I want to see the video interview with Henry. Close ups of kissing the ring are priceless.

Looking forward to taping the class. Can't wait. Pete, perhaps we could come out sometime, a few months before the event, and get a look around, and make some plans on what you want on the DVD, (in addition to the ring kissing).

Scott Novota
06-14-2012, 09:37 AM
Joe,

I have a couple of "Go Pro" cameras that we use to video surfing, snowboard, etc... They are pretty slick little pieces of gear actaully. Would you like to me to bring them so you can get your b-roll/angles? Seeing how I will be bringing the laptop that I use to edit when I do video we could even cut them down on the stop.

Just let me know it would not be a problem to toss them in my gear when I come up.

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2012, 07:59 PM
You can certainly bring what you want but the real environment you are engaging in is calculating glass formulations, melting color, measuring strain and expansion and testing for it. Scott put it so well to me that it is an intense short immersion in an obscure alleyway in glass. He said it was what Pilchuck did before it developed it's mythology which in turn totally changed the way classes should run. I taught there right at the tipping point from the inception phase to the fame phase.

Hopefully the class runs without Internet ( we do have wifi ) or TV with conversation and discovery happening everywhere you happen to look, either in the shop or at the dinners. Joe will have his hands totally full trying to capture the intensity I have seen each time I have offered the class. The participants really are doing the work with the guidance of the teaching assistants who have all taken the class in the past.

What I need you to bring is a laptop, an organic vapor twin cartridge respirator and a disposable tyvek suit. I do have spares of the suits and I have the gloves and hairnets. For lunches, Myles is catering but we will all chip in about $75.00 each for what works out to be incredible food for lunch and a few dinner parties.

At this point I plan to have the class start on the Thursday before GAS and to end Monday Morning. My Guests will hopefully come on Sunday evening and be here through Monday. Participants from both classes are welcome here on that monday. I can't get the troops to hang out for more time than that . It all will change I'm sure.

Dave Bross
06-17-2012, 01:37 PM
Dave,

I see you're doing some testing but not sure what you've got? Have a look at the "testing" link from my website below.

Dig through the old posts here via search. There's a huge amount of info on what you want to know.

I'll throw you a bone....have a look at these...and there's plenty more.

http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=4382 (fun with color additions)

http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=3397 (the mini course on expansion and compatibility + history)

These pages on my website may help:

http://www.davebross.com/GlassTech/g...tytesting.html

http://www.davebross.com/GlassTech/polariscope.html

johnrschaefer
08-16-2012, 04:29 PM
Pete,
Am a complete rookie regarding the making of glass, but have worked in stain glass for almost 20 years, copper foil technique. Recently retired and have a very strong interest in learning to make sheet glass similar to Schlitz and Lins, which I believe is fluorine-sodium based. Sounds like this class could be very helpful. Is there still room? Your thoughts?
Thanks,
John Schaefer

Pete VanderLaan
08-16-2012, 05:14 PM
Currently both classes are full John. I am developing a waiting list.

Pete VanderLaan
09-25-2012, 08:57 PM
I have an unexpected opening in class number 2. I need a $750 dollar deposit to hold the space and the second payment on April first next year.

Pete VanderLaan
09-27-2012, 07:19 AM
The space has been filled.

Pete VanderLaan
12-28-2012, 03:33 PM
As of Dec 28th, I have someone who is not going to be able to attend the class. If there is an interested party in getting that slot, let me know and I will put you in touch with him directly

Pete VanderLaan
12-28-2012, 04:52 PM
The space has been sold.

John Van Koningsveld
12-28-2012, 05:25 PM
Gaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!

Pete VanderLaan
12-29-2012, 08:03 AM
I am not keeping a wait list. it's just a lot of trouble. People say they want to do it and then a spot comes up and they're hard to get a hold of, or they no longer can do it. The whole point of the non refundable deposit was that I not have to constantly track down people.

So watch the thread.

Rollin Karg
01-28-2013, 02:25 PM
Yesterday I cleaned out my color pots and loaded them for today's work. I was looking at the pile of colored glass and thought it might be of interest to the people going to Pete's class.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/RollinKarg/018265F5-528F-4CA8-A0D4-7B611A07FA9D-4923-000006DCC3ED0B97.jpg

Pete VanderLaan
01-28-2013, 02:43 PM
That looks a lot like the last salad I had in China Rollin. The blue stuff is a kind of cabbage.

Rollin Karg
01-28-2013, 02:52 PM
I heard they always feed the foreign devils the blue stuff !!!

Joe Pfeifer
02-07-2013, 04:52 PM
Info for all attending the color melting class. Some of you might know, I deal in industrial surplus. I think I have obtained enough Dupont safety suits for everyone attending the classes.
These will be donated. (free). I have the following sizes:

25 each 2X TY127SWH2X002500 With hoods and footies. Dupont TYVEK
25 each 3X NG120SWH3X002500 (no hoods or footies). Dupont ProShield® NexGen
25 each 6X TY122SWH6X002500 with hoods and footies. Dupont TYVEK

Hopefully you will find your size in there. I will ship before the classes to Peter.

I will also bring some copies of Volf: "Chemical Approach to Glass" for sale ($100 wholesale for class attendees) If you are sure you want one, let me know, so I bring enough. Also, will bring a few copies of the "Hellmer's Secret Batch Book" and Stone's "Firing Schedules for Glass" for those interested. Please let me know in advance.

Jeff Thompson
03-16-2013, 04:36 PM
Joe,
I would like to reserve 1 each of the above mentioned books. Please let me know what the total is.

Kindly, Jeff

Pete VanderLaan
03-16-2013, 04:44 PM
Joe also had a few copies, and only a few, of the Turingen melt recipes book edited by Finn Lyngaard. Finn passed away about two years ago and there has been no success contacting his partner about possibly doing a reprint. It's another very useful book and it will be impossible to find that one.

Pete VanderLaan
03-18-2013, 12:47 PM
I have an unexpected vacancy in the second class. If you are interested let me know and I will put you in touch with the person trying to sell the space.

Pete VanderLaan
03-18-2013, 03:37 PM
That space has been filled.

Jeff Thompson
03-24-2013, 01:45 PM
I'm looking for a ride from Boston to Pete's Studio on June 5th. I could rent a car myself but I would prefer to chip in on someones rental.

Kindly, Jeff

Pete VanderLaan
03-24-2013, 02:16 PM
Are you flying in just then? If so, you can get a bus to either West Ossippee or to North Conway right from Logan or you can do it from South Station.

Boston is much more of a pain than Manchester but it does have that bus up rt 16.

Bob Held
03-28-2013, 11:42 AM
Hi Pete, Great that you are running another and maybe final workshop on glass melting and colors. Susan Peterson at USC, had us doing 'line blends', triaxials, etc., for two solid years. She was tough, but one smart ceramics(read glass) chemist.
I made my ceramics and glass classes do a once a week glaze/glass theory class. Had lots of interesting results. Most of them hated it. I got excited and developed a routine of having seven hot colors available in the hot shop at all times.
Back then we used a 'slide rule' to calculate the COE to two decimals. My eyes still hurt. So I did up a spread sheet on the New Apple 64 to calculate a batch from a formula and the the COE. You could then make adjustments and bring the fit back to what you wanted. That was on 'floppy disks'.
I'll see if I can find it and send it along if it is of any use.
Bob Held

Pete VanderLaan
03-28-2013, 03:40 PM
Bob, you were actually one of my earliest influences in color from back at an NCECA conference ( I think in Toledo) when you did the 5% phosphate opal additives to a clear batch using as I recall Bone Ash 21. When it was right it was gorgeous stuff. Dudley was another early influence. These days we use Appen for calculations and compare them to E&T. John Croucher from Gaffer Glass has been an enormous help continually as we start working up to 26 % lead glasses Which I have been working on for the Shanghai connection.

Joe Pfeifer
04-09-2013, 10:28 PM
Pete, Should those attending the classes be making reservations at hotels/motels nearby soon?

Pete VanderLaan
04-10-2013, 07:12 AM
I know that Mary Beth has been emailing to all the paid attendees Joe and many booked space at the caterer's house. I think you weren't on her list because she's the accounting type collecting the fees. It's still before school lets out and things don't get busy here until July.

Joe Pfeifer
04-25-2013, 11:25 AM
Peter has given me the opportunity to make a video of the first week color melting class. I will be there with a good friend Dave Carlson, who has the equipment, experience, and editing software. I will be "directing" interviewing, and essentially instructing Dave where and when and who to shoot.

I would be interested to know who will be attending the first class so we can research and know you better. If there is anyone attending that would not wish to be included in the video, which will be sold to the public, let me know. If you have a website(s) which shows your work, and would even like to prepare a few short video segments we can edit in with the class video, you are welcome to offer these. Photo stills of your works would be good too. I think some personal info and background info on those attending would make the video even more interesting. As far as including some extra segments and photos, etc. the second class could be included this way too.

We will respect anyone's wish for privacy, etc. while producing the video.

Please let me know if you will be there, and what you would like. Any suggestions from anyone on this forum will be welcome.

Joe Pfeifer
801 809 5453
joetron (at) gmail

Scott Novota
04-25-2013, 11:45 AM
I will be at the first class but putting me in your video as a "person of interest" is like interviewing the ballboy for the Yankees.

Jeff Thompson
04-25-2013, 12:20 PM
Great idea! I will participate in any capacity. Here's my segment of Oregon Art Beat from a few years back:

http://www.americanfieldguide.com/programs/artbeat/segments/view/696

Feel free to check out my website, too: http://www.thompsonstudioglass.com/index.html

Pete VanderLaan
04-25-2013, 01:53 PM
I don't think you have to be an expert in any way to be in the video interviews. People have written and asked what they should read on the subject and I honestly say I'm unaware of anything on the nuts and bolts of this stuff beyond what Frank Wooley and I wrote for Henry Halem in Glassnotes 4th edition. This class is it.

So, in that capacity, I think talking to Joe about what you want to achieve is appropriate. There aren't a lot of people who actually are willing to try to do this. Having Mark involved is simply incredible and I still pinch myself over him saying he wants to be here. He's one of the people with the shoulders we all get to stand on.

Doug Terrell
04-29-2013, 08:51 PM
Will the video be for sale outside of the class?

Joe Pfeifer
04-29-2013, 11:19 PM
Yes, the videos will be for sale. We won't have prices until after we edit them and have a final product.

Josh Bernbaum
05-02-2013, 08:12 AM
Also, will bring a few copies of the "Hellmer's Secret Batch Book" for those interested. Please let me know in advance.

Hi Joe,
Could I ask to reserve one copy of this book that I'd buy from you during the first class?
Thanks,
Josh

Joe Pfeifer
05-02-2013, 11:18 AM
Yes, I will be bringing (or shipping to Peter) many of our books for sale at the class. I will ask Peter to sell copies to the 2nd class attendees. Thanks!

Pete VanderLaan
05-02-2013, 12:12 PM
Hellmer does not teach you how to drive but it is a great set of road maps if that makes sense.

Mike_Amis
05-15-2013, 07:39 PM
Im thinking of driving from Bloomingtion IL to Pete's for the first color class so I can stop over in Toledo on the way and maybe do some other stuff after the class wile I'm out that way. If anyone else is close to me or would be on the way that wants to share ride let me know, though I've got a truck so i guess there's only one other good seat.

Also will an iPad work for the computer?

Pete VanderLaan
05-16-2013, 06:48 AM
Also will an iPad work for the computer?
**********
I have no way of knowing that Mike. We will be loading you with the calculating spreadsheet as a CD and you will have wi fi in the shop. I don't know how the bandwidth will be with everyone hooking on at once.
I think there will be a few spare laptops out there that we own.

You should go to Henry's and drag his ass over here. He's on the golf course way too much for his own good now. Once he started shooting under 90 he became intolerable. He had his 75th birthday on the fifth of May.

Mike_Amis
05-16-2013, 07:51 PM
Okay ill bring it any way, My wife needs our laptop for work so I may have to borrow one.

I was thinking of stopping by Jack Schmidt's on the way over I meet him at ISU when Jon Miller Had Him Henry and Fritz over for an old school workshop. It was a very fun time.

Ill bring some pictures.

Pete VanderLaan
05-16-2013, 08:04 PM
You don't have to have a computer to learn what this class is about. It's a tool that stores information and collates it. Your eyes and ears are the most important tools you will need. A #2 pencil would help too... we have yellow pads I'm pretty sure.

Eben Horton
05-16-2013, 11:04 PM
iPads are good for takimg notes and taking pictures. Penultimate is a great note taking app.

Mike_Amis
05-23-2013, 09:56 AM
After some practical considerations :) I've changed plans and I've decided to fly to the class instead. I'm flying into Manchester on the 5th at 12.30 pm and flying out Monday 10th at 2 pm. Is anyone interested in splitting a car rental?

Joe Pfeifer
05-29-2013, 11:31 PM
I am already bringing copies of the books we are selling to the classes. I was wondering if anyone wanted me to bring any refrasil? I'd rather "pre sell" it, than just take a bunch in hopes it would sell. It is heavy, and would be impossible to bring a roll with me. But, if anyone wants a few yards I'd pack it with me. I'll be there the first week, but I am willing to leave pre-sold product for the second week class. (It would just save you some postage). Let me know before Saturday, so I can cut and package it for the trip. I hope this is OK Pete. If not, delete the post.

Dave Hilty
05-30-2013, 09:47 AM
[QUOTE=Joe Pfeifer; I have the following sizes:

25 each 2X TY127SWH2X002500 With hoods and footies. Dupont TYVEK
25 each 3X NG120SWH3X002500 (no hoods or footies). Dupont ProShield® NexGen
25 each 6X TY122SWH6X002500 with hoods and footies. Dupont TYVEK

Joe, I have no idea what 2x, 3x or 6x mean as to sizing? I'm hoping to avoid purchasing Tyvek since Grainger only sells 6 packs. I'm medium size so can I make do with something from the suits you have so kindly offered?

Pete: can we assume that the 75 Joe is bringing will cover the entire two weeks of participants? Or should I just buy to be on the safe side?

Eben Horton
05-30-2013, 12:25 PM
I would like some refrisil. I need to build a new knock off bench.

Pete VanderLaan
05-30-2013, 06:15 PM
[quote=Joe Pfeifer; I have the following sizes:

25 each 2X TY127SWH2X002500 With hoods and footies. Dupont TYVEK
25 each 3X NG120SWH3X002500 (no hoods or footies). Dupont ProShield® NexGen
25 each 6X TY122SWH6X002500 with hoods and footies. Dupont TYVEK

Joe, I have no idea what 2x, 3x or 6x mean as to sizing? I'm hoping to avoid purchasing Tyvek since Grainger only sells 6 packs. I'm medium size so can I make do with something from the suits you have so kindly offered?

Pete: can we assume that the 75 Joe is bringing will cover the entire two weeks of participants? Or should I just buy to be on the safe side?
***************
We got suits. Don't forget the respirator and the fly fishing gear.

Eben Horton
05-30-2013, 07:35 PM
Good luck catching Pete's trout. Ha!!!

Pete VanderLaan
05-31-2013, 06:29 AM
I am going to be kind and just send him to various streams and ponds.

I have several Hawks that were very good at catching trout here and my pond is not currently open as a restaurant for the local wildlife.

Dave Hilty
05-31-2013, 08:11 PM
Either your pond has been drained or you have fished it out leaving nothing for the locals. New Hampshire certainly makes it easy to purchase a license on-line.

Pete VanderLaan
06-01-2013, 06:50 AM
I quit putting trout in there since I was getting these spring run offs laden with salt from the road and the trout can't take it. If I have time before the class, I'm going to go to the hatchery and dump about 25 big ones in there for the summer. They keep the bugs down and I love watching them rise.

There's an abundance of lakes and streams here. Mosquitos too.

Dave Hilty
06-01-2013, 08:37 AM
The nice thing about being "older" is you don't have to worry about the long term effects of dousing yourself with 100% DEET.

Rosanna Gusler
06-01-2013, 10:46 AM
Ha! If it don't make your lips numb it don't work. Our yellow flies call it marinade. R.

Greg Vriethoff
06-01-2013, 05:03 PM
Had to douse myself in 100% DEET for nine months straight living in West Africa.

Still came down with malaria twice.

Eben Horton
06-08-2013, 06:53 AM
For those unfortunate souls that are not part of the class and are wondering how things are going, I will share what we have been working on.
Firstly, Pete makes some of the most wonderful chocolate chip cookies I have ever had in my life. That recipe is going home with me hopefully. Then there is this no kneed bread Mary Beth has been developing over the years, and has just perfected it. Pete's son has been brewing Belgian ales and there has been much discussion about yeast counts and carbonation. I also need to find a feng shuay (sp?) tape measurer to insure that the glass I make fits harmonious dimensions.

Franklin Sankar
06-08-2013, 01:19 PM
No wonder Pete liked my coco balls. next time i will stock him up real good. So did you make any glass as yet? There is a law about torture but don't worry about it, just keep the news coming. We want to hear all the stories. Some random pictures would also be nice. It would be like tightening the thumb screws. I love the pain. More more.
Franklin

Joe Pfeifer
06-10-2013, 11:32 AM
I'd just like to tell everyone at the first week class how much I enjoyed the time there, and the incredible opportunity to meet so many great people. Even though my place was there to video record the event, I learned some very useful and interesting information. I really appreciate Pete and Mary Beth giving me such a unique honor. Thanks!

Jeff Thompson
06-13-2013, 08:54 PM
Wow wow wow, what an experience! It was a complete honor to get to work and learn with such a great group of talented artists! It was a huge effort by everyone involved to host this group of glassblowers and I felt privileged to be included. I truly left with the sense that "this is possible."

Mary Beth: you opened your home and your heart to each one of us! It felt like I was at home the entire time. Your enthusiasm was infectious and I adore you! Your sense of artistry is equal to anyone I know, and this was something I never realized about you before. Thank you thank you thank you!

Pete: you are very generous with your knowledge. I left the class knowing that color making is completely possible for me..... necessary for me. You laid out the system for developing one's own palette of colors, tweaking them and assuring that they will make artworks for the ages. Your commitment to the success of the class was apparent when you stayed up all night, on several nights, babysitting the color melts. There was an unsuccessful color melt and mostly successful ones and this drove home the reality of the color making process: there will be failures and you showed us how to learn from that. Thank you for bringing all of us into your reality for a time.

Eben & Jen: You spent tons of time loading batches into the wee hours of the night to ensure the colors were ready the next day. You helped guide us through a process that seemed foreign at the beginning, but then became more and more familiar as the days progressed. Thanks for making so much cane and bar for the class participants!

Scott B: You spent the most time dressed in the tyvek suit and wearing the respirator. You guided each one of us through the measuring and mixing of complex color formulas and you did it with a sense of ease. I was glad to get to chat with you and I really appreciate your sense of the traditional and the contemporary in glass art. The class was improved because of your guidance.

Mark P: Your involvement in the class was very pleasant surprise. You've been involved with color making at least as long as Pete and it completely shows. Your artworks in glass seem to capture the essence of what glass wants to naturally be: so many of us are working to push glass around, to block it, to paper it, to form it where we think it ought to go, but somehow you've developed a sense of confidence with the medium that allows you to release that need for control and allow the glass to be what it wants to be and then freeze that moment in time. It was a joy to see the process of experimenting with your titanium white formula, to see how a formula gets worked from a ground-floor level and how to process though a completely new formula.

Joe: you have rediscovered important texts regarding glass color and made those available to all of us. Within those text are lifetimes worth of avenues worth exploring by using the techniques Pete taught us. Thank you for your generosity in publishing these obscure texts!

To the class attendees: I'm honored to have shared such a moving experience with so many talented and entertaining peers. It felt like we all dropped the bullshit so common among ego minded glass heads and we all just learned and worked, and laughed together. There were times when our heads were swimming with over saturation of new knowledge but we all preserved, absorbed and learned! There were locals (Nathan, just 10 miles down the road) and there was Eveline from the other side of the globe. It was precious to share the commonalities of frustration and triumph that only professionals in the glass art world could comprehend, from pesky annoying clients to the mysteries of our new paths in the medium of glass. I was completely impressed by the high caliber of artistry & skill displayed by each and every one of you. Thank You!

Now I'd like to share some photos I took:
First: these are the color furnaces Pete built for the class: Mini and Miti. Mini holds one 40 lb pot and two 13 lb pots. Miti holds seven 13 lbs pots. Pete provided exact formulas for, and we melted, the following colors: Pete's Guad Clear base, Lead Clear Base, Flourine white, gold purple, gold ruby, light honey, cad sel red, tweety bird yellow, robins egg blue, silver opal, butterscotch, dark cobalt opaque, silver peach, copper ruby, peacock blue, kitchen sink black, silver luster, peach flourine and titanium white!! WOW!
3833

Testing compatibility of 2nd titanium white against the base clear glass:
3834

Most of the participants:
3835

examining a successful melt:
3837

Color experiment by me on the final day of class. This beer stein is composed of an initial gather of copper ruby, then a gather of silver luster, then two gather of clear. The handle is solid gold ruby and might of been more brilliant with a clear core as the color is so dense it appears black. Funny thing is the silver luster would be clear if not for the reaction from touching the copper ruby. Eben: it holds two bottles of beer, I "tested" it!
3838

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2013, 05:41 AM
Was there anything about the class that you liked?

( The silver luster has to be cooled and then heated to strike) We missed a lot of processing points) and that was an extra dense gold ruby so I'm not surprised it came out black handled. Nice looking though!

Franklin Sankar
06-14-2013, 06:01 AM
If you pulled the black will it look red as it thins out?
Thanks for the stories Jeff, I enjoyed reading about those historic moment.
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2013, 07:57 AM
The powder from this is like coal dust.

No one ever mentions the food, or Myles. She'll be crushed. Where's the Love?

Doug Sheridan
06-14-2013, 09:17 AM
I'm still struggling to understand the scope of what just happened. The food was sensational to the senses. What a treat to have her catering this for all of us. She cared a whole awful lot. The classes and the exposure to so many people and ideas are unforgettable. I didn't know what I didn't know. Now, I kinda know what I don't know.

Scott Dunahee
06-14-2013, 10:31 AM
Do I see Aaron Frankel and Ian Gilua (sp?) ?

BSD

Eben Horton
06-14-2013, 10:33 AM
Pete's black is actually pretty boring. I prefer Kuglar black because it picks up wonderful shades of purple and green.

Scott Novota
06-14-2013, 11:28 AM
That cup color is much more striking in person. As good as that picture is it really falls short when compared to seeing it in person.

Jeff had us all in stitches the whole time. I have this vision of him making those amazingly huge sea turtles with the silver luster over copper on the backs. I want pictures when it happens...

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2013, 11:37 AM
Do I see Aaron Frankel and Ian Gilua (sp?) ?

BSD
********
Yes.

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2013, 11:42 AM
Pete's black is actually pretty boring. I prefer Kuglar black because it picks up wonderful shades of purple and green.
*********
It's the TIT ( and that stands for Titanium you morons) 12 white that is amazing me. We cannot get it to diffuse. We have gone incredibly fine and it's still strong. Mark said he ran 2% cobalt in it and it showed no blue. I'll try it, maybe second class.

we just averted disaster in that the propane tnk was down to 175 gallons. I had called it in and no one had come. I called and they said they were coming tuesday and I told them I would be dry by Tuesday. No fuel on class day one.

The driver just filled it to 85%. It's like sucking air out of a tire right now.

Eben Horton
06-14-2013, 12:27 PM
When I checked the tank for you, I said it was at 35%. You said that means 350 gallons. I don't think that you can take the gauge as gospel because on my tank, when I get down to 20%, it can be empty in a couple of days. I really loathe not having natural gas. It can be a chore to constantly monitor the tank.

Eben Horton
06-14-2013, 12:29 PM
I loved how soft the tit white was. I think this white is going to be very popular

Scott Dunahee
06-14-2013, 01:49 PM
********
Yes.

Nice. I studied with them in Madison.

Jeff Thompson
06-14-2013, 04:13 PM
If you pulled the black will it look red as it thins out?
Thanks for the stories Jeff, I enjoyed reading about those historic moment.
Franklin

Kitchen sink black, but I prefer the name "Pete's Black", is a remarkable color. I learned that by adding lead monosilicate into the batch formula the glass becomes able to absorb much more colorants while still maintaining proper LEC. Someone pulled a stringer that was approx .5 mm thick and I examined it closely. It retained its pure black nature and wasn't transmitting any light.

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2013, 07:33 PM
My kitchen sink is white actually.

lead helps with "Packing" the glass. It's really similar to an old high school experiment in super saturation where you add salt to a solution and then it won't take more, so you heat it and you can get more to go in. What we want is to try to replace the lead with strontium if we can. It's right there on LEC and it 's workable in mole chemistry which Mark is teaching me. Even if we did a partial replacement, that would be good.

This class was major for me because of the multiple levels. I get to learn new stuff too. I love it. Mark by the way is learning as well. We had a most excellent adventure together to be continued for sure. What an amazing person. Have I mentioned that before? Best in decades.

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2013, 07:39 PM
I loved how soft the tit white was. I think this white is going to be very popular
**********
We aren't done but it's really going well. It grinds perfectly next to clear. I cannot believe how dense but turning it into bar may be a challenge. It looks to be something that eats crucibles. It may take AZS if we really produce this stuff.

Eben Horton
06-14-2013, 08:04 PM
Perhaps you have to treat it like a fluorine and keep it cold?? It felt very watery at 2050

Pete VanderLaan
06-14-2013, 08:36 PM
Not for long. It turns to a fiberglass goo if kept cool for very long. It rearranges itself if heated. About 2200F is about right.

Eben Horton
06-14-2013, 09:05 PM
That's crazy.. Glass is such an amazing material.

Rich Samuel
06-15-2013, 06:22 AM
With apologies to Jeff:

Pete VanderLaan
06-15-2013, 06:35 AM
That's pretty funny!. We actually did lose power for about three hours just before the class and I had just put a charge of a cad fluorine in the pot on the mini. The last time that happened, we lost power on Lucille which was a furnace nine feet in the air for casting and it had the same formula in it. That destroyed the furnace with the AZS throwing stones the size of silver dollars. After consuming a sizeable volume of distilled spirits, we realized we had a little generator Bren and I rebuilt the prior year. We got it, turned it on and saved the melt which had fallen to 1450F.

The heat vision stuff works but my glasses use a lot of power. You will see me looking at melts like that a lot. I'm willing molecules to move around. For Mark, they move if he just mumbles.

Franklin Sankar
06-15-2013, 07:09 AM
All the gathers you were looking at looked red.did you make any other colors?
Joke aside, if it ok to tell , what were you looking for?
Franklin

Pete VanderLaan
06-15-2013, 07:55 AM
I'm looking at or for veining structures in the melt, particularly right after casing a gather. Things happen then. They get called nucleation points. Better to say places where crystal growth gets started. You can see it early on. It's either that or I'm looking for my car keys again.

Greg Vriethoff
06-15-2013, 02:21 PM
Nice. I studied with them in Madison.

I gotta get back over to Elements and talk to those guys again.

Scott Dunahee
06-15-2013, 10:49 PM
I gotta get back over to Elements and talk to those guys again.

Yeah. They had a hell of a shop when I was out there last . Steve was still in business then so it was a while ago.

Good guys. A little weird, but who isn't?

BSD

Pete VanderLaan
06-16-2013, 06:52 AM
Mark has a bumper sticker that says" Critical Thinking is an endangered species". I'm with that. This group showed that we're not dead yet.

Thanks to you all.

John Van Koningsveld
06-16-2013, 12:46 PM
No one ever mentions the food, or Myles. She'll be crushed. Where's the Love?

It has taken me a while to recover from the incredible experience of this class. To be in a group with so many like-minded people was amazing. Thank you Pete, Mary Beth, Mark, Scott, Eben and Jen, and Joe Pfeifer.
Let me be the first to show some love for Myles. First, she took me and 3 other complete strangers into her house and basically gave us free reign. We came and left as we pleased, and the door was always open. I could never trust as she trusted us. I could ramble on, but I will leave it at this: comfortable accommodations with an amazing host!
She prepared a huge breakfast and lunch for all 4 days, and worked with all of the special dietary needs of the students. There were omnivores, vegans, pescatarians, gluten intolerants, and maybe others with dietary restrictions. Something special was prepared for each of these people, and it was all incredibly tasty. She even made sushi, for the love of Jeebus! And the desserts...this woman is gifted. And when I asked her, she said it was "just a little hobby". Thank you Myles.

Doug Sheridan
03-07-2014, 05:58 PM
I had a request to post pics of our very first few color melts. I figured this thread was the place to post them. The silver opal does something different every gather. The copper ruby cane is toxic-strength red. We are still just goofing around with them. Some day we'll get serious again.

Brian Graham
03-09-2014, 11:26 PM
Beautiful color!

Doug Sheridan
03-10-2014, 08:11 AM
The color is very sensitive to everything you do.
Brian asked if I'd increased the silver. No.
What happens when you do?

Rosanna Gusler
03-10-2014, 09:00 AM
OOooo magic. r

Pete VanderLaan
03-10-2014, 09:02 AM
It will turn a fairly dark brown. Even a 1/2 gram change influences it. If you increase it enough, it turns again and will plate out in reduction. Industry hates silver glasses because they are so wildly unpredictable. I hear them referred to as "fugitive" in the trade. That's quite apt. Thermal history on using that particular glass is really important. When and how long you reheat it determines an awful lot in those glasses. In the Peach version of it, annealing time and temperature changes everything. I anneal at 935F with these glasses for three hours to get get a strike. If it's shorter, the strike either doesn't happen or it's diminished.

Anytime you are dealing with glasses that form colloidal strands, or for that matter emulsions as do the phosphates, the history in the lehr is really important. Thus, industry hates it.

Brian Graham
03-12-2014, 11:10 PM
Here's some silver coloured glass melts I did in early 2013.

A glass marble that represents a single pot gather - this was .1% AgNo3.
Group of three pieces with high AgNo3 content. ie. .2% - tans / grays.
A detail view of colour variation on a vessel side - this was .1% AgNo3.

Melts also included varying amounts of black tin, red copper oxide and potassium bitartrate. Each batch of this stuff was a fun surprise. I really enjoyed it when it was in the pot for a while and would give me very faint fugitive turbid silver distortions of light. Sometimes less is more...

Eben Horton
03-13-2014, 07:55 AM
Nice Brian!!

Lawrence Duckworth
03-13-2014, 08:04 AM
Here's some silver coloured glass melts I did in early 2013.

A glass marble that represents a single pot gather - this was .1% AgNo3.
... ....this is a gather??? and it looks like this straight out of the pot??

are you saying this comes out of the pot like this??...

Doug Sheridan
03-13-2014, 08:25 AM
Yes, and a thousand other looks as well.

Pete VanderLaan
03-13-2014, 08:27 AM
Indeed that's how it looks lawrence. But there are kickers. Initially, the top one inch is affected this way. If you initially gather this is what you get. Gather very much and you get the grey that is in the second photo. If you went into the pot straight up and down, you would get perfect vertical streaks. The actual glass body used really matters. A trace iron content really helps. Copper brings out the pink tones. The blues come and go. Just because it works at 9:00AM does not mean it will work at 11:00AM. When I did the formulations for Josh Simpson on his "Corona" series (in which he lamely claimed he had found his old formulas) the platters were dipped in the glass and then, importantly they were cased in a reducing glass body afterwards. If however you tried to make very many of them, the mix tends towards the uninteresting gray. Later, if allowed to rest, it would bring the color up again. So it sucks for production.

It is so variable that industry has almost always steered clear of it. It doesn't work nearly as well in a color rod as it does from the pot but I find that to be true really of most colors. Some people have made great use of it as rod and others just can't get it. Making pots full lets you be excessive with color instead of guarding it.

Lawrence Duckworth
03-13-2014, 11:29 AM
so who else knows about this?

Pete VanderLaan
03-13-2014, 01:27 PM
There are several people making silver glass for the 104 trade utilizing the silver. I don't know what their level of understanding the chemistry and what induces what but they do make some nice 104 color rod. Several people make silver colors in 96. I worked on some, not all. Interestingly, I did sell pots to one of the 104 guys for a time and it became very clear to me that the individual did not understand how to make and evaluate a Hagy seal since the person was fusing the samples from top to bottom which totally missed the point of the test. His test assurances were certainly worthless.

I taught it for both of my classes and I've always been fairly free with it here following the Nick Labino philosophy of how hard you have already worked at it. I don't think of it as some super secret coloring method but the level of ineptness in studio glass just never ceases to amaze me. It's really discouraging. You have to be making batch glasses to make it work consistently well. I used to make silvered glasses in Pittsburg Plate back in 1970 and I think that worked well because of the iron content in the plate.

Back when Henry was putting together the 4th edition of "Glassnotes" there was inevitable discussion by some that printing "how to stuff" in the book would affect their sales potential. Henry made the argument, and I think correctly that the exposure in the book would bring way more clients to the specialist at whatever the subject than withholding the information would protect. Most people would rather buy a color rod than to make pot glass.

When I wrote the section on batch which became completely co-mingled with Frank Wooley's section on annealing, we both realized that we were skimming the surface and could write an entire book on the combined subject. There was not the space in Glassnotes and we were on a timeline. So, we wrote down the tickler essentials for the serious minded. The upshot of doing the section has never done me any harm in the sense of lost biz and I don't know of anyone else who has lost biz either. All in all, information dissemination is a good thing. What it isn't is a cure all for the intellectually lazy. making colored glass takes a committment to the pursuit. It indeed costs money to do it and it takes dedication. What Brian and Doug and Eben have been doing involves the risk of spending time and money to improve their skills.

Improving the skills is satisfying and frustrating in that it's ongoing. I know more and less than I thought I did a year ago. I loved Doug Sheridan's observation after the class when he said "I did not know what I did not know." Amen

Brian Graham
03-13-2014, 05:15 PM
Pete - Thank you very much for all of the info you have freely shared on this forum. My experimental melts started from info that you posted. I melted the silver glass for almost 2 years and never tired of it. Each time it was different. We referred to it as "magic" in the shop...."you putting some magic on that?"

Here is a great thread from 2006 which served as my starting point:
http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=4382

I also used some red iron as a nucleating point but failed to mention it in my last post. In my last silver melts, I was starting to play with manganese - the foaming boil over blues made quite a mess though and forced me to turn my color furnace off.

Pete VanderLaan
03-13-2014, 05:46 PM
I got to stand on the shoulders of people like Bob Held even though he never knew it. Mark Peiser and Chuck Savoie have always been there. If a pump is going to be primed again, you have to leave a little water for the seal in a glass or it won't prime ever.

I don't really like manganese. It just causes trouble. I do sometimes wonder how selenium would affect this type of melt in tiny quantities. It has five valence states so it should make it pop like it does about everything else it touches. I have read at some points that Mercury really plays well in silver glasses but I've yet to screw up the courage for that one. If I want a purple, I use lead and gold. There , I said it.

Doug Sheridan
03-23-2014, 06:55 AM
Cobalt silver opal. The shard came from a moil in the pipe stand bucket, which has an entirely new dimension and value. It's tough to throw it out now, but I'll rent time to sort through it for $100/hour.

Lawrence Duckworth
03-23-2014, 07:08 AM
........crazy

Pete VanderLaan
03-23-2014, 07:42 AM
I actually think that the biggest nuisance I had when I was doing the color rod company was people coming around and going throught the cullet piles from the pipes.

Doug Sheridan
03-23-2014, 08:05 AM
$$ per hour would have paid for a lot of extracurricular activities.

I've only made about 20 rods, I've gotten much better, but I really would rather be doing something else. It's heavy, hot, and time consuming. To do this all the time would suck! One or two a day is enough for me. Do you start more than one at a time? Or watch TV? I better understand the level of your commitment to selling color now. Who does this for the big guys selling color rod? Are there videos of this process?

Rosanna Gusler
03-23-2014, 08:13 AM
that looks like the water out where the gulf stream and labrador current meet.

Pete VanderLaan
03-23-2014, 08:19 AM
Gaffer now uses a robot for their billets. For Gaffer, I believe that working there is pretty much a straight up job locally. Making rod is in fact quite difficult if you are doing them 20 inches or longer and getting them even. Fluorines were the hardest and leads the easiest. My problem with employees is really that everyone wanted to be Lino and so they had their opportunistic eye on the door. Quality control is the hardest part actually. Leaving a bubble in a rod is a motivational downer.

When I do make rod, I tend to make about 15 at a time. I work alone. Generally, the top 5/8th of a pot will make decent rod and then it's time to make frit and that really has to be done right or it's got bubbles. Owning a crusher is pretty important to frit success and the last time I looked at the price of a chipmunk I was astounded to see $6,700.00! Mine new was about $2K in 1998.

It indeed is better to have someone else starting a rod and someone else finishing as long as you don't run into each other. They don't do well being rushed, particularly the colloidal glasses. I sell the remaining cullet off and it usually pays for the melt. I couldn't recommend anyone getting into the biz seriously unless you want to have a bunch of Chevy Malibu's with government plates in your driveway for the rest of your life. The guys making 104 color at $40.00 lb seem to have a captive audience. Remember that success in this business relies entirely on ignorance from your clients.

Pete VanderLaan
03-23-2014, 08:22 AM
$$ per hour would have paid for a lot of extracurricular activities.

I've only made about 20 rods, I've gotten much better, but I really would rather be doing something else. It's heavy, hot, and time consuming. To do this all the time would suck! One or two a day is enough for me. Do you start more than one at a time? Or watch TV? I better understand the level of your commitment to selling color now. Who does this for the big guys selling color rod? Are there videos of this process?
**********
And you haven't even gotten close to the issue of clean pots. One color certainly can destroy another, forever. Get good at changing pots. Needing new ones constantly is what got me in the crucible business.

Eben Horton
03-23-2014, 09:33 AM
Speaking of changing pots. Gaahhhh!!! I already tore through 2 of thise little puppies. I'll be ordering some tomorrow.

Pete VanderLaan
03-23-2014, 10:46 AM
Thin pots are problematic. I really prefer the 11 inch with the 1 inch thick wall as a workhorse. My new pot furnace is being designed to handle two of them which is more than enough. Experience tells me if you make more than two colors at a time, you won't use them.

Hugh Jenkins
03-23-2014, 02:19 PM
When you make bar, can you clean the moile and use it to regather on so that you don't lose that shard every time? Or is the time spent too frustrating and not worth the amount of glass saved? With striking colors that can make for a dense core.

I have gathered some small bars over the years and can keep them real clean up to two good sized gathers on a small moile. It always seemed to be the outer gathers that had the bubble problems. I didn't have to touch the first two gathers so I always thought that the marvering or paddle caused the problems in the larger bars.

However, I very often see bubbles in the bars I buy that are more associated with the core or center gather, which I think comes from starting with bare metal gathering iron. No company is innocent in this area.

Then there is the folding issue that comes in waves from just about everyone. That seems to come from having a gathering contest in who can make the largest bar. Quality be damned. I would rather have smaller very clean product than the large bars with problems any day.

Pete VanderLaan
03-23-2014, 02:49 PM
Given the size of my pots being 75 lbs, I do reheat the moils for each rod as it's precious. The scrap in barrels happened when we made 350-400KG per day. From where I sit, I see the interior bubbles differently and I think it often comes from making the rod too fast and not letting it cool gradually on the rod before putting it the box. Gas can come out of and stay out of solution. On some stuff when Kugler was making cast rod, the stream would attenuate and there would be a little line of ruinous bubbles down the core of each rod. I do think that the outgasssing issue we talk about so frequently here comes into play when rod is made. Too short between gathers, too long between gathers all create issues. I take a proof of the pot glass every five gathers and blow it out eggshell thin to look for cords. If I see them, I switch to frit. BUT, if you're introducing the bubbles yourself and don't realize it, that won't help.

I like my rods to weigh in at about.75KG. I do get larger on silver opals since they work well larger. Dense Black, about .7KG. I no longer make fluorine rod because I use a moly. Every color has a different viscosity it seems and some really don't form well into rod at all. I hate doing transparent copper rod. I'm glad I do it infrequently now.

Greg Vriethoff
03-23-2014, 04:50 PM
I actually think that the biggest nuisance I had when I was doing the color rod company was people coming around and going throught the cullet piles from the pipes.
"Shardies" is what my prof. in grad school liked to call them.

Pete VanderLaan
03-23-2014, 05:07 PM
One of the single most pathetic experiences I think I've yet to have was a class from an unnamed school back in the rockies that came to visit the shop. This must have been twenty years back with no names. I had been pulling some murrrini to show the younger set what we could do with color pots and I had sections which had broken on the floor and were not annealed.

I turned around at one point near the end and there was the professor of that class, not a young guy, down on hands and knees gathering up the remnants of the demo. It was just sad and pathetic and every not good emotion I could have thought of at the time. I wonderered what the kids thought. All those years haven't changed my view of the moment. While I know it was like gold to him, the gold was the class itself. the options were right in front of him to make that gold common.

Hugh Jenkins
03-23-2014, 08:19 PM
I hear you on the gassing out of bubbles in the bar. I actually did reheat the bars I made before putting them away. It is harder with the larger bars and that may be the explanation. Inside is cool, outside is marvered, and the layer in between gasses if the whole thing is not reheated enough. Another point for smaller bars.

Doug Sheridan
03-24-2014, 05:02 AM
Experience tells me if you make more than two colors at a time, you won't use them.

I will have four color pots in the near future and my hope is to not buy very much color if I can get away with it. Also it will enable us to do lots of testing which I think is important given how new we are to this process. The quality of the color should make up for the lack of variety of color.

And, Pete, this means you could hold future color melting classes here. Eh?

Pete VanderLaan
03-24-2014, 07:34 AM
A lot of colors are not easily made. I think you can reduce your color purchases but probably not all. As an example enamel white is a really nasty glass to make. The arsenic content can be 8-10 percent. Arsenic in this country costs about $40.00 lb and Chinese Arsenic costs about $2.00 lb but can't be imported.
I get my enamel white from East Bay for less than it would cost me to make it. Golds on the other hand cost tons less but getting the lead is a chore.

Having four pots for a color class and fourteen pots for a color class is a big difference. Having four pots of color for yourself is a lot of color.

Pete VanderLaan
03-24-2014, 07:44 AM
I hear you on the gassing out of bubbles in the bar. I actually did reheat the bars I made before putting them away. It is harder with the larger bars and that may be the explanation. Inside is cool, outside is marvered, and the layer in between gasses if the whole thing is not reheated enough. Another point for smaller bars.
****************
Way back when, bars actually were smaller. I think Kugler average about .5 KG per rod.

I reheated three times before putting up fluorine rod. I hung them up, walked around, looked at things, then heated until it just sagged. Wash rinse repeat. No bubbles but if you just put away a fluorine rod that was flawless in the gathering before it struck, if it wasn't reheated would look like swiss cheese the next day when I sawed a rod from end to end and exposed the core. Big big bubbles.

Doug Sheridan
03-24-2014, 08:37 AM
We've spent $25k a year for color the past few years. Is that a lot? It seems like it. I know I'm tired of paying that much. I realize I will have to buy some, like the white, but at this point I don't foresee picking up much frit for a while.
The color class idea was a joke.

Pete VanderLaan
03-24-2014, 09:08 AM
I'm appalled at what people spend for color. You story is pretty typical. 25K per year. You can make a lot of custom color for that.

I don't think the class idea should be a joke Doug, not at all. For me it's a balance of what I can offer over what I need to get paid to do it. Penland wanted me to teach the class there some years back and I had to back out because I would receive $500.00 a week. I virtually couldn't afford it even though it would have been an honor to teach at Penland . They had two color pots.

You know how much the class cost and how many students were in both sections and you can do the math between the Penland request and reality. It took me three months to prepare for it on top of what I did learning what little I know about coloring the goop in the first place. Now I've sold both furnaces and the trailer, which is even more heavily buried under snow than it was three weeks back.

If I were to do a small class it would have to be focused on an advanced issue where we were all learning at the same time. Scott suggested just that master class.

We just made the nicest Peach Phosphate opal this morning. Sort of like Honey, sort of peach, mild opal translucence. Too bad Selenium costs so much. It was not a melt I'd done before.

Doug Sheridan
03-24-2014, 09:22 AM
Anytime you want to conjure up a class that could use our set-up, go for it. It wouldn't cost me very much at all, so I'm sure it would be able to pay you the bulk of the income. It would just be a normal week for us, and there's plenty of conference space away from the public. Did I mention the breweries?

Pete VanderLaan
03-24-2014, 09:26 AM
You would need a place that distilled Irish Whiskey. It costs more than you might think. Start buying Selenium.

Scott Novota
03-24-2014, 11:05 AM
Doug/Pete,


If you did a class in Va I would come again and take the second furnace with me.


Scott.
.

Pete VanderLaan
03-24-2014, 06:42 PM
You'd have to buy it and the trailer from Doug.

Philip Yamron
02-17-2015, 10:18 PM
Hey Pete, any plans for a color class in the not to distant future?