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Virgil Jones
04-22-2012, 09:19 PM
I couldn't find this in the board search I did...
I'm wanting to put a door closer connected to a floor mat switch.

My new moly has a Stadelman type door system. The door frame hangs from two large gate "wheels" that run on a track on top of the furnace rolling sideways. The bottom of the door frame rolls on one smaller wheel that runs on a lower track.

What I would like is to open the door manually and have it close by itself. So I thought to have a electric/neumatic/hydrauliic(??) cylinder always wanting to keep the door closed. When I step to the furnace to gather I could step on a mat that would turn the door closer off so I could manually open the door.
Then when I step off the mat to walk away the switch would actuate the door closing mechanism. I would not want to have the door dependent on electricity to stay closed...just to close it.

Anybody have this set up? Ideas on where to find a mat switch? Also what kind of mechanism or cylinder to use?

I've used air cylinder on a moldboy in the past. But didn't know if an air cylinder would bleed fast enough to freely open the door manually and rapidly.

Also thinking other issues could arise with hydraulic.

This would have nothing to do with the door kill switch.

Kurt Johnson
04-22-2012, 10:50 PM
I couldn't find this in the board search I did...
I'm wanting to put a door closer connected to a floor mat switch.

My new moly has a Stadelman type door system. The door frame hangs from two large gate "wheels" that run on a track on top of the furnace rolling sideways. The bottom of the door frame rolls on one smaller wheel that runs on a lower track.

What I would like is to open the door manually and have it close by itself. So I thought to have a electric/neumatic/hydrauliic(??) cylinder always wanting to keep the door closed. When I step to the furnace to gather I could step on a mat that would turn the door closer off so I could manually open the door.
Then when I step off the mat to walk away the switch would actuate the door closing mechanism. I would not want to have the door dependent on electricity to stay closed...just to close it.

Anybody have this set up? Ideas on where to find a mat switch? Also what kind of mechanism or cylinder to use?

I've used air cylinder on a moldboy in the past. But didn't know if an air cylinder would bleed fast enough to freely open the door manually and rapidly.

Also thinking other issues could arise with hydraulic.

This would have nothing to do with the door kill switch.
McMaster-Carr has several different types, most operate at low voltages, but you could use a relay. Granger may also carry them.

Kurt

Sky Campbell
04-22-2012, 11:36 PM
Why half way? I run pneumatics on my furnaces and always have can't imagine having to open and close doors by hand. The curent cylinder I'm using has been on three different furnaces and still just trucks along.
I understand your idea but if you use automatic closer you will have to energize that load as you open it creating more resistance.

Pete VanderLaan
04-23-2012, 05:54 AM
Back when I was building this sort of stuff, I simply used a cylinder to open the door via a foot switch (Peiser used an infra red beam) and then simply had a counter weight to close the door once the pressure was off. That sort of system relies on the door hanging straight up and down.

The disadvantage to powering it shut is that the air cylinder will plow through anything in its way, like glass on the door or the ledge.If it doesn't power through, then it gets stuck, which usually causes you to turn up the pressure on the cylinder and when it comes unstuck, it really rams the door around. If you are a really clean loader gatherer, that will work but my experience tells me that sort of stuff jams easily. I think it was Steve Smyers who suggested hiring a homeless person and avoiding the hassle. It certainly made John Bingham mad when he suggested it. ( Hot Glass Information Exchange 1978).

The trickier part is that things are going to shift and expand and torque pushing all your alignments off. You will do a good deal more tinkering than you may care to.

I think you would be better off pulling the door shut than pushing it if you insist on using a mechanical device. What may actually work better for you is a temporary day door made out of a high temp fiber. We used to do that when we made color rods. It just hung on a frame and had a notch in it for gathering so we never opened or closed at all. It was pretty efficient.

Virgil Jones
04-23-2012, 08:15 AM
Kurt
I’ll check them out, thanks.

Sky
I work by myself and open the door between 30 and 56 times an hour depending on what I’m making that day. I don’t do any multiple gathers. I have used a pneumatic on my old moly furnace in the past with a clicking foot peddle. I found the opening part too slow and when I repeatedly tried to adjust the setting it opened to aggressively and banged the door. Hand opening is not a problem, I would like to just walk away after the gather.

“you will have to energize that load as you open it creating more resistance” That’s the part I could not figure out…how to work that into a hand opening / automatic closing.

Have you been able to get your door to open rapidly without banging?

Pete
For years on my older tank furnaces I used a piece of 1 x 4 for a foot peddle to open the rolling doors and a counterweight to close them. This was o.k. but could bang things both open and closed. The tanks were just run on venturies with a blower and were “tanks”…bang away!! With the moly furnaces I would prefer to be more delicate. The problem is being delicate and speedy.

I have enough adjustments with the Stadelman type door and have set the tracks up to also be very adjustable. If things move I can vary my closing. If I stick the door (rarely) I can just dump my piece and fix it rapidly.

“You will do a good deal more tinkering than you may care to” Hell, Pete, I do a lot more tinkering, fussing, fuming, and working in the studio than I care to.
Unfortunately, though retirement beckons, it is oh, so elusive!!!

Pete VanderLaan
04-23-2012, 08:42 AM
retirement is for lemmings.

Sky Campbell
04-24-2012, 12:27 PM
For what it's worth here is one of our pneumatic systems in operation. It is set for fairly quick opening easily adjustable depending on what I'm making that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC-DpuPVNmg

Virgil Jones
04-26-2012, 06:38 AM
For what it's worth here is one of our pneumatic systems in operation. It is set for fairly quick opening easily adjustable depending on what I'm making that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC-DpuPVNmg

Thanks, Sky. This set up definitely opens quickly. Can I contact you and find out the specifics of the set up?

Sky Campbell
04-26-2012, 10:01 AM
Thanks, Sky. This set up definitely opens quickly. Can I contact you and find out the specifics of the set up?

You betcha. Catch me after this weekend sometime and I'd be happy to give you part #'s and suppliers.
352-538-6722

Thomas Chapman
04-26-2012, 11:04 AM
While the adjustments (fast to slow) occur on the 2 valves on the cylinder, it is the footswitch that makes all the difference. I have 2 or 3 in use. Two are really sweet (also pressure adjusted at the filter-dryer-regulator) and infinitely adjustable. The last one (economy model) was a slam-bam sucker no matter how you adjusted the control valves at the cylinder (actuator). Depending on the design of your system, counterweighting can be helpful (as in my "iris-style" g.h. doors). Get the right footswitch.

My favorite is the Schrader-Bellows model # 53191-20~~ (last 2 numbers burned or worn off): low profile, been in constant use 15 yrs.

Sky Campbell
04-26-2012, 11:25 PM
Good info Tom. I maybe running a little diferent but I love what works.
The three way valves I use exhaust at the pedal. I use a 1/16" line off the regulator to the pedals and the ram. The valves are clippard n3 serious micro valves with a bush button. I have a set screw on each pedal for fine tuning. Originally when built I used to large of air lines which made it hard to controll when I went to the micro valves and 1/16" hose it dialed in fairly easy.

Virgil Jones
04-27-2012, 06:27 AM
Thanks Guys. I appreciate the info!