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David Trent 03-12-2010 08:35 PM

annealer wiring diagram?
 
new here.

hoping to get some guidance on the basic components of the wiring of an annealer.

like, I know there are elements on one end, and 220V on the other, and computer controller somewhere in the middle, but what are all the relays and ohter parts, where do they go...how does it all fit together?

is there a drawing or diagram out there that shows this?

thank you.

Pete VanderLaan 03-13-2010 08:32 AM

Pg 242 of the 4th edition of Glassnotes shows an interesting drawing of a simple wiring diamgram Fritz did about forty years ago, but it's not very good.

Think of it like this:
Power comes in in two hot legs that go into a switching mechanism called a relay. You put the two hot leads on one side of the relay and then the outbound power on the other side which gets hooked to both ends of your 240V element. The relay is controlled by a solenoid if it's mechanical. Mercury relays last longer than mechanicals but are getting harder to legally use. When power is applied to the solenoid on the relay, the circuit closes and power flows to the element you have. When power is withdrawn, the circuit opens and power to the element shuts off. The controller has a thermocouple input on it which measures milliamps from the thermocouple. Your controller has adjustable settings on it which when the milliamps are matched with the thermocouple, power goes from the controller to the solenoid on the relay. When the controller to the gets turned on, or off,that in turn powers or shuts off the element.

It's just a big assed light switch with some bells and whistles. That's actually true of a moly furnace as well. It just has a rectifier in line which breaks the sine wave up into manageable bite size chunks.

If you can, just go and look in someone's control panel and follow the wires. It's not hard if you are remotely mechanically inclined.

David Trent 03-14-2010 09:53 AM

Thank you for the detailed response Mr. VanderLaan. I do not have a copy of that book at the moment, but I just ordered it online. you mention that the diagram is not very good, im hoping somebody here has a simple one or could draw one that is usable and post it. thanks again.

Pete VanderLaan 03-14-2010 10:49 AM

You are way too polite to survive in cyberspace David. I don't have the patience to draw stuff and then make prints of it in computerland. I am sure some deft soul will jump in here. Any simple electricity made easy book would show a diamgram of the principals I'm talking about. Follow the written word.

Dennis Hetland 03-14-2010 12:36 PM

This link will tell you way more about control circuits than you ever wanted to know. http://www.thelearningpit.comhttp://www.thelearningpit.com

Ben Solwitz 03-14-2010 03:23 PM

Check out the Digitry GB1 manual, it has a bunch of diagrams, starting around page 33:
http://www.digitry.com/pdfs/gb1aman.pdf
The Watlow 982 manual has more technical diagrams, if that's what you're looking for:
http://www.watlow.com/literature/pro...2001-12-07.pdf

David Trent 03-14-2010 06:44 PM

thank you, Ben. the GB1 document link you sent has the exact type of diagrams I'm looking for, several good ones actually. what is a good source for the parts needed to re-wire an annealer like the relays, controllers, etc.?

Pete VanderLaan 03-14-2010 07:26 PM

DuraLite in Riverton Ct 888-432-8797 will make you elements to order and is the single best source of them I know of.

Controllers
***********
Dwyer (Love) controllers is one supplier www.love-control.com
Fuji www.fujielectric.com
Digitry www.digitry.com

Relays
*************8
Continental Industries int
www.cicontrols.com/contact

Payne Engineering
www.payneng.com

As well as Graingers and McMaster Carr

The book you have bought from Henry Halem "Glassnotes" will have extensive sources of suppliers in the back.

Dennis Hetland 03-17-2010 04:15 PM

lead wires
 
What type of wire goes from my terminal block to the pig tails of my wire elements? Is it type PFAH or TFE? I'm sure it must be nickel or nickel alloy, but what type is it and where is the best place to buy it?

Jordan Kube 03-17-2010 04:23 PM

842 F Braided Wire

Great for internal wiring of an oven, this
flexible single-conductor wire withstands
temperatures up to 842 F. Also called lead wire and Type MG wire,
it has a stranded nickel-plated annealed copper conductor with an
insulation of glass-reinforced mica tape covered with a braided fiberglass
jacket. Temperature range is 40 to +842 F. Color is tan. UL
recognized and CSA certified. Maximum continuous length is 100 ft.

I use this stuff from Mcmaster Carr in a pinch.

Lawrence Duckworth 03-17-2010 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Trent (Post 87015)
new here.

hoping to get some guidance on the basic components of the wiring of an annealer.

like, I know there are elements on one end, and 220V on the other, and computer controller somewhere in the middle, but what are all the relays and ohter parts, where do they go...how does it all fit together?

is there a drawing or diagram out there that shows this?

thank you.

I’m new too, is there any chance you might post photos of the build?

Dennis Hetland 03-18-2010 12:06 AM

Thanks Jordan.


That's some nice looking equipment Lawrence.

Rick Sherbert 03-18-2010 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Trent (Post 87049)

Mr. VanderLaan..

.........:)

David Trent 03-28-2010 12:52 PM

what are "SSR"s and "SCR"s, and where do they fit into the equation?

Ben Solwitz 03-28-2010 01:09 PM

Solid State Relays are electronic switches, like a mercury relay, but all electronic. Silicon Controlled Rectifiers are solid state devices for controlling current, they limit the power going to resistive heating elements like those used in moly or kanthal a1 furnaces or annealers. Most people don't use them for a1 elements but you can get better element life because you can run the elements continuously at 50% or 60% or whatever instead of switching them between 0% and 100%.

David Trent 03-28-2010 01:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
i think this is the best diagram I've seen so far. Neither the halem nor the giberson books have a wiring diagram, which is surprising. this diagram is for a furnace not an annealer but the general principal i think is the same. a couple things about this diagram confuses me:

what is the plug for? i get that the 110v receptacle powers the temp controller and the 220v receptacle powers the elements but i don't get the whole plug thing on the bottom left. (or, the 220v plug powers the elemts and i don't get the whole 220 receptacle on the bottom right)

Ben Solwitz 03-28-2010 01:50 PM

It looks like the 220v plug on the left is powering the whole system and the system is providing 110v and 220v receptacles on the right.

Dave Hilty 03-28-2010 02:17 PM

This is essentially the way mine is wired. Ben is right. The plug is the power supply to the entire circuit feeding 110v to the Fuji, the relay that breaks power to the elements when the door is opened and the 110 V receptacle. Don't know what you might need that receptacle for but the easy answer on the 220 V. receptacle is it's an easy way to pick up power from the control circuit to be fed to the elements. Off the shelf hardware store dryer plug & wire package is what I used to feed the anealler elements. It's convenient to use a compatible 220 v receptacle mounted in the control box to plug in the elements.

David Trent 03-28-2010 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hilty (Post 87439)
This is essentially the way mine is wired. Ben is right. The plug is the power supply to the entire circuit feeding 110v to the Fuji, the relay that breaks power to the elements when the door is opened and the 110 V receptacle. Don't know what you might need that receptacle for but the easy answer on the 220 V. receptacle is it's an easy way to pick up power from the control circuit to be fed to the elements. Off the shelf hardware store dryer plug & wire package is what I used to feed the anealler elements. It's convenient to use a compatible 220 v receptacle mounted in the control box to plug in the elements.

i think i got it. please tell me if i am mistaken:
i orignally thought the 110v receptacle was used to plug in the adapter for the fuji, but the plug/adapter was not being shown in the daigram. i think i realize now this is not the case. we are not sure why the 100v receptacle is being used.

so the entire system is powered by the 220v plug in the bottom left. the fuji is running off just the L1 leg of that 220v, which is only 110v since its just one leg.

since the fuji doesn't draw much, L1 can still be used to power an element, which is "the top one" in the drawing.

L2 powers the bottom element

the 220v receptacle is just a cheap way to close the circuits on the other end..

Dave Hilty 03-28-2010 07:01 PM

If you really are feeding two separate elements rather than one as I have, then you need to wire the ends of the elements in parallel to L1 & L2. ie. L1 feeds end A of elements one & two while L2 closes the resistive loop as it is attached to ends B of both elements.

Pete VanderLaan 03-28-2010 07:39 PM

Pg 242 of Glassnotes. It's fritz's drawing from 1970 . Get a magnifying glass. It's a terrible drawing.

Eric Miller 03-28-2010 09:20 PM

David-

The diagram that you seek can be found at the beginning of Disk 2 of Mark Lauckner's 40 lb wire melter videos. He actually draws the diagram on a big piece of butcher paper, explains it, lays out the components on the paper, and then spends 30m or so of video explaining how to wire it all together.

In fact, the .pdf you posted is from somebody's (Drew Fritts?) variation of Mark's 15 lb wire melter, which he doesn't sell videos for anymore.

Everything will be the same for your annealer wiring except the way you program the controller and the elements you use.

Get Mark's videos and all your questions will be answered, they are $45. I would have paid twice that for them.

Hope this helps.

Rick Wilton 03-28-2010 11:55 PM

in that drawing why is there a SSR AND a mercury relay. The SSR appear to only be used to turn the MDR on and off. Why not loose the MDR ( they are illegal now anyway in many places) and just run two SSR. That's how I wired my stuff.

Dave Hilty 03-29-2010 08:52 AM

The ssr controls the 220 feed to the elements via the 220 v. receptacle. The MDR isn't controlled by the ssr, it breaks the circuits so no voltage flows to the elements when the door is open. (see the microswitch actuated by a dog or whatever on the door of the annealer). SSR's leak voltage even when open so they don't provide the complete break in voltage that a mechanical or mercury relay will.

Rick Wilton 03-29-2010 11:06 AM

DAve,

Got ya, then why is the SSR on a 10 amp.


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