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-   -   pastoralli secrets needed (http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=11811)

Victor Chiarizia 12-20-2017 08:18 AM

pastoralli secrets needed
 
so can anyone help with sticking murrini on a ceramic pastorali please. i'm using a corundum plate and the murrini are sticking to the wash thats on the plate. i'm trying to get a full fuse/tack to roll up the glass onto a collar. i have kiln wash and bentonite available. i think there's too much wash on the plate first off. we heat and rotate the plate several times before the rollup. thoughts? vic

Eben Horton 12-20-2017 08:58 AM

15 years ago I bought some cast iron plates. Not once have I ever had a problem with sticking, spalling or anything. Ceramic plates get hot quick, are pourus and are brittle. The only upside I can see is that they are light.

That said. Have you tried ceramic paper? I think that is bomb proof, but dusty.

Marty Kremer 12-20-2017 09:17 AM

Have you tried Bullseye's kilnwash?

Art Freas 12-20-2017 10:13 AM

Most of the time sticking is because the wash was put on too thick. The wash should be really thin when put on, really thin, like watered down milk. And lots of coats.

David Patchen 12-20-2017 11:05 AM

Of course, there's lots of ways to skin this cat, but once you get it dialed, you'll rarely run into this problem again--until the plate needs re-washing. Here's blog post I did on this (since I get asked it a lot).

http://davidpatchen.com/content/how-...ne-and-murrine

Hope this helps. And keep your heats short!

Pete VanderLaan 12-20-2017 11:58 AM

Well written David. I have put a link to your site in Antiques and Classics on the subject unless you object. If so send Louis the Leg breaker to my winter quarters.

I will print it out if you don't mind, attribution of course.

Josh Bernbaum 12-20-2017 04:20 PM

For murrini, I think it helps to torch the glass tiles from above between heats to help the heat build in the center tiles and also to prevent the plate from overheating. Also flipping the whole sheet like a pancake (after it's fused at least a bit) can help. When I worked for you years ago Victor, I remember your GH ran quite hot. While I think that helps a lot of things go quicker, I also think that may contribute to the tiles sticking to your plate..

Victor Chiarizia 12-20-2017 07:41 PM

interesting you remember that Josh. i do run my hole a bit hot. thanks for the sticky pete and david. vic

Kenny Pieper 12-21-2017 08:06 AM

I was shown and use an almost opposite approach to what David has explained. I like for the wash to be really thin on the surface. To this end I soak the shelf first so that when I apply the wash it doesn't dry up right away on the surface. This also allows the wash to soak into the poors of the shelf which in my view is a plus. The wash is a really thin mixture of equal parts silica, alumina hydrate, and E.P.K. clay with water added. Just after applying the wash while it is still wet it hardly looks like anything is on it. After drying it in the garage it is fired in the gloryhole and by this time there is a thin layer of the white wash visible on the surface. I usually give it a light wipe with a rag to dust off any loose particles on the surface before the first use. It will last 6 months to a year with regular use. Before the next application I will grind off the surface of the shelf with the diamond flat grinder.
Now I am not saying this is any better just different.

David Patchen 12-23-2017 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Pieper (Post 137808)
I was shown and use an almost opposite approach to what David has explained. I like for the wash to be really thin on the surface. To this end I soak the shelf first so that when I apply the wash it doesn't dry up right away on the surface. This also allows the wash to soak into the poors of the shelf which in my view is a plus. The wash is a really thin mixture of equal parts silica, alumina hydrate, and E.P.K. clay with water added. Just after applying the wash while it is still wet it hardly looks like anything is on it. After drying it in the garage it is fired in the gloryhole and by this time there is a thin layer of the white wash visible on the surface. I usually give it a light wipe with a rag to dust off any loose particles on the surface before the first use. It will last 6 months to a year with regular use. Before the next application I will grind off the surface of the shelf with the diamond flat grinder.
Now I am not saying this is any better just different.

I love this--it's the perfect example that there's no *one right* way to do so many things in glass.

David Patchen 12-23-2017 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan (Post 137803)
Well written David. I have put a link to your site in Antiques and Classics on the subject unless you object. If so send Louis the Leg breaker to my winter quarters.

I will print it out if you don't mind, attribution of course.

With the additional eyeballs, I reviewed it and recently edited for greater clarity. If you printed it, get a fresh one...

Pete VanderLaan 12-23-2017 01:04 PM

I don't see any edit in either of the two site sources on craftweb using the link you provided. If someone clicks that link, do they get the edited version?


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