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Shawn Everette 12-05-2019 02:47 PM

uv delamination
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Hey ya'll. So I'm trying to help out my partner on a restoration project at a museum. She's got an assembled cut and polished piece that is starting to get the tell tale delam ferns growing at the seams. There's an odd oil slick look to part of it, which I haven't come across before. We think that it was bonded with a UV, which I know is not our favorite. Anybody have experience on how long to expect complete failure?

Pete VanderLaan 12-05-2019 03:14 PM

Complete failure? It probably won't but it will continue to look worse and worse. The "artifact" or the fern is the result of inadequate exposure to the UV source. The ring may well indicate how flat the two surfaces were at the time of joining them. Newton rings sugggest very close fits.
During the period when I was trying to use UV before abandoning it was that the light source needs to be warmed up. We finallly kept our light under a cardboard box running all day. If you don't warm them up, the filament develops a coating that interfers with the bonding.

I've taken them apart using Methyl Chloride ( Toxic) but it's a lot faster to bite the bullet and saw them, resurfacing everything and this time doing it in Hxtal.

Shawn Everette 12-05-2019 03:44 PM

Any chance you could manage to properly cure what hasn't started to come apart. Given the dogma of museum conservation disassembly probably isn't happening, certainly not with a saw.

Larry Cazes 12-05-2019 05:30 PM


Originally Posted by Shawn Everette (Post 146159)
Anybody have experience on how long to expect complete failure?

Exactly 1 year 3 months and 10 hours. Thats give or take a few seconds of course.

Jordan Kube 12-05-2019 05:59 PM


Originally Posted by Shawn Everette (Post 146161)
Any chance you could manage to properly cure what hasn't started to come apart.

My gut feeling says no but that's the easiest place to start. Won't cost anything. If it doesn't work you're still at present condition.

I know it's not your problem but I would recommend they contact the artist and try to work out a remedy. Museums should have museum quality work, which this piece is not at this point. If the artist isn't interested(I'm assuming they are still around) stick it in a box in back and let it fall apart out of public view.

Scott Dunahee 12-05-2019 09:23 PM

can't you bring it up to temp and burn out the uv glue connections then reassemble after cleaning with hxtal?

Just asking.


David Patchen 12-05-2019 11:23 PM


Originally Posted by Scott Dunahee (Post 146170)
can't you bring it up to temp and burn out the uv glue connections then reassemble after cleaning with hxtal?

This is what the artist should do. If he won't, this is what I would do. I've taken pieces off of bases by bringing them up and down through another annealing cycle. The UV turns dark brown and fails. It isn't easy to get off but a super clean razor blade and some acetone should do the trick. Maybe a cork belt and cerium if it's really stubborn. Then re-assemble with hxtal.

Steven O'Day 12-06-2019 12:23 AM

Buy a new one?

Monte Becker 12-06-2019 06:47 AM

low cost but fail again?

Originally Posted by Steven O'Day (Post 146172)

Shoot - that's a whole lot less expensive then taking it apart and fixing it - and it's 10% off... But, there's no saying it won't fail the same way...

Pete VanderLaan 12-06-2019 07:38 AM

It will completely delaminate in an oven at 300F. You just bonk it apart with a mallet. I takes a fair amount if clean up.

Tom Fuhrman 12-06-2019 08:30 AM

I've seen some very early pieces made in the early 70s that were silicone together and were in some prominent museums that were failing. The question then arises, do they get repaired and put back together with the original materials or are they reassembled using newer adhesives. Museum restorations can be a very sticky wicket. One in particular that I recall was a stacked assemblage of mirrored glass balls.

Shawn Everette 12-06-2019 08:54 AM

So this is the on the money point. I know how to take it apart and reglue it, it's just against nearly all modern conservation protocol to do that. There's a weird dichotomy in their world, one allows full invasive restoration, the other is only preventative maintenance. We're dealing with the latter.

After talking about it they're probably going to just add some hxtal in enough places to keep it together. I believe that this may be one of their "design" pieces, so there is no artist to shove it back on.

Steven's post is by far my favorite.

Pete VanderLaan 12-06-2019 09:30 AM

It will only come apart if you put it up over your bed and try to sleep under it.

Don't get me started on the advantages the world would have if it crashed catastrophically to a hard concrete floor. Crocodile tears would fall.

John Riepma 12-06-2019 09:52 AM

Or the museum could do what Damien Hirst did when the shark "preserved" in formaldehyde that he sold for $11,000,000 starting rotting in the tank of formaldehyde. I had heard that initially when the collector wanted it conserved he convinced them that the deterioration was part of the process. Eventually the shark was replaced with a "new" (albeit still dead) shark.

This has always amazed me, the amounts of money that insecure billionaires will spend to have something no one else can have. I just wish I was good enough to make a story like this up.

Pete VanderLaan 12-06-2019 10:03 AM

I could send you a dead chicken if you like. Cast in resin?

John Riepma 12-06-2019 12:40 PM

I'd prefer an endangered species. More "arty", y'know. Then I'd just have to write some long-winded artist statement and suppress my morals ling enough to put the appropriate number of zeros and commas on the price tag. and probably change my wardrobe to include a beret and ascot and what-all else the successful artists are wearing these days.

Pete VanderLaan 12-06-2019 02:56 PM

Just be careful with your use of the negative space..

Brian Wong Shui 12-07-2019 06:45 AM

Wonder what the conservators would do about this?

Shawn Everette 12-07-2019 09:35 AM

Have a stroke.

Rick Wilton 12-08-2019 05:06 PM

If it'll fit in a microwave that works well for me taking glass awards apart. The glue gets heated by the microwaves 3 minutes is usually enough.

Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig 12-09-2019 07:24 PM

Did you picture google in some way to find it?

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