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Max Epstein 04-07-2020 11:43 AM

Ventilation requirements?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hey all,

I'm pursuing my shipping container pandemic setup till this all blows over.

I found a small 3ft x 3ft hood stainless hood for $100. Are there any inline/reasonably inexpensive fans that can handle my 150,000btu burner?

I don't want to use my 4500cfm upblast if possible.



Max

Max Epstein 04-07-2020 12:07 PM

Found a class 5' x 4' hood as well for $200. That's probably better.

I'm guessing a back side exit will be better than through the roof as well for the fan.

Pete VanderLaan 04-07-2020 01:44 PM

keep your hood tight and figure on three air changes per minute for nice ventilation. One will be hot, two, tolerable. Insulate the hood, you won't regret it.

Max Epstein 04-07-2020 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan (Post 147575)
keep your hood tight and figure on three air changes per minute for nice ventilation. One will be hot, two, tolerable. Insulate the hood, you won't regret it.

I'm using Wet Dog's calculator and don't see values for changes per minute, or air volume for the space. Which I remember doing at one point, hmmmm.....

According to them, with an ambient 100*F (outside in FL), I need 1500cfm.

Sky Campbell 04-07-2020 02:27 PM

Hey Max I donít know how you make your money and maybe thatís not an issue. Some of the nicest shops Iíve seen are from people that come from money or already made their money elsewhere. Iím not trying to judge but it sounds like your kinda in between and not wanting to build it yourself but also not willing to pay to have a hood built.

My advice might not apply for you but I would build the hood from some angle and sheet metal. Easy build compared to everything else in the glass shop.
Iíve used bed rails and roofing tin in the past the yellow hvac board on the inside if you need to insulate it. The beauty of the shipping container is itís all metal weld to it, cut a hole for the fan and sheís done. I happen to have some commercial restaurant fans if your interested. They are the up blast centrifugal exhaust fans you see on the roof or outside wall of a restaurant and do a great job of removing hot exhaust.

Sky Campbell 04-07-2020 02:31 PM

If you talking about the shipping container with the two roll up doors its not going to be about turning over the air it’s going to be about flow and movement to remove heat. You can’t calculate a room that only has three walls. That is a casual observation and my opinion. Always error to side of safety.

Eben Horton 04-07-2020 03:28 PM

I wouldnít ventilate it at all. Iíd put a stack above your furnace flu and a collector avocet your glory hole and go straight up through the ceiling. No fans.
Itís all outside, no?

Max Epstein 04-07-2020 04:29 PM

Yeah, it will be outside. My bench would be outside the shipping container, with the roll up door open ad equipment inside.

It will need to be able to move enough air when I close it up for the night.

Sky -- I have no problem making stuff. I really don't have the money to throw down the drain, and no real source of income until this pandemic passes.... Built my furnace for example. What I do pay for are electricians and gas plumbers 'cuz I don't care to mess with that stuff.

I'm also good at finding stuff for cheap on craigslist and Facebook marketplace, so if I can buy a nice stainless hood for $150 I'm gonna do that instead of building it myself.

So yeah, a bit inbetween. I'll hit you up about the exhaust fans. I have a 4500cfm upblast but I think that's overkill for this application.

Max Epstein 04-07-2020 04:33 PM

I'd love to build myself an actual garage/shop but that's probably $10,000-$20,000 even doing a lot of the work myself. Don't have the funds for that right now. I could, but then no $$$ to reopen and build out a real shop in the future.

Shipping container is $2k plus a door.

It's really gonna suck working outside in this heat but whaddya gonna do.

At this point I've only blown glass 4 times in the last 18 months. I JUST WANT TO BLOW GLASS

Josh Bernbaum 04-07-2020 05:55 PM

It'd be nice to have that small metal hood above your furnace collecting flue gasses, but since the shipping container is only so big (and it's Florida climate), maybe it would suffice to cut a hole in the wall opposite the door-end and mount a 24 or 36" Grainger wall fan in there. That would move a lot of air in a small space. Grainger have techs who can help you size and spec that fan based off of Pete's 2-3 air change/min. Just another thought.

Pete VanderLaan 04-07-2020 06:39 PM

If we're going to die, let's die of the right things. Carbon monoxide or even basic heat should not be in the mix.

Sky Campbell 04-08-2020 12:34 AM

Max if you thinking about working out of the end of a shipping container Iíd give it a little more thought. I do like the picture you posted with two roll up doors but it could be just side walls from the container that lift up to make some additional covered space. To work out of one end of the shipping container would be really uncomfortable. The containers themselves are easy to modify. After you make the first cut weld on your hinges then make the other cuts. Frame it out and Bobís your aunty.

Just a thought maybe itís the beer talking but why donít you just set up under the carport and start blowing glass? The rest will figure itself out through necessity. Thatís the way Iíve always rolled that and the belief that those that say it canít be done should get out of the way of the ones doing it. If your worried about sidewards rain put some tin on a wall. Need a hood some metal 2x4s and a little more tin. Privacy from the neighbor a few panels of privacy fence. Who cares what it looks like itís your place and if not just donít attach anything to the building. Donít make obstacles for yourself overthinking it. If you want to do it nothing happens until you get started. Post some pictures I know Iím not the only one that started out on dirt floors and big dreams. Just charged the furnace after a great night of making fun stuff. I really do love what we do it fills the soul.

Art Freas 04-15-2020 08:49 AM

Also think through emergency exit. Make sure that a malfunction of any sort won't trap you in the container.

Scott Novota 04-15-2020 10:19 AM

Max,

wind tunnel.

small FAns -> you -> gloryhole -> Big(BIG! think all attic fan from a house big) fan right behind glory -> out the back of the container. Pull as much air as you can as fast as you can. Later you can think about boxing the heat and pulling it passively or with elegant planning ventilation but in that set up you need to use brute force.

You have seen my set up. That place is one large wind tunnel. It stays cool. Pete saying air change is key he is right. My air change is easy 5 times a minute when I am open and have it at full tilt boogie.

Max Epstein 04-15-2020 12:42 PM

Sky, you're right, I'm overcomplicating things. I can definitely just start working out there (once I get an outlet for the kiln out there). BUT I want a permanent setup. I don't want to deal with wind, rain, emergency etc and have a hot furnace to deal.

My building department really doesn't like "homemade stuff" like hoods. So if I can find a name brand for cheap it will really save me headaches down the road. Plus, they "know me" know after hassling them about a couple projects and suing them :P

Scott, yeah, I like that idea of exhausting out the side instead of top, but need to figure out how to keep it weather tight. May need an actual fan for that.


-----


Art, yeah I am not going to be working in the container at all. Hinge out some doors on the side, work from out there.

Pete VanderLaan 04-15-2020 01:15 PM

If you don't mechanically exhaust that with a fan, it will be profoundly hot. It can go out the side. Insulate it with HVAC board.
Really really reaally hot.

Pete VanderLaan 04-15-2020 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Freas (Post 147623)
Also think through emergency exit. Make sure that a malfunction of any sort won't trap you in the container.

*****
Tunnels!!

Max Epstein 04-15-2020 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan (Post 147630)
If you don't mechanically exhaust that with a fan, it will be profoundly hot. It can go out the side. Insulate it with HVAC board.
Really really reaally hot.

I was wondering about insulating the container, or if there is spray foam or anything that would help with insulation/ fire barrier rating

Pete VanderLaan 04-15-2020 06:31 PM

Insulate the hood, which will have an exhaust system built into it. Insulating the unit is a complete waste of time and material.

The furnace radiates heat, OK that's what it does. Contain the readiation, exhaust the heat from combustion. That helps a lot since it actually contains the radiant heat to a degree, BUT IT"S RADIATION. IT"S NOT ENTIRELY CONVECTIVE. Understand that. Pull cool air under the hood and your misery will be reduced.

This is fifty years telling you this.

Patrick Casanova 04-16-2020 04:04 PM

Max there has to be a used restaurant equipment salvage yard near you. Check with one of the restaurant owners you may know. They have everything you need. You'll be amazed at what you'll find.

Lawrence Duckworth 04-20-2020 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Epstein (Post 147629)
My building department really doesn't like "homemade stuff" like hoods. So if I can find a name brand for cheap it will really save me headaches down the road. Plus, they "know me" know after hassling them about a couple projects and suing them :P.

.... just follow the rules and youíll be okay... kinda like North Korea


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