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-   -   Price reduction (http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=12532)

Pete VanderLaan 02-06-2020 08:33 AM

Price reduction
 
So, I see where Bomma is lowering it's price per lb . I don't see how that can be profitable.

Rick Wilton 02-06-2020 03:42 PM

in all seriousness, are the ingredients used to make a decent cullet that much more expensive than the basic glass ingredients to make beer mugs? I can go to the dollar store and buy a beer mug that weighs more than a pound and pay $1.50 in Canada. If a finished product can be made in China shipped across the ocean, put on a shelf and sold for $1.50 canadian ($1.10 US) and they make a profit when they sell them one at a time. Is cullet that much more to make when you are buying hundreds or thousands of pounds at a time.

Pete VanderLaan 02-06-2020 04:43 PM

It's more when you're making that many lbs at a time. If you look at a non engineered glass- one color, you have only gobber issues to deal with. Make a clear which has to match existing glasses in both viscosity and expansion and you have a more regulated product.

Cristalica, when I was initially involved in bringing it in was .79 lb and that was subsidized by the govt. Now ship it across the atlantic , add on potential inspection costs which may or may not happen, add on dreyage shipping to the distribution site, then add on the selling costs, subsequent shipping costs and it's on your door step. lucky you. No one makes a dime in that scenario at $1.20 LB. We have more costs yet to add on.

SP batch .81 cents a lb. not bad. 15% volition loss. superior clarity.

Eben Horton 02-06-2020 08:33 PM

I have never melted cullet in my studio. Never will either.

I love the spruce juice.

Ralph Laborde 02-10-2020 10:17 AM

OCR has it for a buck and a quarter....... if you buy three pallets.

Pete VanderLaan 02-10-2020 12:19 PM

I would surmise that the acceptance has been a lot slower than was expected for the Bomma. Given that belief, I imagine the cash flow to be not so hot but the reality is that there's just no money in the stuff at this price. I'm not aware of anyone besides Olympic handling the product so it's not exactly a price war, more an indifference war. I view that as bad and have to wonder what the future is in cullet reliability.
Other choices are Cristalica and Oceanside and Kugler. Not overwhelming.

We'll see.

Justin Zotynia 02-10-2020 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan (Post 146723)
I would surmise that the acceptance has been a lot slower than was expected for the Bomma. Given that belief, I imagine the cash flow to be not so hot but the reality is that there's just no money in the stuff at this price. I'm not aware of anyone besides Olympic handling the product so it's not exactly a price war, more an indifference war. I view that as bad and have to wonder what the future is in cullet reliability.
Other choices are Cristalica and Oceanside and Kugler. Not overwhelming.

We'll see.

I see that spruce pine says they carry Bomma on there website

Pete VanderLaan 02-12-2020 02:43 PM

I've been out and about looking for observations about Bomma and I'm hearing a lot about persisting cording. Are there others having this experience?

Shawn Everette 02-13-2020 09:24 AM

5 months in and no issue.

Pete VanderLaan 02-13-2020 10:22 AM

and you melt at? New crucible? What?

Shawn Everette 02-13-2020 10:36 AM

Melt at 2100*, 1.5 hours between charges, recycle clear from knock off bucket, 10+ year old day tank, dash of magic pixie dust. Not the most ideal conditions, but no issues.

Pringle Teetor 02-14-2020 06:20 PM

Shawn, what size is your pot?

Shawn Everette 02-14-2020 09:42 PM

550 lbs, wet dog.

Pringle Teetor 02-15-2020 08:54 AM

As requested
 
1 Attachment(s)
Pete- here is the clear piece

Pringle Teetor 02-15-2020 05:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Third melt of 100 lbs day 3 after squeeze. still seedy.
Thinking about washing the pot with batch and melting that to see if we have the same problem.

Pete VanderLaan 02-15-2020 05:56 PM

The streaks, where are they coming from? Is that part of the pot washing off into glass? Was the cullet seed free that you melted?

Pete VanderLaan 02-15-2020 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pringle Teetor (Post 146806)
Pete- here is the clear piece

*****
I can see the cords. The glass seems greatly improved as to the seeds.

Pringle Teetor 02-16-2020 10:33 AM

I tried to post a video but couldnít. That pic is a screenshot. I donít know what you mean by streaks. New pot.

Pringle Teetor 02-16-2020 10:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a pic from the previous charge. Charged sunday, this picture taken Tuesday. Not marveled, double dip on 1/2 inch punty. Lots of streaks here.

Weíve ordered an IR thermometer a brand recommended by Greg at Spruce Pine. We will run that test Tuesday. The glass seems to be more bubbly the hotter we charge but always seems to get better over a few days, but the seeds never go away. The next test to try (we really need to get moving since we shut down at the end of June) is to wash the pot with Spruce Pine batch, cook some batch and see if we get clear glass. If we do, yay, we switch. If not, then Iím afraid our problems is bigger than just the glass.

Pringle Teetor 02-16-2020 10:46 AM

Not marvered. I hate auto correct!

Pete VanderLaan 02-16-2020 11:26 AM

well, that saves me a stern ridiculing lecture...
Those streaks appear to be white or at least semi opaque. Are they?

Shawn Everette 02-16-2020 11:44 AM

I think that's the reflection of the overhead florescents. That or the straightest cords I've ever seen.

Pringle, given the size of your pot and that you're on electric, I'd suggest smaller charges and longer duration between. If you're throwing 50lbs in a 200lb electric at 2100* every 1.5 hours that's probably way too fast, even for a stadelman. You don't have the thermal mass ro btu's to recoup what you need.

David Patchen 02-16-2020 11:47 AM

There has been a cording issue over the past couple months and I know that the Bomma folks are working to fix it as I've traded email with them. It's sporadic and not as noticeable for me because I use a lot of color, but people who make clear and thinner work may find it problematic more frequently. When I see any cording at the surface I can carefully hot torch it out, and that's a perfect segue to the other issue:

I've also found that Bomma tends to brown and burn unless your hot torch is leaned out. Even super lean, it can brown a bit. I hope they're responding to this feedback as well. I don't know enough about glass chemistry to have any sense of what's in the recipe that causes this, but I'm sure others on this thread my have some ideas.

I still really love working with this glass and hope they can adjust it to address these issues. It's beautiful glass.

Shawn Everette 02-16-2020 12:09 PM

If you're able to hot torch it, that may be an indication that the batch wasn't significantly melted in the first place. I know that cullet doesn't usually go through a true full melt, so they might be undercutting it a bit much.

On the torch end of things, "For me, this glass has all the characteristics,
that I need for my work; long, torch, friendly, forgiving. Two thumbs up" is supposedly a direct quote from Janecky on their website, curious as to what has changed.

Pringle Teetor 02-16-2020 01:09 PM

Pete, Dana is doing the charging so he would be the one to chime in here. As far as I know, he is putting only enough to cover the bottom of the pot at first, then increasing the amount in the scoop as the pot fills and the surface diameter of the pot increases, but a small amount each time, not 100 pounds. It takes a full day just to charge 100#, as slow as we are going, so I canít imagine we are going too fast. How does Patchen do a 600# charge? A 600 # vs a 200# crucible would be a big difference. Dana was going to weigh it and make sure we had good documentation on everything we are doing. Maybe 16 lbs first scoop? We have no idea about cords cause we canít get past the seeds. The pot is 200# but except for the first melt we are only filling to about 100#. We are just using the glass now to make stuff and keep going for now. I made a clear piece yesterday to check annealing program we set on our other annealer and can post pics on Tuesday. We do mostly transparent veil cane work so seeds are a huge problem.
The lines are clear and not reflections.

The glass in the pot now was charged on Thursday. It was really seedy on Friday so we did a squeeze. No better on Saturday. I canít go back till Tuesday so we shall see then what it looks like. We have punted and scrape the last two pots within a few days so Iíll be interested to see if this one get better over time. Or if our furnace is boiling this stuff. Or the opposite. I guess Iíll have more info on Tuesday. Another day another dollar.

There are so few glass studios around and we all melt different glass. The one in Durham melts kugler, the other one at Cedar Creek Gallery melts SPB and Starworks is almost 2 hours away and they melt SPB, so no local help for us, just Craftweb.


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