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Jesse Bogenrief 02-05-2018 02:02 PM

Diamond wheel refurbish
Does anyone have a good place to get magnetic lap wheels refurbished. 24 inch flat wheel. Thank you

Pete VanderLaan 02-05-2018 03:38 PM

Check with HIS but I'm not aware of anyone doing it. I've always thought of those things as consumables.

Marty Kremer 02-05-2018 04:09 PM

Expensive consumables. HIS recommends taking a carbide stone to the plates when they get worn. It'll prolong the agony for a while.
I've had plates last 10 years (the ones I kept away from the students!).

Pete VanderLaan 02-05-2018 04:23 PM

well, exposing diamonds is one thing, refurbishing is something else. All my laps are really fast at first but, depending on how your diamonds were attached, they have a distinct life span. Comparative observations about when they're shot..

Greg Vriethoff 02-05-2018 04:42 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb, and say nobody does this.

I agree with Pete that these should be viewed as consumables.

Marty is correct about the HIS recommendations.

The issue with the carbide stick is that the process is really meant for diamond tools that are sintered, not electroplated like the discs in question. It's a way to coax a little more life out of one. In my experience it would come back to life for about five minutes, and then go back to cutting poorly again. Bear in mind that most of my experience is in a student setting (see Marty's comments again), or rental shops.

It's really more about how they're used. Who's using it, and what type of work is done.

David Patchen 02-05-2018 05:18 PM

Sounds like your wheel is on its last legs To get a little more life from it I'd first try one of those aluminum oxide dressing sticks to see if removing glazed on glass makes it perform better. If that doesn't work, I'd try running the wheel in the opposite direction. Either of these should give you a few months of marginally better grinding before you fling the thing into the dumpster.

Olympic Color Rods has some really excellent heavy duty diamond wheels. I use a 60 and 240 and they're beasts. They need some wearing in (as do all) but after a few feet of breakin they work great.

Brian Wong Shui 02-05-2018 06:38 PM

I was informed by Bina that Olympic is discontinuing their diamond laps. They have some odd sizes and grits that may be available. I know that there was a 40 grit at the time I called in January.

Pete VanderLaan 02-06-2018 10:50 AM

what also matters here is the kind of glass you are grinding. Different glasses have different hardnesses and some can really clog up a wheel while others really wear it down. The issue of how the wheel is made, resin or sintered really does matter. How much water you flood the wheel with and how much pressure you apply also matter. I sill get my best surfaces from silicon carbide grit but I do use a 60 Grit wheel I got from david to remove a bunch of stock.

My best surfaces alway came from a true newcastle stone but that cliff was played out by 1970. It was a lot like marriage to work with it.

Brian Graham 02-06-2018 08:30 PM

Question on the aluminum oxide dressing stick - will this remove substrate metal as well?

Pete VanderLaan 02-06-2018 08:43 PM

well, when I wanted a wheel dressed, we got serious and used straight Sic grit- 100 mesh/ That took about 30 seconds.Cleaning up was the issue.

Brian Graham 02-06-2018 09:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Pete - do you happen to know what type of stone was used on the old Denver flat lap machines?

Pete VanderLaan 02-07-2018 09:34 AM

I do not. I never used the denver machines. Were they red? Kim Newcomb had some 4 inch thick red ones at Illinois State that were quite nice. I had two big tan Newcastles that were still crated when I got them. I sold that stuff off when I left Santa Fe. John Bingham and I used to go around buying grinding set ups all over the southwest. That's gone.

Steven O'Day 02-07-2018 06:43 PM

Denver started with natural stone, don't know if they were Newcastle, but switched when the natural was hard to get.

Pete VanderLaan 02-07-2018 06:54 PM

Natural of good quality was already gone by 1968. There indeed was stone in the surrounding hills but nothing like that real deal. Denver never bought anything of real quality. Pearls before Swine.

In my opinion of course.

Steven O'Day 02-07-2018 07:04 PM

I recall they had a source for a few old stones, then went to one of the manufacturers and had the large ones made.

Brian Graham 02-07-2018 08:12 PM

I believe it is real stone. A red / tan color. Probably original with the machine. I think my machines are from the early 80's.

Pete VanderLaan 02-08-2018 01:16 PM

The red stone was a very limited item from Salem Distributing. There were not many. Kim Newcomb had a four inch thick 36 inch one I used for a few weeks back in 1974. It was very grabby compared to the true newcastles.

Sky Campbell 02-08-2018 04:03 PM

Denver glass did use new castle stone until it became unavailable. They then asked Norton to supply them with a comparable stone with the same grit. That lasted a while until there supply ran out. At that point the only option was to expensive and the stone wheels were discontinued.

I have one and my curiosity was peaked in this thread so I made the call. Interesting I was told new castle stones changed over the years as the mine became depleted. The deeper they went the more the stone changed. Some of the tells of the age is the color of the stone. All interesting history to me.

Pete VanderLaan 02-08-2018 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by Sky Campbell (Post 138431)
I have one and my curiosity was peaked in this thread so I made the call. Interesting I was told new castle stones changed over the years as the mine became depleted. The deeper they went the more the stone changed. Some of the tells of the age is the color of the stone. All interesting history to me.

******We were made aware of the depletion of the stone by Sam Scholes while he was still about. His family informed me that it was pronounced "SKOLES". There are other items like that. Mullite passed out of formal existence around 1970. Gerstley Borate too went away. All were synthesized, some woefully inadequately. Real Calcium Phosphate from bat shit is a pale replacement for the crap pedaled on us today. Bone ash 21 was remarkable stuff. These days? Just try to find Calcium monophosphate or for that matter mono T-9.

I find that to be really reassuring for some odd reason. It gives the old guys something to talk about. "Ou sont Les Neiges d'antans?.

Kenny Pieper 02-08-2018 04:53 PM

[quote=Pete VanderLaan;138432]****** Bone ash 21 was remarkable stuff. .

So some one told me (I think it was Mark P but don't hold him to it) that the bone ash 21 we use to use came from a mine in Colorado where buffalo use to go to die and over the years it turned to bone ash. Is there any way this could be true?

Pete VanderLaan 02-08-2018 06:10 PM

Mark has some in his basement and I bet you can talk him out of it...

Maybe Mastodons?

Standard Ceramics at the time had the one total truck of it. One Time, never again. As is often the case with glassblowers, when they find a good thing they commit the fatal flaw of telling all their friends. This was true of Keystone Cullet, once a fine product but a year later, not really.

Once that truck full was gone it was gone. Bob Held extolling its virtues at the '68 NCECA conference. From that point on? I think I got a few pounds. The grease came out and stuck to the side of the bag. Best fire opal I've ever made.

Max Epstein 02-09-2018 11:21 AM

Are there any "affordable" setups out there? Under $1000?

I'm paying $50/hr for a cold shop and that ain't gonna fly. Also, don't have $2500 to blow.

Pete VanderLaan 02-09-2018 02:12 PM

Can you weld?

Max Epstein 02-09-2018 02:49 PM

No exactly, but I know a guy. Yes.

Pete VanderLaan 02-09-2018 04:00 PM

Then by all means get a copy of the hot glass information exchange and built the grinder Nick illustrated so well in the book. I mean really illustrated. There will be no doubt in you mind what you need to do. What an incredible draftsman.
You could get a wheel turned at a competent machine shop in the SE. Most good shops have "Drops" from bridge abuttments and you can get a very nice 1.5 inch thick head made. Have them "clear face "it both sides, chamfer the edge and have a 1.29 inch hole bored in the dead center. Building the arbor is the next step. It's a 1.25" shaft with a keyway. number 13 coarse thread on the top 2.5 inches of the shaft going through your wheelhead. Two big thrust bearings, more steel, then 1 -18 inch double sheave Browning pulleys ( accept no substitutes) , buy some grit and step back in time.

I wrote this up extensively a number of years back and believe it's still in the archives. Use a 1.5 HP motor minimum. That machine can be built for about $800 bucks in todays dollars. Buying it would get you a disappointing machine, underpowered and would run well over 3K alone, more likely four.

Jim Clark had a full polishing shop for sale in Boulder Co. He quit glass a long time ago but had a decent set up. For some time, the Rocky Mts was ground zero for polishing tools, mostly through Bingham's pack rat efforts. A lot is still around Santa Fe as well but may be in use.

By 1990, all the old Somer and Maca and Lange machines were gone. So now, you need to weld what we used to pay almost nothing for, although in those days, 50 bucks didn't feel like nothing. Don't skimp on the steel. This stand should weigh two hundred pounds.

Denver Glass machinery was not something we had a high opinion of. Those multi function machines were sort of perpetual cross contamination tools. Our approaches were anal enough that you scrubbed down between stages. I confess I miss my upright felt and cork, sold in Santa Fe. I have no room for it here but it was grand machine.
Those were heady days.

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