CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk

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-   -   cullet shortage (http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=11849)

Shawn Everette 11-03-2019 05:36 PM

If glassblowers can't get there, it's probably a high bar....

Shawn Everette 11-03-2019 05:37 PM

But it certainly helps establish value.

Shawn Everette 11-03-2019 06:03 PM

The question of craft vs art really shouldn't be seen as needing a definitive answer, but as a measurement along a spectrum. The real qualifiers for me are the desired response from an object; weather that be emotional, monetary, technical recognition, wanton superiority, or any number of variables.

Realistically any good art has to be built on good craft, you can't make great art if you can't make great things. If your idea is grandiose, but your execution is half asses, or whole asses as homer would put it, then you've just made a steaming pile of crap. Art I guess, but it needs to be done better. Do you have to make it for it to be phenomenal? Donno, ask Michelangelo.

"Glass artist" is a crutch for recognition in a niche market. A real artist should keep their mind open in terms of materials and technique. Sorry guys, but sometimes blown glass is just not the best option.

On an aside, I'm just back from SOFA, and Habatat had a really kick ass side exhibit of contemporary glass. Good amount of fresh names and work. Overall SOFA was the smallest I've seen, but I'm attributing that to the construction going on at the Pier. Glass was predominant, and was sculpture and casting heavy. Good amount of red dots to somebody's still buying.

Eben Horton 11-03-2019 08:14 PM

If people are paying more than you think your work should be selling for its art.
If you canít sell it for what you want to get for it, itís craft.
I just made that up :)

Shawn Everette 11-04-2019 07:56 AM

I think you mean "If people are paying someone else"

Pete VanderLaan 11-04-2019 08:27 AM

One of the interesting things about galleries is that they don't actually own the work. It's consigned so they have no cash on the table and their real costs are brick and mortar along with salaries ( maybe) and ads.

In the earlier days of all this, most of the artists shown in these galleries were in scholastic retreats and they used school facilities as well as supplies to make work so they to had no money in the product.

When they got together, the opportunity was there to simply create a price out of thin air. Those prices were always noticably higher than the prices for work that independent shops were charging who had real world costs. It certainly was the case that the schools and galleries hated the independent shops and I always thought it was about cash.

I remember when Ferd was complaining about prices being seen at early SOFA's. I think he did not believe the work would sell and that proved wrong. Peiser, interestingly complained about pricing at one GAS conference yet Mark was one of the first to lead the charge in pricing it all way up. That was around 1977. Dale measured himself against everyone based on sales price. Harvey did as well. None of it matched against oil on canvas or sculpture in marble or bronze until Billy Morris pushed those boundaries. But Fritz was right "Money changed Everything."

Shawn Everette 11-04-2019 09:54 AM

Gotta pay somebody for the gift of the gab and that mailing list.

I have a few I did wholesale with, but the majority of my sales were consignment. I was nudged by a gallery at SOFA so we'll see if that turns into anything. It's a mile marker I've been looking to achieve.

I find it kind of funny that people wanted to kind of pigeon hole glass and keep the prices deflated. It can be difficult to find a true value for work, but I think that on the generic retail side if things prices have been stagnant for a while. Especially considering the cullet conundrum.

Pete VanderLaan 11-04-2019 10:16 AM

I don't think you'll ever find a true value for work. Once I sold the spiderman comic for over 50K, I gave up on the notion.
Put your work out at a flea market and see what happens.

Shawn Everette 11-04-2019 12:20 PM

That's fair, but people trying to haggle you over the price of a $15 ornament gets old.

Terry Crider 11-04-2019 02:08 PM

Put 17.50 on it and let them haggle you down to 15.00

Shawn Everette 11-04-2019 02:41 PM

In my spunkier days I'd raise the price if they tried to haggle.

Pete VanderLaan 11-04-2019 04:56 PM

I recall back in 1974 or 75 when I was partnered up with Charlie Miner and we were doing the NM Arts and Crafts fair and I was sitting in the shade and Charlie was in the booth with a couple. Suddenly, Charlie smashed a piece on the ground, rather audible and as I got up, the woman let go of her sweetie's arm and backed away. I simply grabbed the broom and began tiding up the booth while Charlie backed this guy out of the booth and he took off.

Apparently he had "dickered" at a toxic level. I had earlier seen this done in a small show in Santa Fe over fiestas. Done by a Santa Barbara glassworker who was quite good. That must have been in 1972-73. Charlie was a sort of local hero for the remainder of the show.

Larry Cazes 11-04-2019 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Everette (Post 145788)
Gotta pay somebody for the gift of the gab and that mailing list.

I have a few I did wholesale with, but the majority of my sales were consignment. I was nudged by a gallery at SOFA so we'll see if that turns into anything. It's a mile marker I've been looking to achieve.

I find it kind of funny that people wanted to kind of pigeon hole glass and keep the prices deflated. It can be difficult to find a true value for work, but I think that on the generic retail side if things prices have been stagnant for a while. Especially considering the cullet conundrum.

Wholesale arrangements do indeed still exist with certain galleries. I am in 2 right now. The price is slightly lower but I like not having to wait for them to sell before getting paid.

Mark Rosenbaum 11-05-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Cazes (Post 145796)
Wholesale arrangements do indeed still exist with certain galleries. I am in 2 right now. The price is slightly lower but I like not having to wait for them to sell before getting paid.

There are lots of galleries that still buy wholesale, just not in a certain price range ;)
btw, Larry, I love your work!

Lawrence Duckworth 11-08-2019 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum (Post 145804)
There are lots of galleries that still buy wholesale, just not in a certain price range ;)
btw, Larry, I love your work!

Iíve been waiting for the YouTube how-to video. Iíll bet the process Is almost as interesting as the work...3-1/4Ē dia. ...wow! Hot hot 🥵

Larry Cazes 11-09-2019 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum (Post 145804)
There are lots of galleries that still buy wholesale, just not in a certain price range ;)
btw, Larry, I love your work!

Thanks Mark!

Larry Cazes 11-09-2019 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Duckworth (Post 145826)
Iíve been waiting for the YouTube how-to video. Iíll bet the process Is almost as interesting as the work...3-1/4Ē dia. ...wow! Hot hot 🥵

I work alone so its hard to take video. Ive done some GoPro process video but Im not happy with the quality from this silver 4. Its hot. I wear aramid fiber gloves these days to keep my hands cool.


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