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-   -   cullet shortage (http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=11849)

Sky Campbell 03-18-2018 04:22 PM

He might really enjoy Lichtenberg effects on wood with a high frequency welder or using a magnetron from an old microwave. Lots of info on the web. I got lost in it for hours. A little borax and water on the wood wipe until it's just damp and zap instant gratification.

Greg Vriethoff 03-18-2018 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eben Horton (Post 139050)
how about piercing a semi molten 6" sphere with the 30/30 ?? put a pipe hanger outside by your horse trailer and tie a string to the trigger......



what could possibly go wrong?!?!?!

Reminds me of the "bullet in amber" letter from Glassnotes 4.

Eben Horton 03-18-2018 06:55 PM

What was that greg?

Greg Vriethoff 03-18-2018 07:12 PM

It's in the section near the end where Henry reprinted some of his funniest "Ask Dr. Glass" letters. Apparently, someone wrote to Henry asking if it would be feasible to fire a round into a gather of hot glass. They wanted to know if the glass would actually shatter from the impact, or if it would lodge itself in the gob like it was "embedded in amber", or somesuch.

I haven't unpacked my copy since moving my studio, so I don't know exactly what they said, but it went into all manner of pseudo-scientific descriptions of what might happen.

Eben Horton 03-18-2018 07:46 PM

hA! That is exactly what i was getting at.

Mark Rosenbaum 03-18-2018 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff (Post 139054)
It's in the section near the end where Henry reprinted some of his funniest "Ask Dr. Glass" letters. Apparently, someone wrote to Henry asking if it would be feasible to fire a round into a gather of hot glass. They wanted to know if the glass would actually shatter from the impact, or if it would lodge itself in the gob like it was "embedded in amber", or somesuch.

I haven't unpacked my copy since moving my studio, so I don't know exactly what they said, but it went into all manner of pseudo-scientific descriptions of what might happen.

I think that it was done at a certain school in N.O. before I got down here. It depended on the temp and thickness of the glass....

Lawrence Duckworth 03-18-2018 09:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Campbell (Post 139051)
He might really enjoy Lichtenberg effects on wood with a high frequency welder or using a magnetron from an old microwave. Lots of info on the web. I got lost in it for hours. A little borax and water on the wood wipe until it's just damp and zap instant gratification.

I wired a red light into the line to warn myself not to touch anything while its burning..:)

I also did a couple of turkey calls that turned out pretty cool...lots of fun!

Pete VanderLaan 03-19-2018 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Campbell (Post 139051)
He might really enjoy Lichtenberg effects on wood with a high frequency welder or using a magnetron from an old microwave. Lots of info on the web. I got lost in it for hours. A little borax and water on the wood wipe until it's just damp and zap instant gratification.

******
We did that last week. Nice!

Durk Valkema 03-20-2018 03:03 PM

3 years that is very short, recuperated so gas fired I presume.
The borax sure dos not help but what you are seeing is Nephelin formation.
The moment melting temperatures dropped with the low melting batch we saw this phenomena, before only seen in flue area's at the right temperature. We used to race up to 1300+ C charge and melt at 1340 to 1360 C (2380 F charge, melt at 2450-2480F) Now charging 1240 C lingering at 1270 C or 2320 F the calcium in the castibles with the AlumoOxide react with the Alkaline, all of them forming Neph that has a differend expantion so it forms nasty flakes.
They used a very bad castible on that furnace, things are a bit better with the low cement materials but this issue is persistent.
Really 3 years is crazy. We have a client melting 26 metric tonne a year in one single (had a premature one only once) Magma crucible holding 500lbs GLASMA batch, melting 4 times a week. We set the furnace in 2008, you see the Neph formation and we changed the gathering plate 3 years ago, it has another 10 years in it.

Pete VanderLaan 03-20-2018 05:44 PM

we've got a language issue Durk/ We should talk. The general take is that melting boron using refractories in this country for smaller furnaces have issues on units with no flues. Borax has been considered a go to material here since 1980. It has consequences. Americans want glass from toothpaste tubes.

Jordan Kube 03-20-2018 07:58 PM

I don't see a similar thing happening to Wetdog furnaces using the other glasses. It's hard to point to their choice of refractories in this case. That glass was brutal to non contact furnace structures.

Pete VanderLaan 03-21-2018 07:45 AM

Lets clarify a bit here.

Durk is talking about batched glasses in a gas unit I believe. Nephelin is a type of feldspar which has a basic structure of soda/potash/ alumino silicates. Durk implies that it forms but is not introduced into a melt. My interpretation of that is that in the flue, there is a phenomenon of devit flakes occurring when the temps are just right, somewhat on the colder side.

Calcium aluminate is used as the cement in castables which hasten the setting of the castable but reduce it's resistance to attack at the same time.

Jordan, I believe is not talking about gas units at all but is referring to cullet melting. The glass he refers to was the system 96 made by spectrum in conjunction with now departed Uroboros which indeed was a low temperature mel cullet that chowed down ( a technical term) on silicates, aluminates and fireclays in a variety of furnaces but was really worst in electric units with no flues. The liner photo he shows is I believe, a wet dog cast portion that dissolved using the system 96. Jordan appears to say he is not seeing the same kind of dissolution with the Cristalica but needs more time to watch it.

Both of these glasses currently are under scrutiny because of their Boron content. Boron with barium around 3% would in my mind add to the issue. I am getting feedback from some kiln makers that the Cristalica is having detrimental effects on their products in a short time. That is using alumina crucibles from either High Temp or Engineered Ceramics. The crucibles do not appear to be affected and I would have expected that they would be.
It seems to me that the jury remains out on the affect the German cullet will have on the American furnaces. Simply put, European furnaces in general use higher quality refractories.
The GLASMA claims Durk makes in the Gas units is not something I can really compare anything to. First, I don't know what GLASMA Batch it is and secondly, it certainly sounds like a very different furnace structure as well as being gas fired, not electric. It remains to be seen whether Cristalica gets the boron out of the goop. I certainly advocated for that when Tom Littleton and I first brought the stuff into the country two years back but as I have noted, they declined changing anything. I am no longer affiliated with that arrangement in any way. I do sell pots.

I hope that sums up what I can see would be fairly confusing. Is that the case, and am I accurate?

Jordan Kube 03-21-2018 03:12 PM

My pictures are above glass line pictures. I didn't necessarily see it eat into the AZS refractories. The tank itself holds up reasonably well. Wet dog makes awesome furnaces.

Pete VanderLaan 03-21-2018 03:31 PM

Thank you for the clarification. Nasty Stuff. I agree Eddie makes nice tooling. Pricey.

I modified my prior post to support the clarification.

Pete VanderLaan 03-25-2019 10:20 AM

So, apparently the Charlie Parriot cullet is going to be in Seattle next week with a potential price of $1.60. per lb. That would be at Olympic. Further, the same source suggests that Seattle does not like the Kugler clear at all.

Cristalica is getting better about delivering but it has been pointed out that the quality has changed.

I have to wonder how much cullet the Parriot connection will be capable of producing. I don't think it will be enough if it is well received. So, then, will supply and demand determine price?

Mitcheal Veenstra 03-25-2019 01:34 PM

Thanks for the update Pete. What is the Seattle crowd saying about k-cullet? I've not heard anything yet down in Texas.

Pete VanderLaan 03-25-2019 04:56 PM

If you mean Kugler cullet, Mikey no likes it. The only stuff I've seen on that was the bar sizes being large and subsequently blowing up in the pot which one supplier described to me as " A non starter".

Mark Rosenbaum 03-28-2019 04:30 PM

Can we list here what cullets are available or soon to be???

Cristalica... available from Olympic and Spruce Pine
Charlie Parriot's.... is this the same as "K" cullet? (Kugler?)
Oceanside (Spectrum 2.0 formula) .... they are introducing it at G.A.S.
Are there any other players available (or soon to be) in the states? Thanks

Pete VanderLaan 03-28-2019 07:02 PM

I would candidly stay on the sidelines with Ocenside for a year. Cristallica is pretty much what Jordan described- more supply less quality. Parrot will I think deliver a good product but will have trouble with massive demand. Kugler, as I understand it is being panned in Seattle for a variety of reasons.

It's far from over.

Interestingly, I sent Croucher an observation yesterday about SP87. A few months ago, in another thread an assertion was made, and supported by the Frank Wooley analysis of SP87 as to the Lithium Content. The assertion was at .5 percent.

I recalled that differently but looking back, Frank was correct, until he was not. I have two printouts from SP regarding the formula. John has them as well and they're both really old. One shows lithium content at 1.0 percent, and the other at .5 percent as a big difference. Frank is tagged to the latter which I imagine is the correct place today. My original which came from Tom decades ago is on a printed cardstock, slightly tan with rather different numbers for various ingredients. Interesting that I never noticed that before.

Mitcheal Veenstra 03-29-2019 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum (Post 143331)
Can we list here what cullets are available or soon to be???

Cristalica... available from Olympic and Spruce Pine
Charlie Parriot's.... is this the same as "K" cullet? (Kugler?)
Oceanside (Spectrum 2.0 formula) .... they are introducing it at G.A.S.
Are there any other players available (or soon to be) in the states? Thanks


Oceanside is NOT Spectrum 2.0 formula. It's system 96 compatible and looks exactly like clear plate that's come off the line and been broken up. They said they are making it 'special' for the cullet market. But it's not the new 2.0 formula and it is compatible with their system 96 line. Which makes it incompatible with spruce pine, or Crystallica... I don't know where K cullet(kuglar) falls into things on expansion, but the spec sheet looks good to not eat my furnace. But after looking at k-cullet at GAS this weekend we can't run it. it's too massive. It'll break things in our furnace when it pops(which it will unless we preheat it and then why is that convenient?). It looks like extruded clear bar in big chunks. Pretty glass, but scary looking to toss into the pot.

Charlie Parriot's cullet is NOT the k-cullet from Kuglar. It's a completely different beast from a yet another manufacturer and will be coming as small 'patties' in the bags if the samples at GAS are any true indication. I don't even have a spec sheet on it yet so I can't say what's in it. Olympic says it's not going to eat our furnaces like Cristallica. Who knows until I see a spec sheet. Oympic swears that Charlie will be able to meet the demand. We'll see.

That's what I've seen so far at GAS this year looking at the cullets.

Pete VanderLaan 03-29-2019 07:53 PM

I recall demand as 11 tons a week. that may be low.
And no I don't think Parriot's stuff is the Kugler. Nor Do I think meeting demand is any easy trick at all. As Cristalica found up, increasing the furnace output has results one may not like. That will be the measuring stick in the next year.

Dan Fenton: "Glass remembers everything you ever do to it."
Bingo. RIP Dan.

Greg Vriethoff 04-01-2019 11:33 PM

Unhappy Campers Already
 
2 Attachment(s)
Just ran across this on social media (Glassies). Guess one of the "beta testers" is having issues.
Attachment 5667
Attachment 5668

Shawn Everette 04-02-2019 08:45 AM

So avoid like the plague. Got it!

Pete VanderLaan 04-02-2019 09:38 AM

There are factors to consider. First, It's a dragon 60lb unit and it has no flue. I'm not sure why that was the considered design but it could account for crud backing up in the chamber.
Now that being said, it's ostensibly a cullet, not a batch and it's hard to conceive of a cullet giving up that much junk. I think it possible that if is as dusty as it appears to be, that the dust could be contributing to the issue. I'd like to know what the appearance around the door of the furnace is. Does it have that tell tale yellow stain at the one o'clock position?

Shawn Everette 04-22-2019 01:29 PM

If anybody's looking to buy I just saw supersacks listed on D&L, $1.27 and drop ship. Last I czeched olympic didn't have it on their docket yet.


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