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Old 06-01-2017, 12:43 AM
Dennis Hetland Dennis Hetland is offline
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A Glass Worker's Dream

I think cullet is awesome. We can always use more cullet

https://www.gofundme.com/rbg-a-glass-workers-dream
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:49 AM
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I think that to be remarkably under capitalized. 4,000 lbs of cullet would not scratch the surface of demand if it was source as implied. I did not think that Spectrum was ceasing operations but was selling the sheet glass portion to Oceanside. That being said, I would be surprised if in their new location in Eastern Washington that the company did not experience significant issues.

Building a decent sized furnace that did continuous melt and processed nuggets will probably run over 400K alone. This proposal anticipates spending $30K on the furnace. It's amazingly expensive to do.

I should be clear that I'm not affiliated with any cullet manufacturing or sales in any way. Mark Peiser and I are working on the production of a non toxic enamel white as well as a duro version of the same. That's going very well but is really small scale.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:14 AM
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When I worked for Uroboros a 1,500lb day tank ran in the neighborhood of 40K. On a good day a full tank could net you around 1,300lbs of clean cullet.

I can't see this as a sustainable business model.
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:11 PM
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well, I have a problem with the basic supposition: Is Spectrum ceasing production of system96 or 2.0 or whatever. I've not seen that.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:07 PM
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No, everything that I have heard is that the nuggets will still be produced in the USA and the flat glass will go to Mexico. This proposal is crazy....
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:10 PM
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As Pete, and Mark pointed out, Spectrum has not made any official statement in regards to shutting-down nugget production. The new website still sets production in Woodinville thru summer 2017. Then moving to Eastern Washington.

This person states they started working for Spectrum in 2015. Still an employee? If so, is this an inside job?

I want answers.
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:34 PM
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The Spectrum System 96 new formula is produced in eastern Washington at the new plant. I am using that now.
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:41 PM
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By the way, I really like the new 96. Good balance for both production and on off stuff. I find it easier to work with and work longer. Only odd parts are that it works a bit thicker and doesn't like to come off pipes as easily.
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:03 PM
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So Croucher just wrote me about the glass wetdream. It's interesting how the text in the fund me is similar to the basic language in the Gaffer Website. Very similar...
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Freas View Post
The Spectrum System 96 new formula is produced in eastern Washington at the new plant. I am using that now.
***********
I am not under the impression the new plant is more than a plan. Do you factually know different?
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:01 PM
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I'm starting to wonder if this isn't another scam like the pipemaker bro from a few years ago with the supposedly injured dog.
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:30 PM
Dennis Hetland Dennis Hetland is offline
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Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff View Post
I'm starting to wonder if this isn't another scam like the pipemaker bro from a few years ago with the supposedly injured dog.
Your post seems negative and vicious. To give someone a brutally honest critique is constructive. To say things like this is not.
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:54 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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My first impression is to compare this proposal to melt 2 tons a day much like a home brewer plans to start his own nano brewery. He starts small and keeps his overhead low and starts making beer. He begins to have a following and repeat customers and then he increases his production capabilities to keep up with demand.

Do I think it is a scam? No way.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Hetland View Post
Your post seems negative and vicious. To give someone a brutally honest critique is constructive. To say things like this is not.
You're right, it is negative. Probably not helpful to take that tone. However, wondering out loud is not the same thing as outright accusing someone.

I encourage competition. Too much production is owned by too few as it is. The problem I'm having is that this person seems to think that Spectrum nuggets are not going to be available anymore (a claim made by a self-proclaimed employee of the same company). This is not true, so where's the demand going to be? The whole thing sounds strange to me on the surface.

If anyone involved in this endeavor is offended by what I have insinuated here, or elsewhere, I will publicly apologize.
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:48 AM
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I'm puzzled. Spectrum 2.0 premium is generally great stuff. Pete's cullet also gets great reviews. Both are great working, fit most color, make beautiful glass, are readily available and aren't obscenely priced.

So I don't see a need in the market for another cullet. Am I missing something?
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Hetland View Post
Your post seems negative and vicious. To give someone a brutally honest critique is constructive. To say things like this is not.
********
You might try reading the prospectus Dennis and then go to the Gaffer website and reading it. Then think about lifting information whole or in part right down to 4% barium which interestingly none of these glasses that are american made contain. The go fund me implies that Spectrum will no longer make nuggets. I think that is not true and is deceptive.

My big concern is for the dog. Was there a dog injured in the hijacking of the website?
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Patchen View Post
I'm puzzled. Spectrum 2.0 premium is generally great stuff. Pete's cullet also gets great reviews. Both are great working, fit most color, make beautiful glass, are readily available and aren't obscenely priced.

So I don't see a need in the market for another cullet. Am I missing something?
*******
It's not my cullet. Spruce Pine is marketing the Cristalica. I occasionally make color and indeed have written a truly great formula for clear but it is not being produced commercially. Beyond that , I agree.
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Old 06-03-2017, 09:24 PM
Dennis Hetland Dennis Hetland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Patchen View Post
I'm puzzled. Spectrum 2.0 premium is generally great stuff. Pete's cullet also gets great reviews. Both are great working, fit most color, make beautiful glass, are readily available and aren't obscenely priced.

So I don't see a need in the market for another cullet. Am I missing something?
Cullet is that cheap now? So, are you saying that cullet is so reasonably priced and so plentiful that there is no need to buy batch?
That sounds like it's really in every studio owner's best interest to melt cullet rather than batch.
More people making cullet would drive the price of cullet down which would lower operating costs for every studio owner smart enough to run cullet.
That sounds like a good thing.
I'm sure it would be better for the environment too.
You're right David. We should all melt cullet. Thanks
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:20 AM
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I think everyone melting cullet will make Spectrum really wealthy. Economy of scale does work well here- to increase profit but those prices aren't coming down.
I guess they're all over $1.10 at this point. My formula, which really is better than any of them yet is not commercially produced costs .30lb to make in shop. If I jobbed that out as I did recently, it was .65lb. It has about an 8% volition loss. It polishes better, it has higher gloss, it doesn't devitrify in casting,fines out better and faster, blah blah blah. It also takes color really well.

Sometimes if you haven't seen Damascus, it's hard to know how beautiful it is.
But, if anyone sounds hostile, I think it's Dennis. Got a dog in this fight by any chance? It inevitably gets my attention when someone starts their project by supplying disinformation about the competition and this website does that near as I can see. Not a warm fuzzy kind of competition.
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:45 AM
Dennis Hetland Dennis Hetland is offline
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Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
I think everyone melting cullet will make Spectrum really wealthy. Economy of scale does work well here- to increase profit but those prices aren't coming down.
I guess they're all over $1.10 at this point. My formula, which really is better than any of them yet is not commercially produced costs .30lb to make in shop. If I jobbed that out as I did recently, it was .65lb. It has about an 8% volition loss. It polishes better, it has higher gloss, it doesn't devitrify in casting,fines out better and faster, blah blah blah. It also takes color really well.

Sometimes if you haven't seen Damascus, it's hard to know how beautiful it is.
But, if anyone sounds hostile, I think it's Dennis. Got a dog in this fight by any chance? It inevitably gets my attention when someone starts their project by supplying disinformation about the competition and this website does that near as I can see. Not a warm fuzzy kind of competition.
Are you going to beat me up for introducing you to the next Lani McGregor?
I don't know this girl. I just saw her post on Facebook and thought I'd share it. Since posting this I have exchanged one message with her. She says she designs furnaces. I'm impressed. I want to see her succeed.
I find the fact that her project bothers people very entertaining.
You are totally making things up. She has not said anything deceptive. I don't see anything lifted from Gaffer's website.
This is the only thing she says about Spectrum being sold.
Spectrum has sold to Oceanside glass and there is an urgent and immediate need for cullet on the west coast. I hope to fill this void.

There is nothing wrong or deceptive about what she said. She's putting together a GoFund Me campaign. She has to say something.
$1.10 a lb is too much! We really do need more cullet manufacturers. Think about from a studio owner's perspective. We're going to save so much money by melting cullet as long as it's affordable.
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Old 06-04-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Hetland View Post
Are you going to beat me up for introducing you to the next Lani McGregor? We're going to save so much money by melting cullet as long as it's affordable.
*********
I'll pass on the Lani McGregor. I'd go with Sam. I do think the go fund me is deceptive in that it implies that the sale of Spectrum will mean they won't make nuggets anymore. It's well known that they plan to continue. So I think that's deception. Cristalica is also available from Spruce Pine.

John Croucher is the one who notified me about the information that is now common to the go fund me and the gaffer website. Just read them both. John has his batch produced by both Philipps and Spruce Pine. I believe that's well known too.

If my batch costs me .30 lb, I certainly don't have the buying power of either Spectrum or Cristalica and both cost well over a buck ten a pound. Material costs haven't really gone up much in the last year except for Lithium and it did not go up nearly as much as was expected. Silica could perhaps become a strange issue.

In actuality, making a good glass is difficult. Knowing the chemistry actually takes a lot of time and tons of trials. The basics being done, it has to be melted and tested over a bit of time. Right now, Mark is on melt 53 of the enamel white.

From what I know about doing this it will be a niche market in a niche market. Making glass is one thing, making clean clear nuggets( Trademark by the way) is much harder as Spectrum and Spruce pine have amply demonstrated in the various disasters they have put forth in the cullet field.

I don't expect to see the price of cullet ever falling. The definition of cullet used to be waste glass falling at the benches of glass shops, or work broken in process. It used to run about .02 lb. Today? It's boutique cullet made just for you at a delicious profit.

Good to know you aren't vested financially. I simply thought David's question was a reasonable one and didn't deserve the sarcasm it received. I didn't find Greg's to be out of line either.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:14 PM
Dennis Hetland Dennis Hetland is offline
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No disrespect was intended in regards to David's statement.
I don't see any language that looks lifted from gaffer. Her reference is pretty vague. I don't see how it damages Spectrum. It seems like a non issue to me. Maybe she should edit it. I don't know. It's not my project. I don't think it's an attempt to deceive anyone.
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:21 PM
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So somehow you think saying that Spectrum has sold its business and a big cullet shortage is coming isn't deceptive? Really? You are being asked to invest here. How can melting batch in one place and selling it in another as cullet be more than a zero sum gain?

Normally I would not have gone out and found this but it got placed here. You can certainly delete the entire thread if you want, you started it. I do go after stuff I think is shaky. I did it with the guy making a revolutionary wire melter and have no apologies. People shouldn't promise stuff that can't be delivered and it's even worse when they want your money to do it.
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:43 AM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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What's interesting to me is that when comparing using any of these boutique cullets versus using commercially available batch in our small studio furnaces, I never seem to hear a mention of carbon footprint. I use SP's batch in my clear furnace, and I think my footprint would consider both the fuel I use to do my melts to turn these raw ingredients into glass and also the fuel used for shipping it up to me from North Carolina to Vermont. But with these boutique cullets, which are not just scraps from old factories like in the old days but melted and cooled so that they can be melted again in our small furnaces, there is one more step of fuel usage for doing so. I understand that one of the draws for cullet is that you can get away with lower melt temps, and sometimes not raising your set point at all from working temp, but anything that cools off your furnace will result in some increase in your controller's % output for that set point to be maintained and that should be part of the equation I think. I know it can be easy to rationalize our fuel usage and carbon output when comparing with so many other bigger carbon producers, but I still think it should be part of the conversation, especially these days. I think boutique cullet should be more expensive because of this reason, especially if it's being shipped from overseas. I'm curious to hear other thoughts on this too please.
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Old 06-05-2017, 10:52 AM
Kenny Pieper Kenny Pieper is offline
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What's interesting to me is that when comparing using any of these boutique cullets versus using commercially available batch in our small studio furnaces, I never seem to hear a mention of carbon footprint. I use SP's batch in my clear furnace, and I think my footprint would consider both the fuel I use to do my melts to turn these raw ingredients into glass and also the fuel used for shipping it up to me from North Carolina to Vermont. But with these boutique cullets, which are not just scraps from old factories like in the old days but melted and cooled so that they can be melted again in our small furnaces, there is one more step of fuel usage for doing so. I understand that one of the draws for cullet is that you can get away with lower melt temps, and sometimes not raising your set point at all from working temp, but anything that cools off your furnace will result in some increase in your controller's % output for that set point to be maintained and that should be part of the equation I think. I know it can be easy to rationalize our fuel usage and carbon output when comparing with so many other bigger carbon producers, but I still think it should be part of the conversation, especially these days. I think boutique cullet should be more expensive because of this reason, especially if it's being shipped from overseas. I'm curious to hear other thoughts on this too please.
Well one thing to consider is that it is much more efficient to melt glass in a large furnace. Josh I know you are close with Charley Correll. Years ago he looked into this and ran some sort of numbers that came out indicating that there was less of a carbon foot print to make cullet and then remelt in a small furnace compared to melting the same amount of batch in a bunch of small furnaces.
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