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Old 07-08-2017, 02:15 AM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is offline
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Flow meter?

I'd like to do some figures on gas consumption, but the only measurable thing I have to go on is our weekly gas tank fill which feeds 6 separate appliances.
Is there such thing as an analogue or digital flow meter I could put in line with a furnace or gloryhole. We are using lpg.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:04 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I used flow meters from Dwyer back when I wa making color rods. They were only approved for air but they worked beautifully and were about $75 bucks as I recall. It was a graduated cylinder with a ball in it that rose as gas pushed through the unit. It could really be dialed in. It would not give a readout ot totals but you could clearly see what an appliance was consuming.
Dwyer also makes manometers do you can measure forced air flow as well.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:11 AM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is offline
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Interesting, thanks Pete. Did they measure liters/minute or some unit of pressure?
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:51 AM
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They had models that did cubic inches, cubic feet I'm not sure if it had ones in centimeters etc. Really nice tool. Bolt on to the frame for the furnace or to the hood. It takes a standard flex gas line hookup for both input and output. Really fine control. I could reflect the furnace moving perhaps only three to five degrees with a fine adjustment. I still have them but don't have a current use for them now. I hoard everything. If you were really anal retentive, you could probably hook it up to a digital recorder.
It was primarily being used to duplicate conditions in the furnace for shaky color work where repetition was critical. Times change. For the last year I've done all of that just eyeballing it. That's not a good idea. The air flow Manometer was remarkably simple and easy as well. We had a flue gas analyzer at the time from N. American Rockwell.

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Old 07-08-2017, 12:37 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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Find a natural gas meter and plum it into the gas line of the furnace you want to monitor. Simple!!
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Old 07-08-2017, 01:10 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I suspect my approach is simpler and will really let you fine tune the furnace unless all you care about is raw volume used. You might remember the flow meters on the furnaces in Santa Fe in the first color class Eben.
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:24 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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I do remember those gauges. But do they tell you how much you are using in a way to quantify it into knowing how many gallons or liters per hour of propane you are using?
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Old 07-08-2017, 06:49 PM
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I imagine you could if you kept the orifices constant. I'm not at all sure that was Peter's point. I was under the impression he wanted to compare tools and could not isolate any individual tool. This would. If you want it down to cash per cu ft efficiency. I would imagine that is achievable.

What I wanted was control to where it made what I wanted made. That has always been my point. "can you reproduce results?" Cost gets to be of interest but not in a critical sense compared to getting results. You can or you can't.
Melting cullet is not exactly rocket science unless you aren't getting what you want. If you want Chalcedonia or a ruby red, this approach would get your attention.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:59 AM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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I've used these at individual appliances. They're cheap enough but shipping to Tasmania might get you. See if you can find something down south.

http://www.ekmmetering.com/3-4-pulse...7FsaApQt8P8HAQ

They have some other cool products. That gas meter will send signals to a smart meter that can also monitor electrical usage on other single pieces of equipment.

http://www.ekmmetering.com/ekm-omnim...ric-meter.html
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:52 PM
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It strikes me that if you were patient enough, all these tools could be linked to software which really should tell you your costs per hour.

I never went far enough at Dwyer to actually ask "Can this flow meter be tied to a number of therms per hour, or cubic feet if you need it that way."
We're just not asking quite the right questions.
I can imagine a program which would convert for you the cost per hour in your local currency as to what your machine costs to run. It's just a number crunch.

Now keep in mind the history behind all of this: Initially in the school programs, the gas bill was never broken down by department. It was just a big monthly bill and the hot shops quietly held their breath every year. Finally, someone broke through and found out how appallingly high the hot shop costs actually were and schools really did start to shut programs down. This goes back to about 1980. It just got worse. The the insurance actuarialists got in the show and the lawyers all agree that this was risky stuff indeed. Not only was it expensive but it wasn't UL Listed and there was no one to sue if things went bad. Somehow, that created the "Shop Tech" And the "Equipment Suppliers " to this day as a totally unqualified souls that turns the knobs and dials. The shop Tech went to "The school of Hard Knocks" which has an accreditation program as a survival school. These guys took classes in "Thinking on your feet" and "Cleanup 101." That's what happens during a disaster.

It's really the same place that the Degrees in "International Studies" in the Poly Sci degrees come from come from.

I may sound cynical but I'm really not. It's all just too true.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:54 PM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is offline
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Many thanks for your input. Much appreciated.
Those EKM meters look just the thing but are only rated to 50kpa - so will need to upsize.
I've found something comparable here in Australia. The supplier asked how much fuel the appliance used, I told him that's what I wanted to measure, he said he would need to know to get the right size meter. It's chicken and egg stuff really, I don't think he saw the humour.
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:50 AM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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Give us some specs on the equipment, you can usually ballpark that stuff to get you started. Compare similar pieces on the Wetdog site for instance. They won't be too far off if the stuff is the same size.
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Old 07-13-2017, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Bowles View Post
Many thanks for your input. Much appreciated.
Those EKM meters look just the thing but are only rated to 50kpa - so will need to upsize.
I've found something comparable here in Australia. The supplier asked how much fuel the appliance used, I told him that's what I wanted to measure, he said he would need to know to get the right size meter. It's chicken and egg stuff really, I don't think he saw the humour.
The burner manufacture should have the specs for maximum consumption. From there you should be able to size the meter you need.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:58 PM
Hugh Jenkins Hugh Jenkins is offline
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Peter, if you have an orifice size and pressure, even just within standard gauge accuracy, you can get a reasonable estimate. I think I left James with a chart for that, but if not I can do the calc or send a copy. There are assumptions of gas density that make the calculation rough unless you can get that from your supplier.
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