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  #1  
Old 12-09-2018, 06:22 PM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is offline
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Hand torch at the bench

I'm looking at options for a new torch at the bench, I'm currently using a premix nozzle which has serious limitations.

Possible options so far..

A National 3A with HTC tips (still premix, but seem to be a go to for many folk, and I've got the torch already, would just need the tips)

A National Surface Mix torch with SM nozzles

A Nortel Multimix Handtorch (relatively inexpensive )

Or one of the 2 stage torches recently released by GTT - maybe the Sidewinder or Phantom? Very spendy, very nice looking torch.

I'm looking for something to spot heat pretty thick masses of glass in a focused way, so plenty of umpff required, but with good flame chemistry to keep everything nice and clean.

Wondering who's using what and what people might recommend.

Thanks all
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2018, 06:36 PM
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Sky Campbell Sky Campbell is offline
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I would recommend one you didn't mention and that is the nortel red max hand torch. I have used all the above and for the money that would be my recommendation.

That said it would be over kill for punties but as far as nice heating characteristics that won't break the bank it's a winner.

Second recommendation would be a good gas saver mounted on a stand that you can move where needed.

I commonly use the multi mix burners in a cross fire. For that application they are great individually they aren't as focused or as hot as the red max IMO.
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Old 12-10-2018, 02:34 AM
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David Patchen David Patchen is offline
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I have the Nortel Multimix and the Red Max in hand torch configuration (long handle). I've found both of them to be really flexible, adjustable and effective. The only real difference is the width of the flame. The multimix can be dialed down for punties but can also dialed up for heating larger surfaces. The Red Max is a beast--it's probably twice the flame diameter than my multimix. I use it to reheat thick clear glass bottoms so I can quickly get a bottom formed. I can still use it to flame polish a punty on a cane cup when I don't have my multimix set up but it's super overkill for punties.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:20 PM
Charles Friedman Charles Friedman is offline
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hand torches

Peter The National 7S with the option of 4 different tip sizes, is a very useful took and the most bang for the buck. The burner tips can be dialed into a point or bigger a bit fluffier. Also, they can be changed on the fly, no tool needed. Depending on how large the piece is, the Multi mix is huge, the Jr. would be my next choice.
Trying not to be a commercial here, but, I would use one of my Deadman Switches for better control and better gas savings.

www.charleysdeadmanswitch.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3qih6PKIfE


I have a fire test comparison video, but it will not load here for some reason.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg xlarge torches.jpg (41.6 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg Deadman-Switch-Photo-Ad-4-2015.jpg (47.3 KB, 26 views)
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:22 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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You would not be sorry if you got the Nortel multimix. Really versatile torch. The GTT's are hands down the best torches out there, unfortunately they are not as durable as Nortel's offerings. Torches get dropped and banged around, etc, in the hot shop. But, you can go from needle flame to full blast lightsaber in one torch. The Phantom will outperform a Redmax even though the Phantom is a smaller torch. It all depends on what you plan to do with it.
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:51 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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I use a 7s. It weighs twice as much as a Nortel ranger but is more versatile.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:29 AM
Charles Friedman Charles Friedman is offline
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burner tips

Here are some burner tips for comparison.
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File Type: jpg Burner tips compareison.jpg (36.7 KB, 33 views)
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:39 PM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is offline
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Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated.

I think I'm going to go with the 7s which offers me the versatility of interchangeable tips. And use it alongside a GTT cricket that I've already got for smaller work.

I love the 2 stage operation of the new GTT torches but its too big a chunk of money - probably more than my car is worth, so I'm going to be a little dollar wise this time around.

I've just found a supplier for propane and oxygen quick connects, so I'm going to build those into the trolley for future options.

Charles, I came across your deadman handles when I was doing my initial searching, they look like a very elegant solution. I had already ordered a few gas economisers so I'm covered for now. But it did get me thinking about how much gas and oxygen gets lost in the hose. There would be some interesting calculations around this - you've probably already done them.

Thanks again everyone :-)
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:31 PM
Charles Friedman Charles Friedman is offline
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Ditch the pilot light and go to a on-demand system and save even more.
As far as savings with the Deadman Switch goes.....The longer the hose, the bigger the savings. Any where in the shop.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2018, 05:47 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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oxygen is the silent killer.
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  #11  
Old 12-14-2018, 02:37 PM
Jeff Thompson Jeff Thompson is offline
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I have been using a gtt lynx handtorch since 2004 and its been awesome but on the small size. A few years ago I converted a nortel mid range into a handtorch ala pilchuck style and that has been amazing. About a month ago I fired up a gtt cheetah handtorch and I'm finding that to be really super!

here's the mid-range in action:https://www.instagram.com/p/BhlOxu4Avkd/

mid range conversion: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTkdUTZFr3L/

the lynx is great for small spots: https://www.instagram.com/p/BhasuscAUwr/
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:19 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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I do NOT buy cheap tools. GTT triple mixes are the finest hand torches made and eventually after you have had enough of the cheaper brands you will realize just how much easier great torches make your work. GTTs hold almost 100% of their resell value as well and that alone is worth the price of admission. My 2 cents!
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Old 12-24-2018, 12:03 PM
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[quote=Larry Cazes;142345]I do NOT buy cheap tools. GTT triple mixes are the finest hand torches made and eventually after you have had enough of the cheaper brands you will realize just how much easier great torches make your work. GTTs hold almost 100% of their resell value as well and that alone is worth the price of admission. My 2 cents![/QUOTE

None of the torches mentioned are cheap tools. You donít need a Lamborghini to go grocery shopping a Toyota will do the same for a lot less money. I fail to see how a gtt handtorch is the better tool for the application. I own all the above and gave my recommendation based on practical experience. Are you saying your using a gtt hand torch to heat large masses of glass off hand? What burner are you using?
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Old 12-24-2018, 12:58 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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[quote=Sky Campbell;142346]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cazes View Post
I do NOT buy cheap tools. GTT triple mixes are the finest hand torches made and eventually after you have had enough of the cheaper brands you will realize just how much easier great torches make your work. GTTs hold almost 100% of their resell value as well and that alone is worth the price of admission. My 2 cents![/QUOTE

None of the torches mentioned are cheap tools. You don’t need a Lamborghini to go grocery shopping a Toyota will do the same for a lot less money. I fail to see how a gtt handtorch is the better tool for the application. I own all the above and gave my recommendation based on practical experience. Are you saying your using a gtt hand torch to heat large masses of glass off hand? What burner are you using?
Yes. I have both bench and handheld versions of the lynx and mirage and have been working with them for 8 years. I also own an HA 40mm and 60mm. The GTTs are what I always find myself returning to. They are not the burner of choice of the vast majority of torch workers for no reason. Build quality, efficiency, and versatility are second to none. This is my opinion and its based on experience with just about everything out there for many years. You get just what you pay for.

Last edited by Larry Cazes; 12-24-2018 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 12-24-2018, 01:44 PM
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[quote=Larry Cazes;142347]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Campbell View Post

Yes. I have both bench and handheld versions of the lynx and mirage and have been working with them for 8 years. I also own an HA 40mm and 60mm. The GTTs are what I always find myself returning to. They are not the burner of choice of the vast majority of torch workers for no reason. Build quality, efficiency, and versatility are second to none. This is my opinion and its based on experience with just about everything out there for many years. You get just what you pay for.
i think your wrong but I come from a different background so maybe it's perspective. In the world of scientific glass which is the origins of all of these bench burners gtt has still not taken over the marketplace. Not because they aren't a superior torch but more so because you can easily do the job with less. I understand many people believe a better tool will make them a better glass blower I just don't subscribe to that idea.

I'm curious if you have tried a AGF fire with hydrogen for off hand work? I ask because for a long time I have suspected a set up like that could deliver the most heat without effecting color or phase separation.

http://www.agfburner.com/products/qu...urfacemix.html
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Old 12-24-2018, 05:18 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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I agree that the GTT are superior torches for lampworking and while they are still excellent at the bench, a Nortel midrange will do just about anything you need for softglass. They are more durable and if you're not a lampworker, or sufficiently skilled, their full range and abilities may not be appreciated. You're not wrong, Larry, but they are not the right torch for everyone doing furnace work.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:17 AM
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[quote=Sky Campbell;142348]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cazes View Post

I have suspected a set up like that could deliver the most heat without effecting color or phase separation.

http://www.agfburner.com/products/qu...urfacemix.html
******
If you are referring to bubbles released into the glass when it gets too hot, I think that's valence shift, not phase separation. Just nitpicking.
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Old 12-25-2018, 03:54 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Kube View Post
I agree that the GTT are superior torches for lampworking and while they are still excellent at the bench, a Nortel midrange will do just about anything you need for softglass. They are more durable and if you're not a lampworker, or sufficiently skilled, their full range and abilities may not be appreciated. You're not wrong, Larry, but they are not the right torch for everyone doing furnace work.
Absolutely right Jordan. I do both Large scale lampwork, upwards of 2 full pounds of boro, and furnace work and for me the advantage of the extra set of oxygen ports enables things I cannot do with other torches. This can be used to advantage in the hotshot as well but there is a learning curve associated with that. The port geometry overall is different as well and makes them the most efficient torches that I have found and it saves me a lot of money in oxygen costs. Im just suggesting that there are advantages to be had beyond the traditional designs that had been suggested in the thread.
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Old 12-25-2018, 03:58 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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[quote=Sky Campbell;142348]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cazes View Post

i think your wrong but I come from a different background so maybe it's perspective. In the world of scientific glass which is the origins of all of these bench burners gtt has still not taken over the marketplace. Not because they aren't a superior torch but more so because you can easily do the job with less. I understand many people believe a better tool will make them a better glass blower I just don't subscribe to that idea.

I'm curious if you have tried a AGF fire with hydrogen for off hand work? I ask because for a long time I have suspected a set up like that could deliver the most heat without effecting color or phase separation.

http://www.agfburner.com/products/qu...urfacemix.html
I have yet to consider what Hydrogen may add to my capabilities. My gas supplier has been hinting at that for years as a possible improvement.
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Old 12-25-2018, 04:58 PM
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Bow down to the clean invisible flame.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Kube View Post
I agree that the GTT are superior torches for lampworking and while they are still excellent at the bench, a Nortel midrange will do just about anything you need for softglass. They are more durable and if you're not a lampworker, or sufficiently skilled, their full range and abilities may not be appreciated. You're not wrong, Larry, but they are not the right torch for everyone doing furnace work.
Plus the midrange has knobs handy for one hand changes of flame size/characteristics. I find that super handy when sculpting
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Old 01-01-2019, 05:11 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Myers View Post
Plus the midrange has knobs handy for one hand changes of flame size/characteristics. I find that super handy when sculpting
The GTTs do as well. I dont care if anyone uses them or not. Im just showing that there is much newer technology out there that might make your life easier and just might enable new things in your game. Peace all.

Last edited by Larry Cazes; 01-01-2019 at 05:15 PM.
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