CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk  

Go Back   CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk > Hot Glass > General Hot Glass Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-07-2019, 11:24 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 736
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is on a distinguished road
Too much

This is stupid, at any given time there is 150 viewers here, we are about 20 active people spilling beans, about everything we know about what we know, sharing
When I found Pete we were actually 12 people on his board.
Ill share to everyone running a studio, but wont post to all of the world anymore
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-07-2019, 11:51 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 736
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is on a distinguished road
Who the hell are all these people Pete? What countries?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-08-2019, 12:54 AM
Sean Jones Sean Jones is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Staffordshire U.K.
Posts: 16
Sean Jones is on a distinguished road
Iím a weekend warrior in th UK
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:36 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Most are lurkers who for whatever reason do not wish to join. I can see what everyone is looking at on the board at any time and the variants are remarkable. Most lurking are in the archives. We don't offer a venue for people showing their work which Glassies does do. I'm quite determined to continue that policy. Further, a lot of the people who don't post shouldn't post. They don't know anything at all. The bulk are still USA and are students. We do have a sizeable european contingent based on ISP data.

That being said, I don't trust the accounting of activity on the board at all. It will list you for four hours even if you stay on for 30 seconds. It also lists a user twice if they reopen the same thread while lurking.
Twice we have had these sky high numbers for no reason I can discern beyond periodically being bombed by companies that want to farm information. I'm actually quite touchy about approving a member. I insist on real names and do check them out and a lot of people don't like that.

The advantage to membership is being able to see some information others cannot see. I started that during the Bullseye controversy since I didn't want lawyers casually harvesting information. I am considering making the color board members only as well.

I would be a bit sad if you maintained that stance Michael. I find that not a week goes by where I don't learn something useful here and I've been at it fifty years.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-08-2019, 07:45 AM
Sean Jones Sean Jones is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Staffordshire U.K.
Posts: 16
Sean Jones is on a distinguished road
Iíve learnt so much. I love the openness on your site and I feel should contribute what little I have.
Iíve built my furnace, glory hole and lehr from info here and in glass notes. Made my jacks and blowpipes etc.
One observation worth a mention is the power supply to my melter. I took the advice given and got as much wire in there as was possible without the Kanthal coils being too tight. Bought a used phase angle SCR on eBay to dial down the current from 70A to 20A but found that the my domestic overload (MCB) thinks Iím drawing 70A! Otherwise itís gone very well.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2019, 09:09 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Jones View Post
Iíve learnt so much. I love the openness on your site and I feel should contribute what little I have.
.
*******
That's the sort of response I get in my email in general. I only get negative feedback from a singular personality type and I can see it coming from day one.

Based on the threads the lurkers open, it's easy to see people hungry for information and the site provides it to those younger glassworkers. It operates on at least two levels and the other primarily is the professional studio operator with some midnight problem. Just below them is the studio operator wannabe and they get some great advice from folks who have been there and done that.
Contrast that with people I have seen trying to charge someone to tell them what chemical goes into a fuming solution. There seem to be jerks everywhere but we don't get many.

Over the period of time we've been poking at it here, many of that old school have retired or died. For some of them, their memory lives on. My electric cow eyeballs from Brian who I think of at least once a week with his ee cummings approach to writing. . People like Heidi Broderbund provided some high level entertainment as did the sacred geometry.

Way back, when Katie and I were circling each other, I asked her to trust me with control of a chaotic site for 60 days. She held the levers of power while now we both have them. I told her I could civilize it by being respectful and informative and that I would take a major major hand in its ovesite. I view it as a teaching position and it has evolved in quite a remarkable way. It has resulted in so few people being banned over the 18 years that it surprises me. I think real names was a good plan.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2019, 09:31 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 4,537
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
Brian was quite the character !
__________________
<eben epoiese>
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-08-2019, 09:36 AM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hills of Tennessee
Posts: 1,402
Tom Fuhrman is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
Brian was quite the character !
an amazing individual!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-08-2019, 09:47 AM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 736
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is on a distinguished road
So you mean there is not 228 lurkers right now? What % do you estimate come from countries known for stealing/copying ideas, technology?
Yes Im all for sharing, its great Im just questioning with who
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-08-2019, 10:25 AM
Mark Rendulic Mark Rendulic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 23
Mark Rendulic is on a distinguished road
I have been a lurker for quite a few years and all I can say is thank you so much to everybody because you have all helped me build my new shop. As I learn and grow as a glass junkie I hope to have something of value to add to this board.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-08-2019, 10:34 AM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 296
Max Epstein is on a distinguished road
If you're that concerned... post in off-topic where the "lurkers" can't see.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-08-2019, 12:15 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I could make general discussion blocked by no one board members but that seems to me to have thrown out the premise Katie and I started with , which was education and information exchange.

I alluded to the guy who wanted to charge another glass worker about what fumed glass. To me, that's such stupidly common knowledge that I thought it bordering on criminal to try to pull that crap off. I still think that.

I'm not sure what secret information has been put out here beyond work on the chemistry of color except for sourcing supplies of obtuse information. Any experienced studio should be able to get the info they need to survive without Craftweb.
That being said, I would note that the classified section is really quite active and things are bought and sold with great efficiency. That tells me a lot about its effectiveness. Buildings get sold, furnaces, that surprises me.

I don't necessarily think that information is easy for young people starting out. They way glass is taught now is very different than when I was a kid. Kids went to school and fundamentally learned technique as it could be applied to aesthetics. As a group, we were proud neanderthals, "the Truck drivers of the art world". A badge of honor.

Money did indeed change all of that and for an extended period of time, the world was our oyster financially which is a lot of why I get to run this show for no compensation. But somewhere along the line studios became more common than Chevron stations. Glass became common in the worst sense of the term. The mystique was gone and people were ( again) learning in different ways. People apprentice and only make what the shop makes as a product. Tons of you try to emulate the stemware techniques from five hundred year dead yeoman in Murano. I don't remotely see why anyone would want to do that but there it is. To me now, the craziest thing I could think of doing would be to try to beat that Steam Driving machine that killed John Henry, but here we are. Making Pumpkins. ( I don't).

So, confronted with the twists in how people learn, many are wearing total blinders as to the larger glass world around them and the gory details of its complexities. These days I contemplate the radius measurements of atoms to help me understand color and expansion and viscosity. Then I get wailed on by some kid who thinks I'm stealing barium secrets from someone and make noise about intellectual property rights.

What I keep trying to do here at craftweb is to make some of this junk more comprehensible for more people. I get a great deal of aid from glassworkers who find that it gives as much as it takes. For me, deep in these New Hampshire woods now at 69, it's a lifeline to a world In which I once was a prince of. Not these days. Now, more an old fart on the porch who knows more than many about running a shop, big or small. There will always be assholes and there always will be thieves. Stay in touch with what you can can't share.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-08-2019, 12:22 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig View Post
So you mean there is not 228 lurkers right now? What % do you estimate come from countries known for stealing/copying ideas, technology?
Yes Im all for sharing, its great Im just questioning with who
******
You mean China? We have a few members from China but unless they can pay for multiple VPN's every month ( eveline has to) the government blocks their communications effectively. Eveline doesn't want to sell here at all.

The latest theft I'm aware of is once again the formulation for SP87. Most of you will probably buy it.
Right now, there's about 350 lurkers having checked in and out over the last four hours. That's not a small number in my mind.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-08-2019, 02:13 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 286
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
Lurkers gonna lurk. It's the internet, never post anything you don't want everyone to see.

I'll admit to having been one for a long time, but as others have said, this has been an amazing resource for those looking for help in the hot shop. It's amazing to me that nearly all glass programs teach nothing about studio maintenance and equipment other than how to turn it on, if that. Knowing the basics of wiring has led to pretty financial reliability, and let me make the work I want to, while only having to worry about making pumpkins as my bonus check for the year. When you're in an interview and can say "yeah, I can fix that", it holds a lot more sway than "look at my sweet goblets".

I'm having a hard time finding anything on here that would be worthy of outrage from theft. As you pointed out, it's a compilation of material that is mostly already out there, and none of it is going to make or break a studio. As far as the flame bro trying to sell "secrets", there is always someone that will take advantage of those willing to pay for easy information, but a site like this helps level the field.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg lurkers.jpg (20.7 KB, 28 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-08-2019, 02:23 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
well, if you understand the manual for a Love 16B controller, tell me about it. I have spent hours now trying to set up it's basic program.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-08-2019, 02:53 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 286
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
I actually did at one point, but I think I blocked that hell from my brain when we moved to GB's. I may know someone with a better memory than me though.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-08-2019, 03:07 PM
Greg Vriethoff's Avatar
Greg Vriethoff Greg Vriethoff is offline
PotatoFish
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,089
Greg Vriethoff is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete vanderlaan View Post
...the sacred geometry.
**********
gmbm.jpg
__________________
"Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement." - Jackson Pollack
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-08-2019, 03:30 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
On the first page of the lurkers, here's what they are looking at. I have fifteen pages with 25 lurkers per page. A sample from page one:
Every one is from the archives, each is a thread title.

Furnace for Sale
Spectrum premium nuggets, corrosive or not?
Englesby Lathe
Advice on batch in a wire melter
Moly build Feb 2012
Color Pot furnace
Reverse color fade
For the wire Furnaces
Cost of Materials
Digitry love story
Cullet Shortage
Studio Operation with Cristalica Cullet
Justification of Insanity
Color Melting Class
Is Steinert going downhill
Studio in Iceland
Quagliata Technique
Optic molds.
******
Not a one looking at the active materials. I would note as an example the Optic Molds thread is being looked at on two separate computers with very close IP's. Two kids sitting side by side I'd wager. Again, I have 375 of these things I could examine and it is in constant flux. They can't see cords seeds and stones.. Some are trying to write in to the board but not being members, they can't. The number who screw up the registration process is high. They really don't like their own names in print. I don't care. It's basic.

This shows how valuable the archives really are as a resource. A compilation of 18 years of questions which at one point Henry declared all the questions answered and we were done. Between Henry's book ( vol 3 and 4) and craftweb, it's quite remarkable how much is here and equally remarkable how infrequently universities use it as a resource. But I don't sense stealing information at all. I sense kids in a candy store. Cullet shortage" has 24 thousand views. "Furnace Build Thread" 322,803 views. "Speaking of Cullet" 163 thousand views.

but the sacred geometry couldn't go to the lawn?
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-08-2019, 04:32 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 4,537
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
well, if you understand the manual for a Love 16B controller, tell me about it. I have spent hours now trying to set up it's basic program.
Have you ever owned a digitry ?
__________________
<eben epoiese>
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-08-2019, 05:10 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
No, and I never will. Hopefully these are the last two units I will ever have to buy. $85 and 90 dollars each. Eric is coming up this weekend to save me.

My thoughts about the lurkers links back to stuff Henry suggested to me when Glassnotes IV was being contemplated. There were folks who were concerned that if they published, they would damage their businesses.
Far from the truth, the publications enhanced their businesses since the bulk of people did not really want to build their own tools. They wanted , in someone's words, they said "I don't care I want to blow Glass".

If you've had 75 thousand views of your opinion, I suspect you've been honored actually, not ripped off at all.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-08-2019, 05:25 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 286
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
The digitry's do have their issues, but for changing programs on the fly they're hard to beat. The PID style controllers have always had terrible interfaces, and worse manuals. I did see a couple youtube tutorials for them, but nothing that grest. They're cheap, replace easy, and useful when you just need a set point, but I hate them.

A tech's choice of existence is an interesting one. People may not always want your glass, but there is always someone that wants you to fix their stuff. To build or not to build? That is the question.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-08-2019, 05:41 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,241
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
well, I've brought it up before but one has to question the existence of the shop tech. Where did they come from?

Once the actuarialists in insuring the schools got to the point where they realized that the tooling was not UL, and they fell off the floor responding, it got infinitely worse when they found out that the students were actually turning the knobs and dials.

Th apoplexy for the lawyers was beyond the pale and it finished off the programs for the most part. gone was the concept that you could learn to build the tooling to have your own shop in the future. "The Shop Tech is in charge". You might as well have been on the moon with that degree.
They filled the pots, fixed the tools, wrote the annealing programs, blah blah blah making the student graduates into eunuchs.

So one has to ask, right up to today, where the Hell did the shop Tech come from? I know of no Shop Tech School. Someone help me out. Where was this rare bird trained and what is the holy degree of the SHop tech that keeps them immune for the actuarialists?

Back when I ran the Santa Fe Fire Depts, I was one day visited by my insurors who wanted to review my risk management positions for the 13 districts I oversaw. They wanted finally to know about my "Errors and Omissions" policies and I questioned what that was although I already knew. The agent explained smoothly that I was covered for what we did at Emergency Scenes but this insurance would cover what we didn't do.

I absorbed that for a minute and then told him to cancel all of my insurance and to get out of my office. The Next Morning I was at the State Corporation Commission office and I told them I wanted to self insure from that point on and what did they need to set me up. I paid the first premium and for the next three years continued to put that cash in. When finally, we had a lawsuit filed against us, the plaintiffs found we were self insured and they dropped the case.

So, who are these shop Techs? I've met some I consider reasonably competent and some, not so much. Who made this judgement?
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:07 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hills of Tennessee
Posts: 1,402
Tom Fuhrman is on a distinguished road
I think they were evaluated the same way batch masters were at the factories for many years. If things worked reasonably well they were OK, some screw ups they were relegated to finding a new position somewhere that their reputation had not been exposed or they could talk their way into the position with an ample amount of BS.
I think the same was true when I was going to college and there were shop techs in the wood and metals shops, Some were good and some were lucky to find the switch to turn on the machines. Good sound experience and exposure to various environments was one of the most important factors to their success.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:09 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
?
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,683
Jordan Kube is on a distinguished road
What exactly are you afraid of Michael? You've posted a lot of good info over the years but nothing I would consider something that would be the lynchpin of a business for others to copy and put you out of business or something.
__________________
WWUD? Think for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-08-2019, 09:16 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 923
Larry Cazes is on a distinguished road
Lots of followers out there in the art world. Be a leader and innovator and you never have to worry about this kind of thing.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:55 PM.


All published comments within these message boards are the opinions of its contributor and does not represent
the opinion(s) of the owner(s) of this website. Please see the Terms of Use file for more details.

Books to Help Artists Avoid Online Scams: Top 10 Email Scams | Social Media Scams

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© CraftWEB.com. Opportunity Network. 2008. All Rights Reserved.