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Old 04-16-2019, 07:24 PM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is offline
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Framing rondel windows

Iím currently renovating an old Japanese house and want to include some rondel windows in the interior walls for light and accents. The existing walls are wattle and daub and the rondels installed in those will be held in place with clay and lime plaster. Im ok with the process for those walls (I think...).

Im looking for a good way to frame rondels into a couple of 2x4 walls Iím adding to the existing building. Theyíll be be drywalled and covered with a traditional lime plaster. I was thinking to create a wood frame within the wall to hold the rondel or sandwich it between two pieces of plywood before attaching to wall framing. And then plaster around that but figured there has to be somebody else who has done it before and better. Any ideas?

Iíd also love to learn how to frame a rondel into an exterior wall so it wonít leak even in a typhoon (hurricane). I thought long and hard on that one before giving up on it and getting the walls up and a roof on cuz sometimes you just gotta git-r-dun.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:51 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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Might not be as aesthetically pleasing but a lot of places with older exterior stained glass have another glass or poly carbonate shield in front of them these days for vandals and such. You might think about framing in a window and then affixing the rondel to the interior.
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Kube View Post
Might not be as aesthetically pleasing but a lot of places with older exterior stained glass have another glass or poly carbonate shield in front of them these days for vandals and such. You might think about framing in a window and then affixing the rondel to the interior.
****
I agree. Further if the wall is load bearing at all, it needs a lintel over the installation.
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Old 04-20-2019, 05:16 PM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is offline
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Iím just planning on installing the rondels in interior walls for now. Theyíll be placed between studs on the 2x4 walls and enbetted in the existing wattle and daub in the existing post and beam house. As w&d is not well known, itís a bamboo lathe between the posts which is then covered with a clay and straw plaster, a clay and sand plaster, and often some other plaster finish. Itís the traditional wall here which Iím finding to be a really great building material for so many reasons. Itís seldom used in new construction cuz you need skilled professionals and a few months to get it done right- not to mention the fact that the mud mix is aged/fermented for several weeks to years before it is used. drywall is so much faster.


Good point on door and window headers for bearing walls. Theyíve all been taken care. I tend to overbuild far more than we ever used to when I was a carpenter. Water more than structure is what has been the real challenge. Time repairing dry rot in Seattle apartment buildings really made me sensitive to the effects of condensation in a humid climate. We can also get 2-3 feet of rain in a couple days when a typhoon hits us right. Or Wrong. Construction was so much more straightforward in dry climates. No termites either!
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:19 PM
Steven O'Day Steven O'Day is online now
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I haven't used wattle and daub but have done some adobe, clay plaster and light clay straw construction which are similar. The problem with placing glass into the wall held in place with the plaster will be the shrinkage of the clay in relation to the glass and movement of the wall due to temperature and moisture changes. It might work and it might fall right out.
In an adobe wall what is referred to as a rough buck would be used, this is a wood frame that is set into the wall when it is being constructed and then the window is attached to it. This sounds more obtrusive than what you are after. How about copper foil/solder or lead came around the outside and then suspending the roundel on wires soldered to the came and then building up the w&d around it?
Or you could construct a form and embed it in the wall during construction and then removed. The glass then could be held in place with silicone or maybe mortar.
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:42 AM
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I have a material that I use in absolute no shrink situations called "Water Putty.
It doesn't shrink.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:56 PM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is offline
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Thanks Steven and Pete.

For the wattle and daub wall, I misted the area I planned to install the rondels multiple times over the course of an hour to get soften up the clay, drilled a series of holes around the perimeter with an unloved auger bit, knocked out the clay to make a hole a little bigger than the rondel, and trimmed the bamboo lathe to make a hole a little smaller than the diameter (1/4-3/8Ē) of the rondels. I wedged them in so they were held in snugly by the trimmed ends of the bamboo and one lateral support board within the wall. They seemed quite stable and it required a bit of push and shove to get them in or out. I plastered them in with clay straw plaster mixed with as little water as I thought I could get away with and still have workability. There is at least 1/2Ē of clay around the circumference of the rondel holding them in. The clay is about 1Ē thick on both sides and that clay is some tough stuff. There will be another clay/sand layer over the base layer once it dries and probably a lime plaster finish coat.

If it looks like the rondels are loose Iíll be trying to figure out how to say ďwater puttyď in Japanese....

For the 2x4 partition walls Iíll probably make a rough duck frame with 1x or 2x4 or some plywood or maybe steam and bend a frame and install the drywall over that. Iíll cover that with traditional lime plaster and make it look nice.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:09 PM
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silicon caulk works too. It's just ugly. You little hippie you.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:55 PM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
silicon caulk works too. It's just ugly. You little hippie you.
Not strawbale so not hippie....
The wattle and daub is repair and alterations to the old school Japanese house Iím working on. Great material but it takes months to make a wall (years if you include the clay fermentation/aging) so seldom used now.

Interestingly, experience maintaining glass furnaces has paid off with this technique. A long preferred furnace refractory here is basically a sticky, gloppy mix of fiber, rigidizer and who knows what else. You trowel it on and fire it up. Great for filling gaps. Was used on inside and outside of furnaces, glories, kilns, nuclear reactors and entertained visiting relatives. Caused a real panic when it was discontinued last year cuz it had things in it which might be hazardous to your health.

Iím thinking the clay from the walls I removed here, mixed with vermiculite and Portland cement, will make a good backup insulation for a furnace.
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