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  #51  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:30 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Arentzen View Post
Back to Kugler white and my earlier post. It appears that Kugler may have had difficulty with recent batches of 61 turning pinkish beige. If you have batches with low numbers as they have recently reset, like 0004, it probably doesn't look the way you would expect.
That's not the only problem kuglar has been having. I believe they just got out of bankrupts and they just let go their manager. I gleaned all of this off of their Facebook page
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  #52  
Old 04-19-2017, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
That's not the only problem kuglar has been having. I believe they just got out of bankrupts and they just let go their manager. I gleaned all of this off of their Facebook page
****
While I can see that two people have left the employment at Kugler since December, it is not at all clear to me that it suggests bankruptcy. I believe that Kugler is one of the sponsors for Murano 2018 so that would be a potentially significant event if true.
As to the white: As Mark and I continue to test the goop he continues to experiment with, we have had at least one of the tests turn first a pink, and then to a gray once in my hands. Both are extremely dense. Given that they do not contain either Lead or Arsenic, I can conclude at least that the color can come from another source and I continue to consider Titanium or Stannic Oxide. It did occur in reduction and required multiple reheats in that atmosphere to get it go. So far, only one test has yielded a pink tone. The rest are a dense white..
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  #53  
Old 04-19-2017, 05:12 PM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is offline
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It's already here. They call it plate glass. Soft drink bottles are a close second but don't quite have the luster.
I'm actually serious - to have a very stiff clear with an optical clarity and density similar to my clear base would be a very useful thing.

For me it would open up a whole lot of possibilities.
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  #54  
Old 04-19-2017, 05:15 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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insolvency - I read it here

http://www.kuglercolors.de/english/default_e.htm
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  #55  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:15 PM
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well OK, I read that as five years ago a bit more actually.
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  #56  
Old 04-19-2017, 08:28 PM
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Peter Bowles won't a stiff clear be very difficult to work with?
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  #57  
Old 04-20-2017, 02:04 AM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is offline
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Franklin, yes for normal purposes it would be. The duros now available to us (from gaffer) were certainly a surprise to work with at first, but once you work out how to deal with them they are pretty straight forward to use.

The interesting thing about having a stiff clear is that it could be used in conjunction as an overlay on any of the palette of colours available to us - and effectively make them all behave like a duro. All those softer purpurs, roses, weimerarners, copper transparents could get tightened up with a single layer of stiff clear run over them. Would make an extraordinary difference to detail in murrine and cane, and would offer all sorts of other possibilities in creating textures and patterns.
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  #58  
Old 04-20-2017, 02:19 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Bowles View Post
Franklin, yes for normal purposes it would be. The duros now available to us (from gaffer) were certainly a surprise to work with at first, but once you work out how to deal with them they are pretty straight forward to use.

The interesting thing about having a stiff clear is that it could be used in conjunction as an overlay on any of the palette of colours available to us - and effectively make them all behave like a duro. All those softer purpurs, roses, weimerarners, copper transparents could get tightened up with a single layer of stiff clear run over them. Would make an extraordinary difference to detail in murrine and cane, and would offer all sorts of other possibilities in creating textures and patterns.
Your Stiff clear would be gabbert's C4 cullet.
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  #59  
Old 04-20-2017, 03:05 AM
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That's a fascinating concept Peter re a super stiff clear. Much food for thought there. You are limited by the LEC of course, but even so, some exotic possibilities offer themselves as candidates. It overcomes the difficulties of some color systems being inherently sloppy like copper blues for instance..

My take on the pink E/white phenomena, particularly manifesting as gathering rings on bar, is that it comes from the extreme metaphillic nature of very high levels of lead arsenate stripping gold vapour deposits off the furnace crown and side walls during the melt. (This is using an open pot obviously) Very high levels of lead arsenate can strike extremely low levels of Au. It only take a few parts of Au per 10 million. Pink rings never show up when melting E/white in a virgin pot and furnace.
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  #60  
Old 04-20-2017, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Croucher View Post
That's a fascinating concept Peter re a super stiff clear. Much food for thought there. You are limited by the LEC of course, but even so, some exotic possibilities offer themselves as candidates. It overcomes the difficulties of some color systems being inherently sloppy like copper blues for instance..

My take on the pink E/white phenomena, particularly manifesting as gathering rings on bar, is that it comes from the extreme metaphillic nature of very high levels of lead arsenate stripping gold vapour deposits off the furnace crown and side walls during the melt. (This is using an open pot obviously) Very high levels of lead arsenate can strike extremely low levels of Au. It only take a few parts of Au per 10 million. Pink rings never show up when melting E/white in a virgin pot and furnace.
*********
Interesting take and I would have thought the same and it may well be the case with the Lead Arsenate,...but Mark and I are getting the pink on drawn cane for certain melts in a furnace that to the best of my knowledge has never contained gold. Top that with the fact that we're getting it in a glass that contains no lead or arsenic. Maybe there's more than one way to make a pink in a dense enamel. It's kind of a stretch to call them glasses. I would think that the stiff clear could be made using a high alumina content.
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  #61  
Old 04-20-2017, 04:47 PM
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Why can't the really runny colors like copper blue be stiffened up with additives that don't affect the color? Are all agents that would stiffen also send the LEC into orbit?
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  #62  
Old 04-20-2017, 05:35 PM
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I'll let John expound. It's one of his favorite tirades. Copper is very strange stuff. It behaves completely differently in oxidation as opposed to in reduction.
I'm with him. I hate working with the stuff.
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  #63  
Old 04-27-2017, 09:10 AM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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One of the joys of the old FHC cullet was it being stiff but long working. You really do want the long working part. It's a treat.

As per Pete the best long/stiff glass I found was a bunch of plate I turned into C-balls years ago by upping the LEC with lithium and Borax to match the colors. It would just sit there with no droop but you could tool on it almost forever.

Get the silica content up to 70% and that helps. Closest I've come in "pretty" glasses.

Plate and bottle glasses are high calcium, like around 10% and lots of silica, very little sodium (compared to art glass).
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  #64  
Old 05-02-2017, 12:01 PM
Rich Arentzen Rich Arentzen is offline
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Gaffer White

The Gaffer white has a tendency to produce small pin hole bubbles when blown thin. Any thoughts?
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  #65  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:54 PM
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I'm guessing it's a phase separation glass. It should be. I just don't know John's specific formula.
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  #66  
Old 05-02-2017, 03:16 PM
Rich Arentzen Rich Arentzen is offline
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Any thoughts John?
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  #67  
Old 05-02-2017, 06:23 PM
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News to me Rich. Never heard of that before. The rogue bar maybe?
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  #68  
Old 05-02-2017, 07:06 PM
Rich Arentzen Rich Arentzen is offline
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I am afraid to say that this is not the case. The amber does the same thing. Neither the Reichenbach nor the Kulgler do this. I love Gaffer so I am not complaining and I like the workkability of the enamel white better than Kugler or Reichenbach, and the batches tend to be more consistent, but we blow hundreds of thin white globes for lighting a month and once a light is put into the Gaffer white, almost all of the pieces have one or two small pinholes that can't be seen without a light.
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  #69  
Old 05-03-2017, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Arentzen View Post
almost all of the pieces have one or two small pinholes that can't be seen without a light.
********
I think that if you blow out a glass thin enough that if it shows 1 or 2 small pinholes in a lit globe is asking more of the glass than can be reasonably expected. A pinhole in a thin blown out globe would be a bubble under 20mu I would guess .
We used to see bubbles magnified in gluing up Schott with hxtal. The bubbles were always magnified when squished. We could not tell that those bubbles were there when looking at the glue bed. They were too tiny to spot let alone remove.

If you're making hundreds of globes, I think you might be better off making up an opal white that suits the needs of the fixture. Drawing an opal directly from the pot would save you an enormous amount of time making the things.

Making color isn't easy and you certainly get judged an inch at a time.
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  #70  
Old 05-03-2017, 09:37 AM
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I do have a question for you Rich:
When you put the glass in your color box for making all these lamp parts, do they all go in cold with the color box cold, or are you adding color to the box as you go?

My reason for asking is that if color goes into a color box hot, it very frequently develops micro cracks and they show up later as places where bubbles can and do form.
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  #71  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:04 PM
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Another question Rich -Do you run a very hot glory hole? It could be that there is a bit of reboil going on.
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  #72  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:48 PM
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I run my hotbox up to 620 and let it soak for a good hour when using Enamel White. I've had those tiny bubbles and this seemed to cure it. Also, I pick it up on a coolish post and never heat it so it goes milky or transparent. Just nice and slow.
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  #73  
Old 05-03-2017, 06:03 PM
Rich Arentzen Rich Arentzen is offline
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We put the color in cold, the GH's are not very hot, But I will try an ice cold GH and see what I get. We have a colleague who makes a lot of lighting in Quebec from the Czech Republic and he notices the same phenomena. We use many colors and it is only the gaffer amber and white that does this. The gaffer Tea, bronze, grey and many others don't. None of the Kugler or Reichenbach colors do this. This is not to say I do not like the gaffer white. It is very consistent, covers well, does not detritrify, never turns pink, etc, but it does leave pin holes. Like Pete says, there never seems to be a free lunch.

Last edited by Rich Arentzen; 05-03-2017 at 06:11 PM.
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