CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk  

Go Back   CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk > Hot Glass > General Hot Glass Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 04-05-2017, 05:44 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Kube View Post
Thanks Pete, I'll check it out.
********
It's way hard. we've done about fifty melts.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-05-2017, 05:51 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Kube View Post
Not on topic for white but on topic for pink, has anyone gotten a chrome pink to work in glass? It seems to be something you can do in ceramic glazes:

http://ceramicartsdaily.org/ceramic-...c-glaze-color/

Pete?
***********
Occasionally, I see listing for a cobalt red. I've seen tiny red tones in intense cobalts but I'd rather try to find unicorns. If you find a chrome pink, call me. Really.
If you really do Vargin which is hard to even find, and then you do this, call me in the dead of night and I'll sit right up.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-05-2017, 06:18 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is online now
?
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,419
Jordan Kube is on a distinguished road
I ordered Vargin. Chromium is out for right now. I think that would put me on a list I don't want to be on. I'll keep you updated.
__________________
WWUD? Think for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-05-2017, 06:20 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
mine came from england
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:28 PM
Dennis Hetland Dennis Hetland is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 319
Dennis Hetland is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Frink View Post
Can somebody explain why my enamel white rod has pink concentric rings and turns/is pink where it has chipped on the outside surface? I understand the rings are there from gathering but am curious why pink? A simple chemical explanation? It looks white when blown out with no significant traces of the pink or rings.
Selenium. It blocks the yellow waves. If you're batching a selenium white you can draw out the pink by adjusting the atmosphere. Chromatic balance. Something is blocking the blue. Get a littler out of balance and you get pink.


The selenium blocking the yellow is how to get a selenium blue. Something else blocks the red.
__________________
candlewoodglass@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-08-2017, 05:55 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I would like to know your source for that opinion. I've never seen a formula for a lead arsenate that contained selenium and I can't see why one would. I think it far more likely that it's titanium. We were getting pink tone for a heartbeat in one of our samples yesterday. Then it promptly turned white again.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-08-2017, 06:10 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Archer FL(near Gainesville)
Posts: 2,860
Dave Bross is on a distinguished road
Many copies of Vargin here:

http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/sub...?author=vargin
__________________
Art is not a thing...it's a way.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-08-2017, 06:28 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Make sure you get it in english. It's a very narrow look at enamels. It does NOT offer up any general glass info. This is a drilling down on the issue and it is not easy nor is it going to give you formulas.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-08-2017, 08:32 PM
Dennis Hetland Dennis Hetland is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 319
Dennis Hetland is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
I would like to know your source for that opinion. I've never seen a formula for a lead arsenate that contained selenium and I can't see why one would. I think it far more likely that it's titanium. We were getting pink tone for a heartbeat in one of our samples yesterday. Then it promptly turned white again.
My source was a pdf of an old document. Probably 40s or 50s. It's on a computer that doesn't run anymore. I haven't read it in a few years, but I remember it was it was a study where they took I think it was 30 samples and documented things like slight variations in atmosphere (reducing) and the results it had on the glass. Which was white. Many of the samples showed pink tones or were pink.
They were rolling it into sheets.
__________________
candlewoodglass@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-09-2017, 11:49 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I think a credible argument can be made for having a very small amount of selenium in a high percentage fluorine white melt which left alone has a sort of ice blue tone to the white. The SE would offset that in fractional doses. Selenium in my experience really only shos pink tones in a high potash glass. It's a brown tone in a soda glass. It really shouldn't show at all if it's simply warming up an ice blue.

Helmer offers up only one formulation for what would be an enamel that uses a very small amount of barium selenite in it, but only the one and I've never seen it elsewhere.

The stuff Mark and I are working with is really very different containing no lead and no arsenic. All of the Helmer formulas have both of those compounds. Ours is totally non toxic. I did ring tests yesterday on the 33rd melt and they are absolutely on a 96 in both the dilatometer and the ring test. Even better, it doesn't bleed and is profoundly opaque. I wanted to see
whether it bleeds so I picked up raw white on the outside of a clear cup. It did not bleed at all but did stand slightly proud of the clear surface when blown very thin. If it is not cased in clear, which is the normal way the crazy cane people work, it turned a light pink on the surface of a cup after being in reduction in a gloryhole for some time. Then, it turned a distinct gray. Looking at the inside of the cane on the clear cup, it was a distinct white. The ring test cup remained white throughout the process. Conventional casing of this white seems in order.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:20 PM
Scott Novota's Avatar
Scott Novota Scott Novota is offline
AbbyNormal User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pensacola Florida
Posts: 2,050
Scott Novota is on a distinguished road
This is all very interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:33 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Now we're working on a proper name.

We've tried "White Trash", "White Supremacy ", "White Flight"
"Blanca Murana" "Blanca Velini" "Murano White" "Dense white", and finally "Whiteout". We have had several names that sounded a lot like a condom.

" Whiteout" is interesting in that it would conjure up a blinding snowstorm, or a fluid used in the good old days on term papers with typing errors. So, if one lived in a southern area, you would have no clue what it meant at all.

Very neat glass. I'm anxious to start some melts up here in larger quantities which invariably produce unexpected results. I have not seen a glass this dense before.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:38 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bross View Post
********
Those are great prices for the book. Anyone serious about Glass making from raw materials would want this book.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-10-2017, 06:18 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 3,822
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
If it's awesome for cane, call it "national deficit white". Because you can stretch it to infinity.

Thank you. Thank you very much. I will accept royalties in bar form.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:52 PM
Greg Vriethoff's Avatar
Greg Vriethoff Greg Vriethoff is offline
Part of the Problem
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,793
Greg Vriethoff is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
********
Those are great prices for the book. Anyone serious about Glass making from raw materials would want this book.
The first thought I have is how good of a translation is it?
__________________
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." - David St. Hubbins
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:56 AM
Marc Carmen Marc Carmen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 46
Marc Carmen is on a distinguished road
Pete, I'm very interested in trying out your titanium white. Is it as stiff as gaffers duro or is it just dense? Ive actually blown out opalo duro before and was surprised to discover that it is actually not all that dense of a color. Maybe about the same density as enamel white. Its value is all in the high viscosity, which I believe is essential for fine filligrana that gets blown out. The canes retain their roundness, never flattening out like other colors and definitely never bleeding.

I've wondered about the Chemistry of the duros. As David P said, the duro bars are noticably lighter than enamel white. Pete, where did you see literature that says the duros have no lead? The SDS on gaffers website puts them in the category of colors that are "20% lead minimum". They certainly seem like a lead arsenate, but I guess with less lead and more stiff stuff. I'm not sure what they're required to say in the SDS but theres no mention of alumina, zirconia, or titanium.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:15 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
East Bay Batch lists it as lead free. It is not mentioned at Spruce Pine or as Gaffer Inc. I do not know any other information about their product. I can comment on ours.
Ours is lead and arsenic free. Absolutely non toxic. It is indeed stiff and does not bleed on or with SP87. I did use it as a first gather on a cup and it blew out flawlessly. It is as opaque a glass as I've seen. I put a raw piece on the surface of a clear piece and it did not bleed at all. It stood slightly proud of the surface when blown very thin. The glass sailed through a ring test and measured a true 96 in the dilatometer. I have not yet done a Hagy seal but the ring test is quite conclusive.
We still have to melt the glass in larger quantities and will put it out for testing with some of what I call "crazy cane freaks". Once we've melted in larger quantities we have to decide where to do it.
The entire point of this exercise is to sell the product. Well, not entire. We are both still insatiably curious. We just like it when it involves compensation.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:19 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff View Post
The first thought I have is how good of a translation is it?
*******
It has certainly worked for us. It doesn't have formulas really. It's a conceptual book.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:51 PM
David Patchen's Avatar
David Patchen David Patchen is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,793
David Patchen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
will put it out for testing with some of what I call "crazy cane freaks".
Count me a 'crazy cane freak'. I go through duro like nobody's business so I'd love to test it.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-12-2017, 01:30 PM
Marc Carmen Marc Carmen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 46
Marc Carmen is on a distinguished road
Yes, confessed "crazy cane freak" here too. The SDS on Gaffer colors can be found here http://www.gafferglassusa.com/index....ormation_id=19
Opalo duro certainly smells like a lead arsenate when you first get it hot along with the ol' brain tingles . Pete, have you worked with opalo duro much? At its hottest it works like clay, and that is only for about 5 to 10 seconds. A raw piece placed on a fresh gather and blown out would stretch little, if at all.

IMO I really think super high viscosity is the way to go here, for cane at least. Every crazy filligrana person has experienced the vast difference between opalo duro and nero duro used in the same piece. Both are dense colors, with nero being extremely dense. The problem is that nero, though being relatively stiff (especially for a black), isn't nearly as stiff as opalo. If you were to use the the same nero zanfirico alongside opalo zanfirico in a cased and blown out piece, the nero lines may end up twice as wide as the opalo lines and very slightly washed out. And I'd bet that nero is a denser color than opalo. An entirely different formula of glass.

Its not uncommon for cane people to overlay nero over a light color duro to get black lines that hold up well. The reasoning is that the core of opalo will never "fan out" and flatten. All the fine black threads in my work are nero duro over grigio duro . Its the only thing that works in my experience.

Yes, I know all about the insatiable curiosity when melting colors. The worst is when you get stuck pursuing a color you just know will probably never be in your palette haha.

Last edited by Marc Carmen; 04-13-2017 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-12-2017, 02:07 PM
David Patchen's Avatar
David Patchen David Patchen is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,793
David Patchen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Carmen View Post
Yes, confessed "crazy cane freak" here too. The SDS on Gaffer colors can be found here http://www.gafferglassusa.com/index....ormation_id=19
IMO I really think super high viscosity is the way to go here, for cane at least. Every crazy filligrana person has experienced the vast difference between opalo duro and nero duro used in the same piece. Both are dense colors, with nero being extremely dense. The problem is that nero, though being relatively stiff (especially for a black), isn't nearly as stiff as opalo.
Totally agree. The black needs to be as stiff as the white. I don't like the black much because it's too soft. Density is fine, but if it's not stiff it doesn't matter much, since the runniness of it tends to blur it out.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-12-2017, 07:07 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
The new white is tight. We do experience difficulty when the base clear gets turned upside down and then the complaint lays on us without our ever having changed a thing.
The white is very tight. In my clears, the black is tight as well but not as much as the white.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-19-2017, 01:29 AM
Peter Bowles Peter Bowles is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Breadalbane, Tasmania
Posts: 576
Peter Bowles is on a distinguished road
There is a strong case to be made for making a really stiff clear.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:38 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 18,923
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
It's already here. They call it plate glass. Soft drink bottles are a close second but don't quite have the luster.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-19-2017, 10:34 AM
Rich Arentzen Rich Arentzen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 151
Rich Arentzen is on a distinguished road
Back to Kugler white and my earlier post. It appears that Kugler may have had difficulty with recent batches of 61 turning pinkish beige. If you have batches with low numbers as they have recently reset, like 0004, it probably doesn't look the way you would expect.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 PM.


All published comments within these message boards are the opinions of its contributor and does not represent
the opinion(s) of the owner(s) of this website. Please see the Terms of Use file for more details.

Books to Help Artists Avoid Online Scams: Top 10 Email Scams | Social Media Scams

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CraftWEB.com. Opportunity Network. 2008. All Rights Reserved.