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Old 03-04-2018, 01:50 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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Using a gold coin for making gold sands?

I'm going to see what I can achieve on a couple melts involving gold soon. Would like to hit a nice gold ruby and purple based off a couple of Pete's formulas from the last class. I have all the ingredients and ventilation, perhaps including the gold if you count some "Double Eagle" US coins I inherited a couple years ago. I see on wikipedia that they were minted with a 90% gold and 10% copper alloy. I'm not sure how much value these have on top of the intrinsic material weight, they aren't in perfect condition but I'd check on that before proceeding after asking the question I have: If I do use a coin, or part of one, would I have to make gold "shavings" first or would a big chunk suffice for making an aqua regia? And would the 10% copper content of the coin cause any issues if I'm not planning on doing a cadmium color? Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:02 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
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Also curious about gold rubies but it's been 12 years since I took the class and can't remember much of what was talked about.
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:10 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Id try to trade them in for pure gold. Why take chances?
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:44 PM
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David Patchen David Patchen is offline
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Why not use 24 karat leaf? It’s cheap for small amounts and it’s pure gold. You can send me the double Eagles
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:40 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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You'll need gold chloride, which you can buy, and the info from Pete (who makes his own gold chloride) is here:

http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread....ght=gold+sands

and some more from Pete circa the lost Craftweb archives:

"Gold Sands are sands impregnated wiuth gold chloride. I will have a full lurid treatise on it in my vapor book. Essentially you add gold chloride to silica in a one gram per hundred gram ratio and mix it well. The aqua regia is the carrier for the gold chloride. I mix it up like a very sticky bisquick mix using my very best non leaking rubber gloves. This really stinks and should be done in a very well insulated area.
You will have a LOT of trouble making a gold glass without lead. It can be done but it's weak. It also needs selenium to set the strike crystals in action. I would advise procuring a bit of Lead monosilicate if you are serious. It won't kill you but treat it with respect. Up to 10% in a batch and you can replace the calcium in the glass with lead gram for gram."

More:

http://www.glafo.se/pdf/2005/C_Stalh...red_colour.pdf
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:44 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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leaf is far from cheap. Sell the coins. get 24 karat fine shot. The copper simply contaminates the process and tends to make a color much like like nice motor oil. You need both hydrochloric and nitric to make aqua regia and you can write me privately as to how to use it and what amounts to add to silica to make the sands.

You will get this great stuff and it will run a bit over a buck a pound to get intense color rod. This is for my class students. The hard part is getting the lead.
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:49 PM
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David Patchen David Patchen is offline
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I guess 'cheap' is relative. But I recently found a source for a book of 25 sheets of 24k leaf (3.5" squares) for $38. That seemed incredibly cheap and convenient if you only need a tiny bit of gold.
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Old 03-04-2018, 07:16 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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Thanks for the replies. I found a decent amount of Pb bisilicate a couple years ago. Yeah I could see about selling a coin or two but wondering if Dave's suggestion of just buying some gold chloride instead of buying the 24k shot and mixing my own aqua regia would be a better bet? The chlorides I see for sale online seem to vary from 1% to 8% or so.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:59 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Buying gold chloride is an expensive way to do it just as making silver nitrate is far cheaper than buying it, but it does take process. After my first trip to SHanghai, Wang Kai gave me three bottles of gold chloride weighing about a pennyweight each in content. That's enough to process three hundred grams of gold sands. I think it takes about 200 grams to process about 20 pounds of intense color rod. You do have to have the lead.

I get pretty absent minded with this stuff. I lost 3000 grams for about four years, then I misplaced about ten pennyweights of 24K gold which MaryBeth found last week and then found yet another 1200 grams of gold sands I made as a demo to the last color class tucked away by the big ventilating fans.
It's not hard to make. Keeping track of it is my big problem. It's true with silver shot as well.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:47 AM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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So if I do buy a bottle or two of gold chloride to save a step here, any recommendations on where to buy? Amazon offer ones that range in price and percentage of gold. Does this one below look okay? It says 5% gold solution in a 50ml bottle, about 5g gold total weight I think it says. Also, why would I need to mix this with more hydrochloric when making the gold sands? It's not sufficient to just pour the little bottle over 500g silica and let that dry? Perhaps the extra HCl is for more even distribution throughout the silica?


https://www.amazon.com/8-625-Chlorid...SR9PR983R0MC5T
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