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Old 02-24-2018, 09:14 AM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is offline
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Mounting glass on walls

A question for people who make rondel/ platter and other wall mounted work.

How do you mount the work? Foot attached to the bottom of the piece before punty? Adhesive? Original hardware or purchased?

Would a mechanical(foot bit on bottom of piece attached to a bracket) be stronger than an adhesive based system like the "Hang Your Glass system? I live in an area with significant humidity and seismic activity so I do want the strongest, shock-resistant method I can find.
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Old 02-24-2018, 09:40 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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We make them with a foot and wrap them with thick annealed copper wire and try to make it look nice.

I know what Pete will say... if you use glue, would you sleep under it?
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Last edited by Eben Horton; 02-24-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:46 AM
Chris Lowry Chris Lowry is offline
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Ive seen hang your glass systems in a gallery where the platters were on the floor after the glue failed. I would never use glue.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:45 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lowry View Post
Ive seen hang your glass systems in a gallery where the platters were on the floor after the glue failed. I would never use glue.
Its happened to me. It wasnt a platter, but a fish. Never again.
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Old 02-24-2018, 02:31 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
We make them with a foot and wrap them with thick annealed copper wire and try to make it look nice.

I know what Pete will say... if you use glue, would you sleep under it?
********
This is still the way I would still do it. I still wouldn't sleep under it.
I have this big block of glass that I made back around 1990 that was a laminate of different colors laminated hot. . It has been sitting in the glue room on a shelf since we moved here 12 years back and it was made well before we moved.

It split in half about four months ago and one half went on the floor. When Dale did "Chihuly over Venice", he wanted to hang a bunch of the work over the Grand Canal. The Italians took a look at the work and said "No'".
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:02 PM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is offline
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Thank you for the glue stories. That's kinds what I was worried about.

When you add the foot in the hot shop, Is there a standard diameter connection point you want for strength for different diameters? 1"? 1.5"?

Where the foot connects to the piece, would a sloped connection (think a big, underjacked avolio or the point where a pulled stem was meets a wine glass bowl) be stronger than a straight connection (cylindrical foot joined to piece at 90 degrees)?


I'm looking for a clean looking way to mount 12-18" rondel type pieces with a uniform space of 2-3" off the wall. I have an idea for a simple mounting using a cylindrical foot attached hot to the bottom of the piece before puntying which then fits into a fabricated metal bracket that is screwed to the wall. I would prefer to not reinvent the wheel if there's something better already out there.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:35 AM
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Sky Campbell Sky Campbell is offline
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Trying to post a pic. I started making these brackets to satisfy the enginerds that had to approve a platter wall up high in a hospital. Since then I found them easier then the twisted wire. Feel free to use the design. If you paint the brackets the same as the wall color they almost disappear. I also use mdf blocks the same size to bring things off the wall.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:42 AM
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Here's a side pic. I make these in three different opening sizes and also half the overall size for the little ones.

The one in the picture wasn't bent evenly. I'll try and post a pic of the folding jig if anyone is interested.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:47 AM
Rosanna Gusler Rosanna Gusler is offline
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Yes please do post jig.
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:02 AM
Travis Frink Travis Frink is offline
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Thank you Sky!

I like that idea better than what I'd had in mind. Mild steel? Also, May I ask what diameters you use and what different platter diameters or weight they correspond to? The one you posted looks to be a 1.5-2" opening with a .5" gap for the foot.
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Frink View Post
Thank you Sky!

I like that idea better than what I'd had in mind. Mild steel? Also, May I ask what diameters you use and what different platter diameters or weight they correspond to? The one you posted looks to be a 1.5-2" opening with a .5" gap for the foot.
I'll post a picture of the jig when I get home this evening. 6061 aluminum. The diameter is the three sizes also have to get back to you with all the dimensions. The jig allows you to fold it in such a way to make allowances for thickness of the foot. For years I made these by hand using a hole saw and bandsaw I eventually wrote it AutoCad and have them punched from a full sheet using the cnc turret punch. You would have to build the folding jig and countersink the punched holes but the rest can easily be farmed out. I may be willing to sell blanks and a folding jig if it's worth it. I considerd selling these brackets online but really they need a bit of custom fitting.

I've used this system to hang some pretty massive platters and happy to talk more about anchoring and engineered load limits when I'm home.
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Old 02-25-2018, 05:48 PM
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I'm not trying to obstruct free enterprise but it strikes me that the observation I made about glass and stress is kind of going... unnoticed.
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Old 02-25-2018, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
I'm not trying to obstruct free enterprise but it strikes me that the observation I made about glass and stress is kind of going... unnoticed.

No I don't think it's unnoticed. I would not worry about a properly applied hot foot on a well annealed piece. I've never had footed vessel just fall apart. I do appreciate the whole sleeping under it senerio and think it's a great rule to live by. My feet are clear and we have checked them for stress. You said hot laminated colors and as much as I know we all strive for compatibility when talking about color it's rarely spot on. I'm confident my pieces will be hanging as long as the building is still standing.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:28 PM
Marty Kremer Marty Kremer is online now
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I've put 15-20 lb fused disks on the wall with custom strapping thingies grabbing the edges (and silicone glue for a little overkill). I'm not sleeping under glued stuff either.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:13 PM
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Here's a picture of the jig. The slot on the left was for a stop I don't use anymore. I use one size pin to fold it over now but orginally thought that also had to be adjustable. I just fold it over the pin and leave it open more then needed. Then use a dead blow hammer to make adjustments until it's a perfect fit. A steel rod larger then the pin in the jig can be used to force to bracket open and then hammered closed with rod in place to except an oversized foot.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:16 PM
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The piece of the jig on the left is a piece of angle. That is how it's held in the vise. You could easily just weld a tab on the bottom same idea.
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:06 PM
Poppy Mussallem Poppy Mussallem is offline
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Hang Your Glass

Hello everyone,

My name is Poppy and i am one of the inventors of the Hang Your Glass hardware system. I haven't been working with glass as long as many of you but i have over 23 years of working with art glass, metal and adhesives.

In the early days of Hang Your Glass and prior to figuring out how to destructive test, i personally slept under the glass daring it to fall, that was back in 2003.

We test and test to ensure that our adhesive can stand up to anything and the wall will fail before the adhesive. For example since 2005 we have been testing it in the high desert of Bend, OR and Las Vegas, NV outdoors both have fluctuating temperatures from -15F to 115F. All successful. As long as your glass is annealed properly there is a flex agent in the Hang Your Glass adhesive that allows it to fluctuate with temperatures outside as well as in the cargo of an airplane. In fact, we have also received calls from customers who lost their homes in hurricanes but the glass on the wall remained intact. I have been through multiple earthquakes in California in which all the glass on my walls (outside and inside) has remained secure.

We are in the progress of doing some more videos and my favorite is a destructive test in which we will show an impact test of a projectile traveling at 2910 ft/sec and carrying 2810 pounds per ft literally shattering the glass into tiny pieces but what remains the same, the bond does not detach from the stand-off all three components are still intact: the stand-off, the adhesive and the glass attached to the adhesive. This video will be released in April.

Honestly, when i first debut Hang Your Glass at the Glass Art Society in 2004, my friend Judy said it best, "This is the uglyist fish i have ever seen but this hanging system is awesome." The great thing about this hardware is it allows you to create and display any shape at any angle. It allows you total creative freedom to overlap glass and to nest glass inside other pieces of glass. It shows off your art elegantly and increases the value of the art based on presentation. Last, you are not limited by the size of your kiln, let your imagination go! Attached are some pictures i thought might be of interest to the group. I love to talk tech if anyone has any questions please contact me. Sincerely, Poppy
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:31 PM
Chris Lowry Chris Lowry is offline
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Poppy, nice comments but are you saying you have never seen failures?

Any comments on how to improve success with your products or maybe more about there limitations.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:11 PM
Poppy Mussallem Poppy Mussallem is offline
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Hang Your Glass Technical Support

Hello Chris,

Yes, of course i have seen failures but they are few and far between. Most artists that have a problem with the system call us and we send them a technical sheet to receive information and pictures regarding the failure.

I work closely with them asking questions and ensuring that the Hang Your Glass system is being used with in the parameters for which it is most effective. For example, the Hang Your Glass adhesive begins to set and cure in the absence of air hence any gaps will not set and cure, thus take away from the surface area and cause the bond to fail.

Typically after having these conversations with our clientele they re-order. I always encourage everyone to do their own destructive test so they can be confident in their application and the product. This is also a great way to ensure their customers and/or galleries that the product works and their application is correct.

There have been other times that i have had a customer ship a piece of their broken glass (UPS collect on our account) so that i can run the destructive tests and then send them back to the client.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Poppy
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:18 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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As the administrator, I do like seeing the sort of information dissemination here but at a certain point. it's better to push product in the classified ads section which costs nothing. I have much more latitude when the person with product is a regular productive member of the board. When they have two posts about their own product, I'm far more antsy about it.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:25 PM
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Yes a couple questions. Thank you

First I think you ment to say it does not cure in the absence of air and not designed to fill gaps. Please correct me or your post above if that is the case.

Are you a chemist? Or did you hire a chemist to design the adhesive?

Does your product have a shelf life. In my experience all adhesives have a shelf life but Pete has said hextal does not. So I guess there must be some exceptions.

Do you mark an expiration or a born on date on your adhesives now? I ask because I ordered your system when it first showed up on the scene. I didn't use it until the following year. The glue joints failed and it was suspected that either it past its shelf life, froze in shipment or was stored in to hot of an environment.

Does the adhesive yellow or harden over time?

Great to have you on forum. Welcome
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:34 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
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Ill never forget th phone call. Hey eben, this is ____ from the gallery. You know that piece that hangs on the wall? Its not on the wall anymore.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:09 PM
Kenny Pieper Kenny Pieper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Campbell View Post

First I think you ment to say it does not cure in the absence of air and not designed to fill gaps. Please correct me or your post above if that is the case.
I don't know anything about this product but I think Poppy might have this right.
Many glues are anaerobic in that they need the absence of oxygen to set up.
Most all of the u.v. glues fall under this distinction . That is why in using these glues there is always wet glue on the surface of a bead that needs to be cleaned up.
A fellow I use to work for did a lot of hollow construction techniques in glass and we would capillary glue transparent forms shut. Over the years the glue on the surface of the interior bead would fog the inside surface of the glass a bit. Our fix was to fill the inside of the piece with nitrogen.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:35 PM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
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Anyone brave enough to mount on drywall?
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Old 02-28-2018, 05:25 PM
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Only with mechanical fittings.
Kenny is really spot on over this. That being said, you need the capacity to do what he suggested. I'e seen glue, using that term generically, fail in a lot of interesting ways. I continue to think the mechanical copper wire to be the best way to go. But given what I know about color rods, and the general level of annealing and expansion in this environment, how to inoculate themselves from a joint failure. I've heard some confident assessments of compatibility and annealing.

I still would not sleep under any of it.
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