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Old 02-28-2018, 08:46 PM
Poppy Mussallem Poppy Mussallem is offline
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Answering Sky's Questions

PM: Just to clarify my intention in participating in this forum is to give good creditable advice on any glue or display system for glass.

S: Are you a chemist? Or did you hire a chemist to design the adhesive?
PM: We work closely with chemists. Yes, the HYG adhesive begins to set and cure in the absence of air, needs flat surfaces and no gaps.

S: Does your product have a shelf life. In my experience all adhesives have a shelf life but Pete has said hextal does not. So I guess there must be some exceptions.
PM: Pete is correct HXTAL does not have a shelf life. Do keep it out of direct sunlight.

HXTAL was designed for putting sheets of glass together and thus using large surface areas. For years, many of my artist friend were using it with metal displays and very confident of its strength. A few years back we had a situation with gaps so we decided to begin testing HXTAL. I feel it is a great "gap" filling adhesive that is also stronger than the glass when it has a lot of surface area and/or a nice gap to fill.

S: Do you mark an expiration or a born on date on your adhesives now?
PM: We have always put an expiration date on the adhesive, in the beginning it was stamped and sealed. Currently it is packaged and the adhesive is stamped and on the back of the insert, bottom right corner has a sticker with the expiration date.

S: I ask because I ordered your system when it first showed up on the scene. I didn't use it until the following year.

PM: We guarantee a shelf life of a year when we ship product. It was very hard for resellers to work with a shelf life and often we did receive calls from customers who accidentally bought expired adhesive. As of last year, we list the expiration of the current batch on the website so you know exactly what you are buying, the current batch is 09/19.

PM: Did you use the adhesive with our stand-offs or another application?
How long did the adhesive adhere before failing? Please feel free to write me a personal message or call 650-353-4642 and we can discuss your particular incident. .

S: The glue joints failed and it was suspected that either it past its shelf life, froze in shipment or was stored in to hot of an environment.

PM: Ideally the adhesive should be kept away from direct sunlight and stored in temperatures between 40-82F (this is on the current insert). All of our adhesive are stored in a refrigerator. Although, when we had a distributor in Canada, there was a concern of freezing. The Adhesive can freeze but once it is unfrozen (room temperature) it is fine to use and the integrity is not compromised. The activator will not freeze.

Does the adhesive yellow or harden over time? When the activator is exposed to air it turns dark brown. If you leave the eye dropper in it will evaporate and turn into a dark syrup. A lot of new users leave the excess adhesive around the stand-off thinking it is going to provide extra strength. While HXTAL does provide extra strength when used in a gap filling and/or excess around the object. Because the HYG adhesive sets and cures in the absence of air it does not provide extra strength and will turn a dark brown from being exposed to air. In fact, as soon as the bond sets we clean up around the stand-off with 100% acetone, it actually makes the bond stronger plus there is a seamless transition between the glass and the metal and the glue does not turn brown or remain tacky around the metal cylinder again because it is exposed to air.

Hopefully this answers your questions. Again, my intention is not to push product but to ensure that it is used correctly and everyone has a successful experience. Thank you all for including me in your forum. Poppy
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:21 AM
Mike McCain
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There's probably a quick answer to this, but when a private collector wants to move and take their wall flower with them, how do they do that when it's glued to the wall?
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:41 AM
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Rich Samuel Rich Samuel is offline
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How quickly does it set up? That is, how long after putting a piece in place do you have to hold it there? Does it work well in areas of high humidity?

Last edited by Rich Samuel; 03-01-2018 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 03-01-2018, 01:12 AM
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Sky Campbell Sky Campbell is offline
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This should answer your questions.

It's a hanging system you don't glue anything to the wall.
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Old 03-01-2018, 10:17 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Hxtal was actually developed by Herbert Hillary over 35 years ago and he was proudest of it being used to reassemble the Portland Vase. Using it to adhere larger sheets or blocks of glass was really pushed by Jon Kuhn, which drew a number of other artists to using it. It has great resistance to solarization, having been theoretically stress tested out 25 years with no discernible yellowing. Paul Manners assembled his optic pieces using UV glues and he did experience some delamination a problem with virtually all adhesives with polished glass. Hxtal could be pushed by increasing the part B in the mix as well as heating it as long as one stayed below 104F. I do tend to go along with the basic guideline that the faster an adhesive sets, the weaker the joint in the long run. Think superglue.

I have to confess to being mistrustful of any adhesive that has a shelf life, wanting to know what specifically causes the degradation to occur. I don't work with UV much, having had too many surprises in failure. I do use some that have an accelerant but it's only for bases on work. I did use it periodically along with hxtal having a tiny spot of the UV set holding the hxtal surface in one place while it set. Loctite was/is the primary supplier of those UV type adhesives. I do question the notion of the material Poppy sells and ask the point blank question, "Is this simply a repackaging of someone else's product?". That's fine but I would like to know why an adhesive was created that had a relatively ( in my mind) short lifespan. I am also confused regarding the product freezing. It appears to me that in one sentence Poppy suggests that the adhesive can be allowed to freeze yet in another, it appears that the joint having frozen had caused some failure, so there, I'm confused.

At one point we were shipping a lot of work up to Aspen at the Rachael Collection and it would go UPS. The boxes got quite cold and UV joints periodically peeled off entirely from the glass. Early on in the sale of Hxtal when Conservation materials was the sole distributor, they sold a surface prep that was pretty expensive which they claimed stopped delamination. I don't recall the name. Conservation materials went belly up with a bad investment in quake wax and we resorted to buying 100% xylene from chemical supplies which is quite different than big box store xylene . It was to be added to Isopropyl alcohol at about .5%. It did make life a lot easier. Don't ever clean your glass with windex before gluing.

But none of it matters at all if the piece is not well annealed and all the colors are proven to fit.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:42 PM
Jim Bowman Jim Bowman is offline
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I have been hanging blown glass rondels like this for many years, with never a failure. I apply three small bits to the back side when hot, pinching them with a special tool I made. When the piece is cool, and I have decided which way I want the piece to hang, I drill through the remaining membrane of glass with a small diamond bit. I then attach a loop of braided steel joined with a very well-crimped ferrule. The other two bits keep the piece parallel to the wall.
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