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  #26  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:10 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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I think they start from whatever rube managed to walk into the position, natural selection sorts things out after that. Electricity is not a forgiving mistress. Also realizing when to stop and ask for help is a profound revelation. There is no "school", it's more organic than that, the good ones have a few discerning traits. The bad ones provide hours of endless entertainment.

Personally I'm a fast learner that likes research and fixing things. I was lucky to have gotten a start at the most basic of batching "tech", and followed a grad student around who knew how to actually build kilns(thanks Dubs). From there it was a progression of learned skills as they became necessary, or at least interesting. Then came the collecting of tools, I NEED them, all of them.

As far as the actuaries go it seems to be kind of a see no evil, speak no evil arrangement. Don't build things that look obviously questionable (that lampworking kiln, cough cough), and hire certified people when necessary. Also being able to talk in circles about equipment and 4 ways to shut if off helps. Learn what keeps your fire marshal happy and things tend to go smoothly. Don't piss them off, even when they're wrong. It's kind of funny how many of them are like "ooh, cool, fire".
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  #27  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:45 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I think my point is being missed a bit. I am 100% sure that the actuarial people insisted on the UL labels and I'm sure that the notion of not allowing the students to touch those valves was as well.

My question then simply becomes "what were the learning classes and experience levels required by the school to put out a job description with qualifying training in the first place". Back in '65, they always dragged someone out of the ceramics department to do it.

I would assume that there would be a required prospectus to apply for the job in the first place. I would love to see one. The people who call me regularly to order parts, pots or to get advice don't generally inspire me to believe the program is in great hands. I don't get questions on chemistry since no one does that at all.
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  #28  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:04 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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I have no doubt that actuaries want UL's, I've just never had to deal with them in the shop. Honestly if I think it was that much of an issue you'd have glassblowers trying to farm UL labels off anything they could get their hands on craigslist, seems like something glassblowers would do. Fire marshals I've has issues with, and there is no level of consistency there.

I think your are going to find the prospectus requirements for such jobs to be fairly weak and ambiguous; lift 50lbs, be on your feet, change a light bulb,pass a drug test(doubtful). From personal experience my "tech" position was just an adaptation of graduate instructor assistant or studio assistant positions. That used to be the place that you cut your teeth under someone that knew what to do, just wanted younger hands to do it. These days who knows.
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  #29  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:11 AM
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I'm sure you are correct. I think the quality of the applicant varies from school to school based on the depth of experience. I just find the insistence on UL to be inconsistent with the qualifications for the repairman,

I hate UL. It's just a shakedown operation. They come around once a year for OEM People and watch them tighten a bolt to torque specs if you're lucky. Then they hit you for 10K annual fees and give you a sheet of stickers to put on your tooling. Stadelman was one of the first to get the UL approval which became a big boost when selling tooling to institutions. That was all based around the electrical panel but the whole unit had to be approved.

Bad UL? Look at any lighting fixture in a big box store.
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  #30  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:25 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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None of these places are looking for anyone that knows specifics about code, they're also not offering that salary. The things I've had to fix at previous jobs make that lapmworking kiln look like it was engineered by Ferrari. A lot of schools have a back up in the facilities heads of their departments, those usually come with more substantial requirements, benefits too.

Considering the things you can buy at sprawlmarts, what passes for UL is a joke. Last furnace I got they had an option for UL listing, asked what extra I got for it. $5k added to the bill, and some stickers.
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  #31  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:24 AM
Charles Friedman Charles Friedman is offline
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Try this for tec. classes.

https://www.pittsburghglasscenter.or...entice-program
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Friedman View Post
****
Well, I just love the photo where the respirator is lying outside the furnace. An excellent start. It's nice to actually see some sort of formal program. Sort of.

"Don't stick a fork in the electrical outlet."
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:47 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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Forgot about that one, looked into that right out of undergrad but had something else fall into my lap. Gotta love that vow of poverty.

PChuck would also be another example, but that can be kind of a free for all. I've also run into many a doofus tech out there; don't get me started on the people they dump on the flat shop.

Penland has been pretty solid for assistants, but they've had a decent track record for lead techs.

There's also the occasional fabrication classes at all these places.

Again, what seems to be the main issue is that there are so many "techs", but few places/positions available for training at a given time. Also no standard of deviation for what is taught.
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:49 AM
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Now a standard of "deviation" sounds like my early days.
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  #35  
Old 04-09-2019, 01:05 PM
Charles Friedman Charles Friedman is offline
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[quote=Pete VanderLaan;143548]****
Well, I just love the photo where the respirator is lying outside the furnace. An excellent start.

I am glad some else picked-up on that.
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:10 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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Like I said earlier, people with experience looking to use young hands, and lungs.
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  #37  
Old 04-15-2019, 05:28 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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I like Dudleys' comment on "UL approved."

I'm going to have to paraphrase it, but, essentially,

"I didn't get into glass because it was approved"


I'm very late to the party on this one...

Missing Brian also. Only the good die young. Like someone from a fantasy book who fades into the mist.

Hell,even Heide. The entertainment value of arrogance was never funnier.
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  #38  
Old 04-15-2019, 08:14 PM
Don Geiger Don Geiger is offline
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Exclamation Oh heck yea

Dear Pete and all,

I am a lurker / troll. Or in a more PC parlance a Noobie.

I invested a heck of a lot of time scouring your message board threads before I joined.

If I knew enough to contribute I would. For now I read and ask questions.

What has been created here is amazing. I had significant trepidation's providing what was asked for when joining. I bite the bullet and joined. Bloody well glad I did too.

Dear all,

From a Noobie, What is here is very special. I'm so hyped that when I read this thread I had to respond.

I came here because when I asked a major provider about their marketing previews they wrote you guys were all that. They were right!

What you have created here is very special! With my fresh and uneducated eyes it is so very apparent I have to must let you know. Nirvana it ain't and no public forum could be. Yet, to my Noob eyes what I read here is civil and information packed I must comment.

What you all have created here is so special that if you doubt me look elsewhere. TY for sharing both your wisdom and time to my Noob questions and TY for sharing what you have going on here!

TY,

Don, a Noob
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  #39  
Old 04-16-2019, 07:02 AM
Monte G Becker Monte G Becker is offline
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Doesn't automatically log in...?

I observe a behavior that might account for some of the "trolling"... Used to be, I'd get my daily summary of CraftWEB traffic, click on a link, and I'd be logged in as "me" automatically. About 1 month ago, it stopped automatically logging in as me - brought me to the right post, but as a non-logged in user.

I usually click all the posts I'm interested in, so maybe I'm being counted as n trolls. Then I log in, but the question is - how does all that "count"?
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  #40  
Old 04-16-2019, 07:34 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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well, there is that little box you had to click on which you may have unclicked which says "Remember Me".

Otherwise, it's old cruddy software and we're cheap.

As to Don's observations: Thanks. I did not want to take the advertising route to make this work although when Katie and I were first hammering it out, it had ads briefly. I remember opening it one morning and this big "DEPRESSED?" hovered over the show. I called up Katie and said I would quit if we kept taking generic ads. She with no hesitation killed the ads and paid for the server herself. She's quite something.

Then we briefly considered ads from vendors and after looking at what appears to be a Korean General's medallions for those that wanted to sell their stuff, I decided that if we were to be objective here, we'd best not take money from the crown. Keep in mind, I brought Cristalica into the country and I was the first to turn on them and say that there were real problems.

We need to keep it that way. I don't know how much longer I will keep this up. I may turn out a book on shop tech, I don't know. I will certainly use all this collective knowledge if I do. I wish Henry would reprint Glassnotes IV and I don't think it will do well as an E Book if he tries that although all the pdf's exist. . It's one of those things you need in your hands. Mine is well worn.
Craftweb is fragile. All those archives, fragile. I need to do something about that.
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  #41  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:58 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is online now
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Oh please god, make a book. I need more glass literature.

I feel like the new gen needs something in between Henry's and Dudley's books. They're both great books, but since there is not an exposure to shop fab these days I don't know that they're terribly accessible for a complete beginner. Also, it should be print, may need pages for color by number.
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  #42  
Old 04-16-2019, 09:37 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I've long suspected that Glassnotes got read sitting on the pot. I don't know how many people will take their laptops into the John. I have Ebooks for my HO Trains and honestly I never use them .

If I did such an undertaking, it would take experienced help identifying what is currently not available. I suspect a lot of Henry's book no longer exists and expect it to become more , not less rare. On Craftweb, we've been attacked on various occasions trying to take down the site. I need to speak to my son about protecting the content. It's a lot of bytes. we have already lost some permanently, sadly including Ms Broderbund and her gang of silica misfits. I had written a great piece in Iambic Pentameter on Laertes advice to Polonius on obtaining a Pilchuck scholarship. Gone... Some good stuff lost.

Seekest thou not Dale's brilliant light...
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  #43  
Old 04-17-2019, 07:28 PM
Don Geiger Don Geiger is offline
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Exclamation Confessions of a former lurker

Dear all and with thanks to Pete's and Larry's patience,

I admit it. I lurked while reading what was posted and deciding if I wanted to join. The process and the unsecured venue for joining scared me. But what I was reading was so wonderfully helpful I risked it and joined.

What you have here is very special. That it was hacked, read on a different thread is just plain offensive. But then again a sad commentary on society rather that what is being done here.

Why what you have here is so special to me requires a two prong answer.

First on a personal level; read I should not be allowed out without a keeper because I am learning what I don't know and still can barely (if then) form a cogent question.

I am truly hard pressed to phrase this. Just being a lurker and reading what others have shared has actually taught he a great deal. Seriously, I actually dream about what I have read and how to apply it and I could retire now if I could afford it. I publicly called myself a lurker and troll in one response.

Depending on how you define the nefarious stereotype of an online troll any noob, including me, qualifies for the title.

One, that anyone would deliberately attack this or any other site for their grins and giggles is more offensive than I can politely describe and I am deeply saddened by what Pete shared here and in another thread.

Second, you are bloody well right I lurked before I joined! How else am I, or anybody else supposed to determine if what you all have here is what will fit my needs? Look at it this way, I and a lot of other people want to know if what we are giving up our personal information for is worth the risk. So yes I was a lurker and am unashamed of that fact.

Guys, I am an older person. Counting this wonderful sight, this is the third community I do more than lurk in.

With all that on the table...

When I thank someone for responding I try to make sure I thank them for sharing their time and wisdom. It was I that asked a question; no matter how ineptly phrased. It was so far Larry and Pete that spared the time to read my question and then share their wisdom and more time by answering my questions.

Based on my life, the gift of their time was beyond price. That they shared their wisdom, as I hope others here shall do is even more precious to people like me trying to learn about glass.

In closing

What was created here is very special. This rant was because the nay sayers have abused you and what you have here seems to a noob to be at risk.

One thing I have learned and know to be a fact is there are a great many noobs looking for answers. Even my inept questions are treated respectfully and answers provided.

What you have here is very special, appreciated, and highly valued. Thank you all, especially Larry and Pete.

Thank you for your time to read this rambling missive and know your shared wisdom is appreciated and valued.

Cheers,

Don
PS: A former lurker and very happy and full of questions noob. :-)
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  #44  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:05 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Now, don't go getting Maudlin on us. It's a chat room for people who never go to the dump.
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