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  #76  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:21 AM
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well, I promised not to be the one to spill the beans. Cristalica has certainly botched this up quickly.

I will be really interested in seeing how the price comes out on the two Czech sources. I'm still convinced that $1.50 has to be the base price. Kuchinke is apparently involved in one of the cullets and that boy loves boron.
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  #77  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
...that boy loves boron.
So, clueless, or unwilling to accept the fact that the electric melt folks don't share in this love?
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  #78  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:11 AM
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My facts are a bit sparse but I'm told that Parriot and Kuchinke are on this project together. Charlie has no experience with the chemistry that I'm aware of and Kuchinke has normally made Borax based stuff. His split from Cristalica was certainly rather public and Cristalica had been making noise about doing extra cullet in the Czech Republic. So speculating, one might conclude that Kuchinke got to one of those sites first. Time will tell but to be told that you can't get cullet until March is flat out unworkable.
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  #79  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durk Valkema View Post
Getting back to this pesky shortage.
We melt Glasma 705 with no effort charging at 2200F fining at 2250F, but there was a lot of buzzing at the IGS symposium in Novy Bor and the GlassTec in Dusseldorf the other week.
We met the new owners of Kugler colours that just shipped 12 ton czech cullet out to the west coast for testing and other glass manufacturers are gearing up to very high quality marbles for remelting. By spring next year there should be a choice of at least three suppliers
***********
So Durk, what are the potential sites in the Czech republic to melt significant volume at? If you can, be specific. Once the shortage started, the conversation all aimed at that spot. Now, I would imagine that scooping up potential sites for manufacturing will become the issue. You suggest three suppliers, I can count Kugler, the new Parriot/Kuchinke group and Cristalica. Is that your count?
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  #80  
Old 10-29-2018, 01:56 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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The Crystalex factory in Novy Bor could do it if they wanted to. I've been to that factory and it is huge and they have an excellent engineering department that is more than capable of making the equipment.
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  #81  
Old 10-29-2018, 02:08 PM
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I continue to think it's fundamentally nuts to import cullet from Europe to the USA.
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  #82  
Old 10-29-2018, 02:44 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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It's fundamentally nuts to import a lot of things but it happens every day.
Look at the items on the grocery shelves and see where they come from. Some things, correction most things make no sense to me anymore. I guess that's one of the pleasures of getting old.
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  #83  
Old 10-29-2018, 03:28 PM
Durk Valkema Durk Valkema is offline
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The Kuchinski Pariot link is fake news.
One of the Pariot related parties are talking about Ba Zn glass, high quality stuff, it even fits the Krystal directive.
Kugler has a chopped rod based glass, who knows if they can supply enough on a monthly basis. But 12 ton is out west being tested so I hear.
Crystalex had the capacity but it folded a decade ago, now its just a trade name with production elsware.
If you know a US company with high quality glass from a continues tank that is willing to run cullet during the weekend, go for it, for now only european companys are considering the option to keep there flow up to parameters even during off production hours.
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  #84  
Old 10-29-2018, 03:54 PM
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I have a certain amount of difficulty changing formulas for weekend runs and expecting that to end well. I see cords at the least and substantial swings in quality too.

The Kuchinke connection was given to me and I admit it seemed strange. I was not impressed with Parriot's knowledge of the difficulties in doing this. He seemed to simply be looking for a formula that would be a 96 and that for me is not a slam dunk. At any rate, the Czech republic seems to be ground zero for the effort. I had a highly reliable source tell me today he had received a photo of cristalica cullet with an enormous lump of unmelted batch in it, or it was a very large stone. That would not surprise me if the furnace was being pushed way past its normal process capacity.
Harvey Littleton at one time expressed to me that this sort of stuff could be a secondary product but not a primary one. At that time, the demand for cullet was not stressed. I think now, the demand in the US is about 11 tons a week and doesn't account for European demand at all. I don't see how that gets met by weekend warriors trying to make a buck. Good quality glass is not that easy and changing out tanks for weekends is a place I see real trouble. Further, if it is a secondary product, the commitment to being able to supply it is not reassuring and that scene plays out again and again.

Durk, how often have you seen furnaces changed out for the weekend making a totally different product and being ready to go again monday morning? Even if it could happen, it has to have a price that makes it attractive to do. I don't see that around one dollar a lb.
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  #85  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:25 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Durk, what happened to all the equipment at the old Crystalex factory? They had an amazing machine for goblet production where the stem and base were pressed and then attached hot to blown tops. They also had an amazing amount of cold working and engraving equipment and engravers/cutters.
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  #86  
Old 10-30-2018, 04:33 AM
Durk Valkema Durk Valkema is offline
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The Cristalex factory still stands, have not been inside it but was told it is all cold and other smaller factories produce under the trade name.
The whole point with continues melting is in the word continues, any change in flow/melt rate spells havoc. Let alone changing chemistry.
You mistake it with the initial Kuchinsky project where they did a cullet run in a fiber glass tank, it took weeks to adjust for the other glass, and back.
The tanks in question melt a barium zinc glass for manual production, like the stuben melter in the good old days. Capable of producing 12 ton over the weekend, I know the owner and he knows what he is doing, also on glass chemistry they know there turf.
So the glass will be pristine quality, no shortcuts.
Like in the last year or two when the Orrefors tank was still melting, producing pristine nuggets, sold through Glasma.
Sadly this factory was totally stripped and is a warehouse for an internet company.
The rumor goes that Chri has increased the cullet to the batch ratio to increase pull, using window glass, so the giant stone is probably refractory.
We melted the stuff last week and it looked blue/green but it worked OK.
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  #87  
Old 10-30-2018, 08:22 AM
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I have to question the Ba/Zn stuff on a rather different level and that's American refractories which at studio level are almost all Alumina. My impression has always been that if Ba reaches anywhere near 3% in that environment that there will be real corrosion. I tend to believe that can occur with the cullet as well. GLASMA can certainly throw stones from its batch if it gets too hot and that's not very hot. Otherwise a beautiful glass.

I'll believe this one when I see it in service but there's a lot of moving parts right now that can really screw up. The operators in the US are not as skilled as a group as they once were.
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  #88  
Old Yesterday, 09:39 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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I had no idea Gabbert were still in business, but just looked up their website and there is one. They list the FHC clear as an option still, and claim they have lots left. I use batch, but curious if others in the midst of the latest Cullet Wars know that might be an option. I'm thinking for schools mainly. We used the 4C when I was at MassArt a long time ago and it was dog shit but it was hot glass nonetheless. And I think I remember using the FHC at Haystack which seemed like a slightly better quality and workable glass. No doubt either are a bit off of 96 LEC. Anyone know if any schools still use a Gabbert cullet? I've only heard of some schools who were using a lot of the Spectrum stuff before it went the way of the Dodo.
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  #89  
Old Yesterday, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bernbaum View Post
I had no idea Gabbert were still in business, but just looked up their website and there is one. They list the FHC clear as an option still, and claim they have lots left. I use batch, but curious if others in the midst of the latest Cullet Wars know that might be an option. I'm thinking for schools mainly. We used the 4C when I was at MassArt a long time ago and it was dog shit but it was hot glass nonetheless. And I think I remember using the FHC at Haystack which seemed like a slightly better quality and workable glass. No doubt either are a bit off of 96 LEC. Anyone know if any schools still use a Gabbert cullet? I've only heard of some schools who were using a lot of the Spectrum stuff before it went the way of the Dodo.
Gabbert might have some clear cullet but I doubt they have any of fhc. You would have to call. The web site hasn't been updated in many years. I pretty much stocked up on the stuff I could use after Fenton shut down. My guess is they have a bunch of the huge chunks from when they would empty the furnaces. The pressed ware and stem ware was the nicest of the lot.
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  #90  
Old Yesterday, 10:51 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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Maybe Im reading this out of context , Pete, but what do you mean by Glasma batch throwing stones?
I used to melt Glasma #5 a 5% lead batch at 1440C a long time ago in clay pots, because well thats what we did.
When I went to using your EC pots, if I remember correctly using Glasma #33 a barium glass,
turned the pot of glass into a Colorado snowstorm of stones if going above 1330C, which was right about where it was difficult to fine out 200 kg of glass overnight. The stones didn't come from the batch, though, the batch dissolved the EC pot above that temperature
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  #91  
Old Today, 07:42 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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You remember well. think it's the basic makeup of american pot refractories that interacts with the barium. Anytime the barium goes above or near 3%, the glass will react with the pot. That's going to make things quite interesting when new cullets hit the market. It won't be as volatile as with batch but it may be ugly to watch.

At that time, I think it was still possible to actually get real mullite which vanished as a resource years ago. Now, it's synthetic. A pot made up of synthetic mullite, 76 percent alumina and 24 percent silica would likely have serious issues with a high barium glass at 1330C.
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