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  #26  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:26 PM
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Spectrum did manage to make hundreds of compatible colors and a blowing cullet that fit all those colors. Yes spectrum with uroboros produced that many compatible colors opals and transparents. That deserves some respect in my book. The formulas they used to calculate Coe obviously gave different numbers then the calculated 96 but no doubt they fit each other.
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  #27  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:28 PM
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Then they sold out and it went across the border. That's the part the leaves me a little chafed.
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  #28  
Old 07-28-2018, 07:25 AM
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Um Foreign.
Sort of like Kugler, Reichenbach, cristalica, Gaffer, Bendheim, GLASMA, Phillips, like them?
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  #29  
Old 07-28-2018, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
Um Foreign.
Sort of like Kugler, Reichenbach, cristalica, Gaffer, Bendheim, GLASMA, Phillips, like them?
Not sure what your trying to say. I was talking about taking an American owned and run business out of the country to reduce labor and energy costs skirt environmental issues all motivated by how much they can line their pockets. Maybe some of those companies you listed fall in that category but not to my knowledge. I want to add I think we all should think globally but certainly try to suport locally.

Gaffer on that list has brought manufacturing to our country and trust me I'm thrilled they are here.
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  #30  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:29 AM
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I get that. My point was how reliant we are on foreign companies already. The reason so many of the cullet companies failed in the longer term was costs over salability at decent prices. . They can't make money selling cullet at current American costs so they farm it out. I genuinely believe that some German companies are subsidized since it's easier to do that than to pay welfare checks. The reality I see down the road is $1.75 cullet. Wages are wages, materials are materials. It's maybe less expensive to make glass from batch, maybe not if you look at fuel and time. It seems to me that inconvenience of dust is icky to many people and I have little sympathy for that since it doesn't have to be that way.

I too am Happy to have Gaffer here. Oz is bummed.
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  #31  
Old 07-29-2018, 12:30 AM
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Do you ever see Gaffer doing batch here directly? I know that they have a batch formula but don't know much about it.
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  #32  
Old 07-29-2018, 07:33 AM
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Gaffer batch has been available in this country for years. I believe you'll find it at Spruce Pine Batch and at East Bay Batch. I'm not positive about East bay though.

Gaffer cullet, no.
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  #33  
Old 08-03-2018, 03:23 PM
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well, it's been three weeks since the Cristalica rep said everything was fine ( Jul 12th). OCR and Spruce Pine are still out of cullet. I'm starting to advise people to melt the snowflake version of SP87 or my formula, or East Bay's in electric kilns but to crank the kilns up to 2250F to do it and that should work. It will increase the element failure levels somewhat but it's not a perfect world.
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2018, 03:20 PM
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From OCR today....

As many of you are aware, Cristalica cullet has most recently been in short supply but is ramping up to meet everyone’s demands. A second furnace has recently been added and we expect to have a much larger inventory available by October/November. We will start by bringing in containers to Seattle and our New Jersey warehouses and ship to your location from these two points. Once the demand settles, we will also be sending Cristalica glass to our other locations such as Granger IA, San Antonio TX, Atlanta GA etc.

Cristalica has made a few changes since we started stocking their cullet. The boron within the cullet has slowly been decreased from 1.75% to 1.5% in May and most recently to 1.25%. This step by step decrease was taken to ensure the quality of the glass. The pallets have also been upgraded and there is a plan to change from boxes to bags by the end of the year.

We appreciate your patience and please know that OCR and Cristalica are doing everything we possibly can do to increase production. We have made multiple visits and also have plans for many more visits to our partners at Cristalica within the next few months to ensure that inventory gets back on track. In the interim, OCR will stock Spruce Pine Batch in 50 lb. and 12.5 lb. bags at our Seattle location within the next week. Please let us know if you need any to ensure that you can keep producing your beautiful art.
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  #35  
Old 08-04-2018, 04:06 PM
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October , November?
Interestingly. I believe the original boron content in the spec sheets I have from when I introduced the cullet to the US as 1.0-1.5%. I'm staring at that spec sheet. So did it get taken up to then be brought down to the problem area it had two years back?

1.25% will continue to cause the effects so many have commented on . In my opinion of course. I'd be most interested in Phil's comments on the activities of Charlie Parriot.
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
October , November?
Interestingly. I believe the original boron content in the spec sheets I have from when I introduced the cullet to the US as 1.0-1.5%. I'm staring at that spec sheet. So did it get taken up to then be brought down to the problem area it had two years back?

1.25% will continue to cause the effects so many have commented on . In my opinion of course. I'd be most interested in Phil's comments on the activities of Charlie Parriot.
That would be something for Phil or Andreea to answer.....
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  #37  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:46 PM
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I think they can read, but from different screenplays ,Mark.
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  #38  
Old 08-17-2018, 07:37 PM
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Social media posts from the last 24hrs.

I'll just leave this here.

Screen Shot 2018-08-17 at 7.32.14 PM.jpg
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  #39  
Old 08-17-2018, 08:33 PM
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Yeah, there is a magical supply just hidden out there waiting to be discovered.... smdh....
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  #40  
Old 08-18-2018, 08:51 AM
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A push is on to get snowflake into Portland. Some people seem to think this is a different formula, It's not. It's a batch of SP87 with far less water in it so it doesn't make large pellets. It is finer and it is dustier. It should be loaded by the pound, not just filling the pot. In wire kilns, it should go far better if the kiln is turned up to 2250F.
Buy some spare elements. An extra pot is not a bad idea either.

I like the part where Greg's desperate person says "My order was cancelled". What is happening is that the schools are ordering in volume and they get to be first in line because they order their color from the same source and that's where the money is.

So, be reassured that come Oct, Nov, somewhere in there, you may get cullet. How important are you?

This may take some rethinking on the part of small wire shops. I have one that has set up two furnaces. One melts one day, one the next while the prior days pot gets worked. Time to learn to build your own kilns. It's not very expensive.
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  #41  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum View Post
Yeah, there is a magical supply just hidden out there waiting to be discovered.... smdh....
********
Actually, I have 350lbs of it in the tractor shed but a persistent bunch of ants has moved into the boxes.
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  #42  
Old 08-22-2018, 05:49 PM
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I just grabbed these pictures off of Facebook.
Cristalica in a Denver ... check out that crystal growth and yellow caking.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4E2C3E87-6E6D-4FE8-920E-D2C54F8C5340.jpg (37.8 KB, 86 views)
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  #43  
Old 08-22-2018, 05:50 PM
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Another......
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  #44  
Old 08-22-2018, 06:28 PM
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Actually, the areas around the elements interest me more. That shows some iron dissolution as a color around those elements. I continue to think Snowflake mix is a better bet in the wire units. Cheaper by far as well.
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  #45  
Old 08-30-2018, 09:36 PM
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This is old news now, I know. Just adding to the record how this situation is affecting people's livelihood in the real world.

https://www.orartswatch.org/glass-sh...-their-breath/
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:50 PM
Mitcheal Veenstra Mitcheal Veenstra is offline
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I find it amusing that they NOW say they are reducing the boron content and that they are 'responsive.'

They weren't responsive much to me this last year when I've been saying it was causing problems with wire furnaces and advising folks to put a vent in or it would carve one on its own. In fact they told me on an open forum on Facebook it couldn't be THEIR product. Must be something I was doing that was causing the issue.

It's nice glass, cuts well, polishes nicely, make cullet based color easily. But it has issues, and it's unavailable. I've had 3 calls from various folks I know across the US tonight asking if I know of anyone with some stashed they could buy.

I'm using up what I have of it. I might buy more if they get their house in order. It's convenient for us wire guys, and the schools love it. But I'm just about committed to melting batch in an electric. I'm heading that way with my color learning anyway, might as well work something out that's more sustainable in the end.

But 'responsive'? meh....
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  #47  
Old 08-31-2018, 07:02 AM
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The original spec sheet said the boron content was 1.25%-1.75%. They now say they are lowering it to 1.25%.....where it originally was?

It will continue to cause problems in my estimation. Borax forms borates in the right environment and borates eat your lunch.
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  #48  
Old 09-11-2018, 01:29 AM
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Spruce cullet is gone. Spectrum shit the bed with their first cullet, then nailed it with their clone cullet, then shut down. Cristalica seemed like a godsend then it tore up furnaces like Spectrum's first version. Now they can't adjust the formula before their reputation is (justly) trashed. All through this drama, there are studios all across the nation (globe?) who are willing to pay for easy-melting cullet that doesn't eat the shit out of refractories. The chemistry isn't rocket science. And the market isn't even that price sensitive!

So what's wrong with this picture? The market is too small. Not too small as far as customers--too small as far as the number of people in the US who have the experience and skills to build a business to turn batch into cullet.

This seems like a great business opportunity, but the people who can solve it aren't terribly motivated. Why? I suspect because they have other business interests, don't need a new business to manage, are winding down, have plenty of wealth and don't need to bother, etc. I can think of a half-dozen guys who could do this, but why would they give a shit if they're already driving Teslas?

So Pete - since I don't think you have a Tesla yet, how about you? Why not tap one of your Chinese contacts to build a factory to make cullet for the US market? You have the relationships, the chemistry, the knowledge to make the continuous-melt furnaces, etc. to make it happen. I bet you wouldn't even need to finance it for long given the high demand. You'd be a hero to US glassblowers *and* probably make enough to buy quite a few Teslas.

Come on--we all want our glass to come out of toothpaste tubes and are willing to pay someone (you??) for the privilege of buying nice, clean cullet...do you wanna do it??
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  #49  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:06 AM
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I'm 68 at this point, not in the best of health and while I don't have a Tesla, I'm quite comfortable and continue to make my own glass from raw materials. I have recommended that small shops try the snowflake version of SP87 which I think the wire folks can do if armed with some spare elements. Right now, Spruce Pine is four weeks back ordered. Henry is putting out advice on how to scrounge for cullet, hardly a sane step into the future.

We could make cullet in the Shanghai shop right now but I'm not at all inclined to push for it. We did talk about it two years back but the duplicity surrounding selling Spectrum availability put the brakes on the venture. The American stance towards anything made in China is problematic despite the fact that Shanghai is currently making the cleanest clear you will see on the market. It's all a nice 96.
Another problem is the west coast ports being dicey for some time which leads to rail head issues and distribution. I would only consider doing it with High Temp distributing. I'm not considering. I do promote SP87 batch there but have no financial interest in it.

Given the number of companies that have tried and failed at making cullet (AKA Cutlets) profitably simply says the margins are too low for the effort. I disagree with the assertion that the market is too small. Current total use as near as I can see is about 11 tons per week. I think that the best approach would be three one ton melters ( not five ton) . It provides quick turn around and versatility if there is a furnace issue. Keep the shortage going until the price becomes right. It could only be expanded from there if the Price was over $1.60. Otherwise it's a money churn. $1.75 would be more appropriate. Then you would see people getting out of bed to do this. It would take about a million dollars to do it right but the money would be recovered in two years.

Cristalica has dug itself a hole and seems to still be digging. I don't quite know what set Kuchinke off so publicly but I suspect it to be money. The problems he cites may be exaggerated but I'm sure he's on the mark about pushing the existing tooling well past its reliable capacity. I expect quality will fast become more of an issue than Boron. He may well have resisted the notion of getting the boron out. Getting the boron out of the product really requires a re-write of the formula and the company may be in the hole with him on the ledger sheets. . They like Oceanside seem to want to embrace Borax with Oceanside going all in on Sys96 for inexplicable reasons. Push come to shove, it doesn't really make sense to be importing cullet from overseas.

So, maybe , until the glass community begs for $1.75 cullet, the community is on its own and in my mind a return to the spirit of discovery that bound the glass community together for over a decade will force a reevaluation of where the basic materials come from. It's not that hard to formulate a batch and even easier to buy SP87. What it takes is time and proper tooling and that's not terrible either. Inconvenience is not something I'm all that receptive to. Inconvenience might just cull the herd and that might not be such a bad thing when I consider how the glass is being used for the most part.

But that's not to say that there is not subterranean motion a foot. There is, but it will come at substantial costs.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:13 PM
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Hi Pete,
I Started blowing back in the late 70's at a little college in Northern Ca. called Shasta Community College. My teacher was Cliff Sowder (don't know if you know him)

..Anyway sorry for rambling, we made our own batch by busting up bottles. Cliff didn't share his formula but I spent an awful lot of time busting bottles and shoving the mix in the furnace. Is this what you mean by "a return to the spirit of discovery that bound the glass community together for over a decade" have us with some chemistry here build and sharing formulas and the results?

I remember we spent a lot of time rebuilding the furnace.

I apologize up front, if this is waaay off base from what you're discussing, I know we're talking cullet - I'm new here :-) Are you saying just use SP87 until we get a reliable good source of cullet?

Last edited by Rich Simmons; 09-11-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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