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  #26  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:46 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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This, if stripped away is the same old conversation about "Art, Vs Craft". It's been going on for time immemorial. It's important so it can exclude people.

If you looked at the glass houses in "The glass gaffers of New Jersey "

( Adelle Pepper), you won't find any of that work extolled as art. It was instead a remarkable view into the migratory moves of glasshouse as they struggled with being allowed to do what they did given the pressure from the English Govt.

From my view, some incredible from the heart glass made by people who loved the material. Cap Wistar was probably the only one who had a longer term vision than " "Make what you Love".

Go do it. Not since "the Portland Vase" has the dichotomy been so clear.
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  #27  
Old 01-18-2019, 06:42 PM
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Greg Vriethoff Greg Vriethoff is offline
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I'm "deleting" my post here because it was not helpful, and/or kind.

Apologies for being so critical.
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Last edited by Greg Vriethoff; 01-19-2019 at 02:34 PM. Reason: argumentative/negative
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:41 PM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Since they can now make a face that does not exist in real life ,by using AI to model the face.
I donít know what to make of this? The skill of the artist no longer count for good art.
Franklin
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  #29  
Old 01-20-2019, 02:04 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Oh, I don't know . Picasso could make faces that didn't exist in real life. He seemed to get by.
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:58 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin Sankar View Post
Since they can now make a face that does not exist in real life ,by using AI to model the face.
I donít know what to make of this? The skill of the artist no longer count for good art.
Franklin
I guess its all in your point of view. I must say though that I think thats untrue. In my opinion an artist is first a designer, creator, and visionary. Technique has always been cheap.
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  #31  
Old 01-22-2019, 09:42 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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I agree design comes first but if you canít Make the object into a tangible piece
are you saying itís ok to get someone to make it for you.? I always thought that if you canít make it then crapaud smoke you pipe.
Franklin
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  #32  
Old 01-22-2019, 09:54 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I actually think technique is really expensive. Franklin simply brings up the same old raging argument.

I love the term that artists use when they lack certain skills.

"Would you facilitate my project?"
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  #33  
Old 01-22-2019, 10:27 AM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
I actually think technique is really expensive. Franklin simply brings up the same old raging argument.

I love the term that artists use when they lack certain skills.

"Would you facilitate my project?"
I've on occasion had to have others assist me in the construction of some rather large public art projects. Handling heavy items and having to invest 1000's of $ on a piece of equipment that will only be used for one project was not something I could handle so I had "facilitators".
Dale, Harvey, Nick and many others owed a lot to others who gave them the where with all to accomplish what they did. In addition, I know of very few sculptors who have made their own castings and large scale constructions.
You are right though, technique is not always cheap.
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  #34  
Old 01-22-2019, 11:02 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I totally appreciate the things you refer to . That being said, the initial impact of the '62 studio movement was a simple notion thought to be a major breakthrough at the time:

The actual artist could design and execute a piece without having to turn it over to someone else to make.

That was a gut revolutionary step in 1962. Now I will freely grant you that it didn't take long before an assistant was needed. That made concepts easier to carry out. Then it evolved into teams which in fact was where the whole Toledo revolution was attempting to get away from. Harvey Leafgreen was actually critical to the success of the conference. The conference had not thought to consider that the West Virginia Glasshouses could actually be helpful in getting the ball rolling and the movement had to endure JM marbles for quite a while when W.Va could have had them off in the right direction immediately. But as Fritz said "Money changed Everything".

These days, facilitation has evolved to where the artist doesn't touch the piece at all. That I can do without. I still like to work alone. Shanghai was interesting for me in that I had a factory with forty workers doing what I wanted. I was way more basic. I wanted to make glass bodies that I thought people would buy, as in colored glass. I don't think that remained a focus very long since clear is easier and we were much focused on lighting. I certainly haven't been asked to do any design work in some time.
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