CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk  

Go Back   CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk > Hot Glass > General Hot Glass Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-03-2018, 12:34 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,416
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Here's the EU bureaucracy laid on Murano

As Scott says, "Like buying indulgences from the Pope"

https://www.ecomundo.eu/en/blog/reac...risation-costs

For every exception, expect to spend 75K . wait two year for approval which is far from guaranteed. Those studios could never afford this. It's worse than paying off UL.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-03-2018, 02:45 PM
Mark Rosenbaum's Avatar
Mark Rosenbaum Mark Rosenbaum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 973
Mark Rosenbaum is on a distinguished road
So, are we looking at the beginning of the end of the small studio in Europe, and in turn the bellwether for here?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-03-2018, 03:20 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,416
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Murano has lost studios every year for some time. If you recall, there was a time when the Chinese was trying to buy up studios and it became a social blue collar issue and pretty much died. Now? I don't see how places like Effetre can survive given the onerous costs of obtaining an exemption if it costs about 75K per exemption with no guarantee of success.

even if the exemptions were acquired, the filtration equipment that would still be rquired takes up a lot of space. I think Bullseye lost four furnaces to the combo of baghouses and torit filter sites alone. You've been there, these studios are not sprawling. I think the irony would be if Effetre wanted to keep making these colors, they would have to leave the EU to do it. I think they would have to go to Asia. Socially and culturally, it's hard to see that happening. The notion of going to color rods and a 96 clear base just doesn't feel particularly Italian .

I think Scott put it best. It's like buying indulgences from the Pope.

As to an American bellweather, not many shops make their own glass, clear or colored. If anything threatens american studios it's that there are too many of them for the market to support. I don't see the government crushing them through regulation. Studios keep on giving lessons to make ends meet. That is easy to see as training your competition. I've seen it like the song "Our Town" by Iris Demint for a while. But Boro is ascendant.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-03-2018, 03:58 PM
Mark Rosenbaum's Avatar
Mark Rosenbaum Mark Rosenbaum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 973
Mark Rosenbaum is on a distinguished road
Why do I get the feeling that we are just one government regulation from the abyss? All it takes is one crazy appointee in a high government position... stranger things have happened :O .... I guess that the bigger problem for color would be the availability of the raw materials....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:56 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Washington
Posts: 498
Art Freas is on a distinguished road
Most of the shops I was in at GAS had some form of filtration over their furnaces, all the hood air went through them. Don't know what level of filtration was going on though. More than I have seen in US hot shops. Was not at Effetre though.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:53 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 4,355
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
Art, those hoods just grab hot air and it just flows outside. Hi
__________________
<eben epoiese>
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:41 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,416
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
The installation of torit filtration is on the ground, outside with all air flowing from a baghouse inside. It takes up a footprint. It seems to me that a torit unit can handle two furnaces and a good deal of care needs to be taken to keep it from getting too hot which causes it to fail. They are expensive. A hood just directs the gasses outside. Kind of like Bullseye used to do. It dumps all the toxins in the neighborhood. Arsenic is particularly easy to measure outside and it lingers.

https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/indu...ors/cartridge/
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:45 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,416
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rosenbaum View Post
Why do I get the feeling that we are just one government regulation from the abyss? All it takes is one crazy appointee in a high government position... stranger things have happened :O .... I guess that the bigger problem for color would be the availability of the raw materials....
****
Well the toxicity issues with the Arsenic must have been substantial. It's not like they didn't know the neighborhoods were getting toxed up. Anyone who has ever melted a lead arsenate can tell you how awful it is.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:27 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Washington
Posts: 498
Art Freas is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
Art, those hoods just grab hot air and it just flows outside. Hi
The ones I saw had filters in them, with dump ports below. The air from the hoods went in to a box that looked like a filter unit, then out the top. I think I have a picture of a couple I will post tonight.
Art
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-06-2018, 10:20 AM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brattleboro, VT
Posts: 574
Josh Bernbaum is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Freas View Post
Most of the shops I was in at GAS had some form of filtration over their furnaces, all the hood air went through them. Don't know what level of filtration was going on though. More than I have seen in US hot shops. Was not at Effetre though.
Yeah, all the shops seemed to have these giant things. Roberto Beltrami who we were staying with, of Wave Glass Murano, was telling us that these units had (and pardon my lack of remembering the details) electrified plates toward the top, to which calcium in there would stick after mixing with the exhaust gasses coming out of the furnaces. So the heavy metals etc. were supposed to stick to the calcium (carbonate I suppose?) on those plates at the top. Problem was, and is, according to Roberto, that many shops didn't keep the units running consistently, leading to condensation build up on the calcium and rendering the system ineffective. Sounded like more user-input and attention are needed for these systems than they are typically getting. Also sounded like whatever inspectors that come around just want to see these giant things in place, and aren't checking if the systems are working properly or not. That was the gist I got, but sorry I don't remember more details from that conversation. These units were just massive pieces of equipment.
__________________
www.jmbglass.com
instagram.com/joshbernbaum_glass
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-06-2018, 10:43 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,416
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
keep in mind that it's a rare shop on Murano that only melts cullet and the exact opposite is true in the USA. You have to maintain the tooling and that type tooling is perhaps effective with clear glasses. Colored? Not so much.

The releases of micrograms of lead per hour based in temperature increases were studied and reported out by Durk Valkema years ago. It would be most interesting to see air quality studies done around the island, especially at night.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-06-2018, 12:58 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brattleboro, VT
Posts: 574
Josh Bernbaum is on a distinguished road
Roberto was saying, when I asked, that islanders who were tested had higher levels of Cd. He didn't mention other chemicals but I wouldn't be surprised if Pb or whatever else was high as well. Incidentally, some shops including his were re-melting chunks of colored glasses in their color pots. I didn't get to ask where Roberto's supply was but saw a bunch of that at Effetre which seemed to be for those purposes. No doubt that would not work for some colors which have to be worked right after batching and melting. He still mixes a few color batches there besides using the pre melted chunks, and has a 10 (yes 10!) pot color furnace which seems to be unusual even for Murano. It ain't easy to reach the back ones but long pipes help I suppose..
__________________
www.jmbglass.com
instagram.com/joshbernbaum_glass
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-06-2018, 01:17 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
?
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,627
Jordan Kube is on a distinguished road
They do remelt colored cullet.
__________________
WWUD? Think for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-06-2018, 01:37 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,416
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I certainly remelt colored cullet but it usually changes the color somewhat if it is either colloidal or crystalline in nature. I don't know of any glasses that look better on second melts but the economics of time make sense. Sometimes copper rubies are more transparent on second melts.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-06-2018, 07:47 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Washington
Posts: 498
Art Freas is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bernbaum View Post
Yeah, all the shops seemed to have these giant things. Roberto Beltrami who we were staying with, of Wave Glass Murano, was telling us that these units had (and pardon my lack of remembering the details) electrified plates toward the top, to which calcium in there would stick after mixing with the exhaust gasses coming out of the furnaces. So the heavy metals etc. were supposed to stick to the calcium (carbonate I suppose?) on those plates at the top. Problem was, and is, according to Roberto, that many shops didn't keep the units running consistently, leading to condensation build up on the calcium and rendering the system ineffective. Sounded like more user-input and attention are needed for these systems than they are typically getting. Also sounded like whatever inspectors that come around just want to see these giant things in place, and aren't checking if the systems are working properly or not. That was the gist I got, but sorry I don't remember more details from that conversation. These units were just massive pieces of equipment.
Would be interested to know how long the filters have been in place. Would also be interesting to know if the Cd was old contamination or new.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-07-2018, 06:20 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hills of Tennessee
Posts: 1,362
Tom Fuhrman is on a distinguished road
It would be interesting to know what they are doing in the Czech Republic. I know that many years ago when I was there Crystalex in Novy Bor was melting as many as 24 colors at a time. each in 250KG pots. They are a big company and may have the $ and leverage to find a way around it.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 AM.


All published comments within these message boards are the opinions of its contributor and does not represent
the opinion(s) of the owner(s) of this website. Please see the Terms of Use file for more details.

Books to Help Artists Avoid Online Scams: Top 10 Email Scams | Social Media Scams

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CraftWEB.com. Opportunity Network. 2008. All Rights Reserved.