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  #26  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:11 AM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Michael, don't forget to check with others that are hobbyists. With all due respect to Pete, he has never operated as a hobbyist, "weekend warrior" sort of glass operation. I have done both but never felt it necessary to go as large as he and others have. Some things do not have to be so large if you are using them on a off again, on again basis. Just my $.02 worth.
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:30 AM
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my reply to that is multi- fold. The majority of your cost in doing this comes when you're melting glass, not maintaining a fixed temperature such as idle or daily working temp. If you use a small pot ( 40 lbs), it will go fast and the last 1.5 inches will not really be usable as you're scraping the floor. It takes a good deal of time to refill and fine out that amount of glass. It is always made easier if you tool up for what you are making and I would heartily agree with that notion.

I do sell a lot of pots to both hobby people and people who make their livings doing this. The professionals usually choose the 24 inch and we sell more of them than anything. Second choice is the 14.5 inch pot . Third is the 11.5 inch pot holding 38lbs. The boro guys usually order straight wall pots with odd shapes like 12x16 inch or the 7 inch pot which holds about 13 lbs.

My own furnace these days? Two 7 inch pots and a 14.5 inch pot. Time there was when I had 2 24 inch pots and 3 14.5 inch pots. Those days are gone. I'm no longer operating as a professional studio really. I would think I'm an extremely spoiled hobbyist. For the color classes we ran 14 pots all at once.

Certainly something I've ignored here is the invested pot issue. I don't know of a commercial electric unit that invests the pot and the reality is that turning it on and off freestanding is far more likely to invite pot failure. Getting a failure with all those elements exposed is an expensive and also dangerous proposal since hot glass conducts electricity. That would be an advantage of the dragon Kiln certainly but then you're back to gas. I love my little gas furnace. The sound of a glassworks running with combustion is irreplaceable. I really hate it when studios are turned off. Something's just not right.
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:51 AM
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Mark Rosenbaum Mark Rosenbaum is offline
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"I don't know of a commercial electric unit that invests the pot and the reality is that turning it on and off freestanding is far more likely to invite pot failure."

Not that I use their furnaces anymore, but Denver has an invested pot....
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:51 PM
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whenever I think of those, I recall "The Corn Popper" from "Arrested development".
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2018, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
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whenever I think of those, I recall "The Corn Popper" from "Arrested development".
They served their purpose
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  #31  
Old 06-21-2018, 06:44 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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They served their purpose
How many hundred have they made? I know it was a lot. Probably thousands by this time. They were the onlyelectric "show"in town when they started many years ago. They got a lot of people started. plug it in and go. That's the younger generation.
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  #32  
Old 06-21-2018, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
How many hundred have they made? I know it was a lot. Probably thousands by this time. They were the onlyelectric "show"in town when they started many years ago. They got a lot of people started. plug it in and go. That's the younger generation.
***
I could not disagree.
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  #33  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:27 PM
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How many hundred have they made? I know it was a lot. Probably thousands by this time. They were the onlyelectric "show"in town when they started many years ago. They got a lot of people started. plug it in and go. That's the younger generation.
I bought the first generation of the furnace from their founder, Simon, about 35 years ago. I built my business around it and I'm still using two annealers from then. I don't think that I'm the "younger generation", but thanks for the smile.
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  #34  
Old 06-22-2018, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
whenever I think of those, I recall "The Corn Popper" from "Arrested development".
That would be "The Cornballer."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0iZ1LgJiig
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  #35  
Old 06-22-2018, 07:44 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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It was certainly before its time and indeed did put a lot of people into the biz. The price was right.

With the door open, kinda hot though.
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  #36  
Old 06-22-2018, 10:22 AM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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It would be interesting to know how many people have either owned some of their equipment or have worked out of it. Anyone want to chime in? I always felt they played a much better role in the development of some studio glass than Electroglass ever did.
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  #37  
Old 06-22-2018, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
It would be interesting to know how many people have either owned some of their equipment or have worked out of it. Anyone want to chime in? I always felt they played a much better role in the development of some studio glass than Electroglass ever did.
As I stated above, I entered the wholesale business on the back of my Denver equipment. First the "starter" set-up of the small furnace with the GH attached to the side plus two blue box lehrs. I stepped up to the larger furnace a few years later and added another lehr. I still use two of the lehrs, and the 250# furnace is looming in the corner of my studio watching and waiting
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  #38  
Old 06-22-2018, 12:49 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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The only beef I have with Denver furnaces are their guillitine up and down doors
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  #39  
Old 06-22-2018, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
It would be interesting to know how many people have either owned some of their equipment or have worked out of it. Anyone want to chime in? I always felt they played a much better role in the development of some studio glass than Electroglass ever did.
********
I have long thought the business approach from Electroglass to be gross. The crucible was oval for a reason. You could not replace it yourself without buying it from Electroglass which had LaClede making them exclusively. What cost Electroglass $350 dollars, they resold to you for over two thousand dollars. Then, they bailed on LaClede and went to Engineered and struck the same deal. EC gave them the exclusive and the cost was similar.
Then Electroglass would put out recommendations from an Artist who of course turned out to be the wife of the owner.

Deception all around. No wonder there was no customer loyalty. Holly was fairly clear about her business model and understood that she built a VW. The only time I saw unfortunate issues was when she tried throwing Mark Jesson from Duralite under the bus when her elements failed prematurely. They failed because of poor engineering. You got what you paid for.

To remember the days when an 18 inch pot from Ipsen cost $22.00. Recommended by Michael Neurot. A crystalite liner brick was $2.20 each.

By gone days
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  #40  
Old 06-23-2018, 10:09 AM
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I still have one of denvers early gas fired units it's great for a color melter and doubles as a small glory.

If you call Denver Holly answers the phone. They have kept that ship a float a really long time and have my respect. I really like the annealers they build and the furnaces have sliding doors with a believe pneumatics now as standard issue. I built a small hybrid furnace for melting color cullet and use Denver elements. I easily get over a year of continuous use out of it without a problem. If you know the limits of the materials your working with and stay within those parameters you should never have any reason to complain.

Electro glass wasn't all bad. I understood the logic was sound but didn't care for the engineering. Moving far away from those spiral sic elements I build my first sic melter. Solid elements passing through the furnace still allowed hot swapping. Running two banks of elements allowed the furnace to limp and not crash if a element died. A door at the rear of the furnace to replace the free standing pot.

We all do our part to move forward the engineering and building of the equipment we use as time moves on. I'm working to build my first moly furnace this summer. I'll know this build will rely on Steve Staddleman's original design and those that worked to improve it. In so many ways we have the ones that came before us to thank but in reality we all play our part.
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  #41  
Old 06-24-2018, 02:54 PM
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Early GAS melters were all reasonably underinsulated and the earliest used crystalite brick with the first American uses of pots showing up in ads with early promos from Michael Nourot. The Labino Day tank with the burner stuck in the crown was the standard for a number of years. It's claim to fame was it actually got hot and didn't seem to burn any buildings down but it was altered to include the side fire, above glass line really pioneered by Sybren Valkema in Amsterdam. By 1980, the freestanding crucible was firmly in the drivers seat. Below pot has proved to be a fair way to shorten pot life in general. I didn't recall Denver ever making a gas unit but I never paid much attention to them honestly, The work of Charlie Correll and John Chiles was really a step above in the early years but both toyed with bottom fire. It strikes me that most gas now is side fired, above glass line, flued and recuperated. As recently as 1982, GAS conferences were told that recuperation was a waste of time by engineers. That was certainly wrong.
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  #42  
Old 06-29-2018, 06:46 AM
Michael Bryan Michael Bryan is offline
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Thanks again to all of those who have made suggestions. As soon as Iím up and running Iíll post the final outcome.
Mike
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