High temp metal pipe for gloryhole.

[Jesse Bogenrief]

Looking for any help. I need a 3/4 pipe for my polite on my gloryhole. The stainless steel I have been getting can't handle the heat and crumbles. It need to be threaded on one side and at least 8" long 3/4 pipe that's 1.05 inches pipe. Thank you

[Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig]

This is a question with not enough information given. I dont have a clue what a polite is- but I do know its not a material issue , can you explain whats going on?

[Chris Lowry]

Pilot light?

[Charles Friedman]

Your pilot light is in the wrong spot.

[Jesse Bogenrief]

Sorry, yes pilot light. I have been trying to find Stainless steel T309 at least if not something like titanium.

[Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig]

You could just do away with it. A glory hole does not need a pilot light, its for like boilers and water heaters that cycle on and off to maintain a set temperature. Like I said its not a material issue- its a design flaw. Its not doing anything, and if it was its in the wrong place as Charles says.
It doesn't work as a safety valve either, glory holes are not prone to flame outs- if there was one the gas would reignite immediately because of the temperature in the hole, and the sensor would be way too slow to shut off the gas for the same reason.
If you wanted a safety shut down then it should be an optical flame sensor like you might have on as gas glass furnace.

[Eric Trulson]

Yeah, seconding what others have said, this is a design issue more than a material selection issue.

It's a good rule of thumb to just not have bare metal protruding into the hot interior of your gloryhole at all. Rapid oxidation is a hell of a drug, and even the high-temperature grades of stainless (309/310) won't like it for extended periods. Metals that would survive that environment happily are more like inconel and tungsten, and they're both expensive, hard to source, and troublesome to work. (although here's some inconel tube on mcmaster if you're a masochist)

Regular stainless pipe should survive much better as long as it's set an inch or two back into the wall (so assuming you have a brick interior on your GH, I'd have the tip of the metal pipe just poking an inch or less into the back side of the brick). Or as Michael says, unless you need the pilot light to adhere to code/insurance regs, you can ditch it entirely and just manually light the hole.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig

You could just do away with it. A glory hole does not need a pilot light, its for like boilers and water heaters that cycle on and off to maintain a set temperature. Like I said its not a material issue- its a design flaw. Its not doing anything, and if it was its in the wrong place as Charles says.
It doesn't work as a safety valve either, glory holes are not prone to flame outs- if there was one the gas would reignite immediately because of the temperature in the hole, and the sensor would be way too slow to shut off the gas for the same reason.
If you wanted a safety shut down then it should be an optical flame sensor like you might have on as gas glass furnace.

*****
You may have a tough time getting that past many code inspectors. It falls into this notion of "Someone is always there". They actually go eat lunch among other things. I certainly agree that a gloryhole shutting off will spontaneously reignite. I use a variation of that premise on my furnace safety set up. The power will have to be out for at least 1/2 hour before the burner won't spontaneously reignite. Getting a gibberson style burner very far into the gloryhole is a great way to see how short the life on one of Gib's heads can be. It all depends on what you authority having jurisdiction says. I have no building code here at all.

[Jesse Bogenrief]

I must have pilot light and uv eye on all equipment for insurance and fire code. I'm in a building with over 100 other artists and non-profits organizations in downtown Des Moines Iowa.

[Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig]

Well yes I can understand the code thing- we used to have East Germany in Europe, Im just looking at it from a technical point.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig

Well yes I can understand the code thing- we used to have East Germany in Europe, Im just looking at it from a technical point.

****
At the beginning of the UBC and the UFC is a statement that this code may be altered at the discretion of the AHJ ( Auth having jurisdiction). It simply means if you can make a good case for a variance, the AHJ can accept it. They never do. The liability is pretty major despite the fact that we would all agree on how dumb it was.

I never did it but I can't recall anyone ever making a good argument for the variance. Even the gloryhole has strong arguments. If you've just lit it, it is not going to relight if it goes out, but it can pump gas, and will without supervision. I don't leave the area around my gloryhole until I know it's self sustaining. It's also a small shop.

[Art Freas]

Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan

****
At the beginning of the UBC and the UFC is a statement that this code may be altered at the discretion of the AHJ ( Auth having jurisdiction). It simply means if you can make a good case for a variance, the AHJ can accept it. They never do. The liability is pretty major despite the fact that we would all agree on how dumb it was.

I never did it but I can't recall anyone ever making a good argument for the variance. Even the gloryhole has strong arguments. If you've just lit it, it is not going to relight if it goes out, but it can pump gas, and will without supervision. I don't leave the area around my gloryhole until I know it's self sustaining. It's also a small shop.

This is why I am pretty strict about having someone in the room at startup. Also I know if I replaced my glory holes I would not be able to use my current set up.

[Art Freas]

Also if you rent there is no way you can go without modern controls.

[Pete VanderLaan]

Actually Art, they're everywhere. It's more of a matter where you choose to set up shop.

[Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig]

So this pipe goes to the front of your burner somehow and the tip is in the actual flame flow? And inside is the pilot sensor? What does it look like , how big is it and how far into the pipe does it sit? It is not being damaged at all? How long do you have to hold the start button when you light the burner? Does it ignite with a spark inside the pipe?
Can you take a picture that shows the arrangement?

[Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig]

Art, pilot light controllers Im guessing is 1920’s technique.
Anyway, you cant have unprotected metal in the glory, its not so much the temperature, its the atmosphere- both oxidation and reduction
I have no experience with inconel- but apparently is very resistant to atmosphere but has a service temp of 1200C. 2192f - thats not a happy glory hole
So if we have to go redneck fix with this design, we either have to protect the ss pipe or replace it
You guys think a thermo couple tube would take the thermo shock here?

[Eben Horton]

Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig

So this pipe goes to the front of your burner somehow and the tip is in the actual flame flow? And inside is the pilot sensor? What does it look like , how big is it and how far into the pipe does it sit? It is not being damaged at all? How long do you have to hold the start button when you light the burner? Does it ignite with a spark inside the pipe?
Can you take a picture that shows the arrangement?

Look at the website for The Ward power burner.

[Ron Mynatt]

I would try inconel pipe, I put in inconel angle my furnace door and it works great.No scaling or deterioration of the metal.

[Mark Rendulic]

Ever consider a ceramic tube like a thermocouple sleeve? That would take the heat better than any steel would.

[Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig]

Well Jesse seems not to be interested in fixing his problems, and Mark didnt read my post nor answered my question

[Pete VanderLaan]

Next they'll gossip about you on Reddit.

[Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig]

Just bothers me a bit when newbies poke thier heads in and want instant gratifikation
Or suggest thinga without reading the threads
Careful, my covid 19 isolation is making me mean

[Pete VanderLaan]

Originally Posted by Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig

Well Jesse seems not to be interested in fixing his problems, and Mark didnt read my post nor answered my question

****
A number of years back, there was this big fire in Seattle as I recall in one of those buildings where everything interconnected illegally. I'm sure someone could help me remember what that was. Then we had the guy who lit a full city block on fire trying to do blacksmith work after he was inspired by Forged in Fire.

I would have to agree that Code is based in Tragedy, not foresight.

[Rich Samuel]

I don't recall that fire here, though it wouldn't surprise me if we had more than a few caused by ignorance. Are you thinking of the Ghost Ship fire in Oakland??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_...20of%20Oakland.

[Pete VanderLaan]

That sounds like it. I suppose I think of Seattle because of the rather remarkable building that the fish market is in. Pike Place? It would go up like a torch.