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Old 05-01-2018, 10:05 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Output valve on oxygen concentrator

Does an oxygen concentrator or generator have a built in one way valve on the output ?
When you parallel two units did you add a 1w valve sorry don’t have a diagram.
Franklin

Last edited by Franklin Sankar; 05-01-2018 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:15 AM
Lawrence Duckworth Lawrence Duckworth is offline
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Franklin I cant help with your question.. but Iím curious, are you using a concentrator as a air supply?
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:04 AM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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No itís for oxygen on a torch. Oxygen is so expensive and to get the empty cylinder to the refill station is another pain. I used to transport it sideways until Pete,s warning about vertical storage and transport.
I got the answer from Tom.
I will put in an external 1 w valve so that way if the unit does not have one I will be protected.
Thanks
Franklin
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Old 05-02-2018, 01:25 PM
Lawrence Duckworth Lawrence Duckworth is offline
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Oops, sorry about that Franklin, thatís what I meant, an oxygen supply for your lampworking torch.
I too have to go get my tank filled and a full one doesnít seem to last very long either, about a week. Iív Read where the oxygen concentrator is an option but doesnít alway provide enough air. Are you using multiple units to provide the volume and preasure demand?

Also, what did Tom say about the valve?

Thanks

Btw, Iím trying to make marbles about 1-1/2Ē to 1-3/4Ē dia.
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:50 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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you can now buy concentrators that are 15LPM and larger, You can gang these together to get enough oxygen to power most torches. You can also use these to fill a tank and then use compressed air to pressurize it. I have friend that are doing all sorts of crazy stuff with concentrators. You can power a Bethlehem Alpha with some this size and achieve the size marbles you mentioned. I use 2 5LPM concentrators on my Alpha and can make 1"-1.5" beads/marbles in soft glass on a regular basis.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:22 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Without giving up sources, Go looking for people that rebuild and sell concentrators. They really are out there.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:13 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
Without giving up sources, Go looking for people that rebuild and sell concentrators. They really are out there.
I got my 3 from Craigslist for about $50 ea. and one from a rebuilder in S.C.

I was to a friends studio last week, a beadmaker, hobbyist and she had 3 15 lpm's, 2 10lpm's and a couple of 5lpm's. and she had about 1000+ lbs. of rod in 104, 96 and 90. he is just retiring from her day job. It's insane what some of these little old lady beadmakers have accumulated. Oh, I didn't mention all the molds and hand tools. Many of the rods are in the $40-50/lb. class, made in VA.
None of this stuff was even available 50 years ago. The world has changed and so has the glass business. Colored boro was almost no existent 40 years ago. Now it's what a lot of people base their business on.
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:33 PM
Charles Friedman Charles Friedman is offline
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Franklin Can't you use the control valve that is built into the unit, as a off/on?

Run a tube from the O2 out-put port from both units, use a Y connector with a Valve in the out-put side, that goes to the troch.
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Old 05-03-2018, 05:28 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence Duckworth View Post
Oops, sorry about that Franklin, that’s what I meant, an oxygen supply for your lampworking torch.
I too have to go get my tank filled and a full one doesn’t seem to last very long either, about a week. I’v Read where the oxygen concentrator is an option but doesn’t alway provide enough air. Are you using multiple units to provide the volume and preasure demand?

Also, what did Tom say about the valve?

Thanks

Btw, I’m trying to make marbles about 1-1/2” to 1-3/4” dia.
Stay with compressed tanks or better yet transition to a liquid dewer which is about 1/4 of the cost of tanks. With medical concentrators you will always be operating somewhat oxygen starved which is not good if your working with boro color.

High Volume Oxygen and Oxygen Frog both make systems based on oil less compressors, holding tanks, and banked controllers running multiple sets of medical concentrators but the initial cost is VERY high ($10K+) and you are still dependent on medical concentrators. I ran the numbers for all of the options and renting a liquid dewer is by far the cheapest and also will give you the highest purity.

I make relatively large boro spheres (3"+) and sculptures and I work 6-7 days a week. Rental on my dewer is $25/month and it costs $190/fill delivered. It lasts 7-8 weeks between fills. When I was making 2" spheres mostly and running out of T size compressed tanks they were costing $27/fill each delivered and I was blowing through at least 5/week. I regularly run across used dewers which you can buy and bring to your supplier on a trailer to be filled yourself which will save you $25/month but I think its well worth the cost of rent to have your supplier to be responsible for the maintenance on the dewer and to handle transportation.

Last edited by Larry Cazes; 05-03-2018 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 05-03-2018, 05:39 PM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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Nice to hear from you Charles. Yes I am presently using a Y connected with two 5 lpm concentrator.
Thanks
Franklin
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Old 05-03-2018, 05:54 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin Sankar View Post
No itís for oxygen on a torch. Oxygen is so expensive and to get the empty cylinder to the refill station is another pain. I used to transport it sideways until Pete,s warning about vertical storage and transport.
I got the answer from Tom.
I will put in an external 1 w valve so that way if the unit does not have one I will be protected.
Thanks
Franklin
Why would you be concerned about the orientation of a compressed tank of oxygen?
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:39 PM
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I thought it was not safe to carry it in a horizontal position.
Franklin
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:42 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Larry: Franklin does not have easy access to many of the things we take for granted. Trinidad doesn't even have hardly any medical concentrators and liquid there is almost unknown and everything is very expensive. We are very fortunate here in the US to be able to pursue our art with many items not available elsewhere.
When I was there working on a project we couldn't even find 60/40 solder. Only solder available was large sticks used for repairing radiators and it was very low quality. The last time I checked they did not even have Paypal access in the country.
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:45 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin Sankar View Post
I thought it was not safe to carry it in a horizontal position.
Franklin
That would be a concern if there was liquid in the tank. Not the case with Compressed tanks of oxygen like you use. Perfectly safe in ANY orientation. Just be sure to always keep the cap on that covers the valve when your handling them and keep them tied down for transport.

Last edited by Larry Cazes; 05-03-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:45 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin Sankar View Post
I thought it was not safe to carry it in a horizontal position.
Franklin
Franklin: you're correct. National standards here dictate that O2 tanks be carried in an upright position and in an open truck and secured.
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:47 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
Larry: Franklin does not have easy access to many of the things we take for granted. Trinidad doesn't even have hardly any medical concentrators and liquid there is almost unknown and everything is very expensive. We are very fortunate here in the US to be able to pursue our art with many items not available elsewhere.
When I was there working on a project we couldn't even find 60/40 solder. Only solder available was large sticks used for repairing radiators and it was very low quality. The last time I checked they did not even have Paypal access in the country.
Yes. I know the situation there. Maybe he should open a gas supply company in Trinidad Was suggesting liquid for Larry's use.

Last edited by Larry Cazes; 05-03-2018 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:50 PM
Larry Cazes Larry Cazes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
Franklin: you're correct. National standards here dictate that O2 tanks be carried in an upright position and in an open truck and secured.
My supplier keeps them horizontal at times but of course chained down. Thats a silly regulation.
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Old 05-03-2018, 07:11 PM
Lawrence Duckworth Lawrence Duckworth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
Without giving up sources, Go looking for people that rebuild and sell concentrators. They really are out there.
Youíre right, Iím seeing a ton of them on eBay n Craigslist...affordable too.

Larry I have no experience with a dewer. Iíll look into that tomorrow..Iím not sure our supplier even handles liquid oxygen.

Iím in n.e Georgia,...wasnít born here but got here as soon as I could.
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:42 AM
Lawrence Duckworth Lawrence Duckworth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fuhrman View Post
I use 2 5LPM concentrators on my Alpha and can make 1"-1.5" beads/marbles in soft glass on a regular basis.

When you say ďsoftĒ Glass, are you referring to furnace glass? Iíve seen small pieces of cane slumped and made into necklaces. (not sure how the hoop is added though)

1-1/2Ē marble made on a torch with old furnace cane? Might be cool. Can it be done or is it to sloppy?
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence Duckworth View Post
When you say ďsoftĒ Glass, are you referring to furnace glass? Iíve seen small pieces of cane slumped and made into necklaces. (not sure how the hoop is added though)

1-1/2Ē marble made on a torch with old furnace cane? Might be cool. Can it be done or is it to sloppy?
Soft glass is usually a reference to soda lime glasses and hard glass being borosilicate. There are what seems to be thousands of colors in the 104 range and it is the common go to for bead makers. This glass can be worked with just propane but oxy propane is much easier. 96 our common go to furnace glass can be pulled into cane and lampworked. Some of these glasses are easier to work then others.

If you find a homefill medical unit you can pair that with a 5lpm concentrator and fill your large oxygen cylinders to 2,000 psi in about 24 hours. I have several of these units but still keep liquid oxygen when I have a lot of work to do. Your average liquid oxygen tank holds about 18 high pressure cylinders the tall ones my company calls k tanks. Liquid oxygen is constantly evaporating building has pressure and venting out. Use it or lose it they last 3-4 weeks. A liquid tank costs me about $100 to fill and a dollar a day rental. Your welding supplier should be able to bring one in for you and deliver of that becomes worth it. Really depends on how many high pressure tanks you use in a month.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:24 AM
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Richard Huntrods Richard Huntrods is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Campbell View Post
...

If you find a homefill medical unit you can pair that with a 5lpm concentrator and fill your large oxygen cylinders to 2,000 psi in about 24 hours. I have several of these units but still keep liquid oxygen when I have a lot of work to do....
Thanks Sky, that is awesome info. I'm more interested in the 2000psi option as my primary O2 use is filling tanks for a rebreather (SCUBA diving). The liquid O2 sounds interesting, but it seems to all be rather low pressure (up to 300psi from what I read).

What are your initial costs on the concentrator, or do you buy refurbished?
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Huntrods View Post
Thanks Sky, that is awesome info. I'm more interested in the 2000psi option as my primary O2 use is filling tanks for a rebreather (SCUBA diving). The liquid O2 sounds interesting, but it seems to all be rather low pressure (up to 300psi from what I read).

What are your initial costs on the concentrator, or do you buy refurbished?
The concentrators I get from the local hospice resale shop for $50 the homefills are harder to find but if you watch out for them you can find them cheap. I've never paid more then $200 for one.

You can by pass the oxygen purity sensor and fill your scuba up to 2000 psi with clean air but here all our scuba tanks get filled to 3,000 psi. Look into pneumatic amplifiers if your just wanting to fill scuba tanks. Devilbliss makes a oxygen pneumatic amplifier called the ifill. They have very little moving parts and are superior to the 5 stage piston pumps of the homefill. They are just harder to find.
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky Campbell View Post
The concentrators I get from the local hospice resale shop for $50 the homefills are harder to find but if you watch out for them you can find them cheap. I've never paid more then $200 for one.

You can by pass the oxygen purity sensor and fill your scuba up to 2000 psi with clean air but here all our scuba tanks get filled to 3,000 psi. Look into pneumatic amplifiers if your just wanting to fill scuba tanks. Devilbliss makes a oxygen pneumatic amplifier called the ifill. They have very little moving parts and are superior to the 5 stage piston pumps of the homefill. They are just harder to find.
I know divers boost O2 past 2250psi, but that does exceed recommended pressure. Actual scuba tank working pressures vary by tank and capacity. Aluminum scuba tanks has a 3000 psi working pressure, but I have a couple of HP steel tanks that fill to over 3500psi, but that's usually air.

I have a small booster that will take O2 in a tank from anything above 500 psi to 2400 (my chosen working pressure), but it takes a lot longer the lower the initial pressure. So a concentrator really does sound ideal. I'll have to keep a look out for one.
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