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Old 07-17-2019, 03:20 AM
Chris Lowry Chris Lowry is offline
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Hxtal

Iíve been playing with glueing on bases... any advice on glueing to stainless or granite/quartz? Does it hold up? Seems to be working so far but always hard to sleep under.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:48 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Honestly you should be gtg on granite or quartz in the majority of cases. As long as there's no type of clear coat that's a pretty excellent surface to bond to. The main enemy of hxtal is going to be plastic or flexible surfaces.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:08 AM
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I have even hxtal'd glass to marble and gone back on the grinders with them joined. Just never pre clean with windex.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:52 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Yarp, no cleaners with residues. Denatured works, but you should give it a good hand buff after. Xylene's the good stuff, just don't inhale.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:59 AM
Chris Lowry Chris Lowry is offline
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Thanks... I have a piece waiting for itís stainless base but Iíve been scared to try. Iím excited to try the stone idea as well.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:26 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Hxtal is kind of amazing stuff. It will stick to just about anything, but if the joint has any kind of flex to it, that is where it's likely to fail. They do sell an "amino" prep solution, but I don't know of anyone that actually uses it other than laminaters.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:57 PM
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I used it back in the '90's but found essentially that 1/2 percent xylene did the same job. Conservation Materials had a pretty good sales rap on the amino stuff and no one ever demonstrated that it was better than snake oil. Pure xylene is not inexpensive and I had a four liter bottle which disturbed me in that it kept evaporating and I could not determine how that could be. I have used the simpler form from Home depot which is cheap but have not been convinced of what other additives might be in it. I do think the xylene gives it tooth. I've seen nothing that I feel contributes to failure in a joint.
For a while, MB was using the pure xylene as a prep and had really bad delam. Once she got right with god and went back to 1/2 % it was fine.

In the optics stuff, it's worth keeping in mind that the glasses being used were annealed to various levels of refinement and some, quite poorly, to the point that shrinkage in the glass itself could contribute to delamination. Do keep in mind that the shrinkage rates between stainless and your host glass can be sufficient enough to cause issues in a thick piece.

I have seen Schott glued to Aluminum and then taken down to about -30F. The joint failed but not at the glue line. The glass cracked about an inch and a half away from that point. Then again, I can't state with real certainty how well that glass was annealed. It's a constant problem that is rarely considered.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:03 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
Pure xylene is not inexpensive and I had a four liter bottle which disturbed me in that it kept evaporating and I could not determine how that could be.
Sure, "evaporating", that's what all the kids say.

Most of the failure I've seen has been a result of people using a completely inappropriate material, wood, cough, cough. Or their being an issue with one of the components. There is a shelf life for each, and it's impacted by how you store it. I tended to keep the stuff in the fridge, but you had to be patenting about getting it back to room temp. Sometimes as one of them ages, can't remember if it was A or B, it will start to come out of solution. There's a haze that develops, but you can actually bring it back to life with low heat.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:57 PM
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I am not aware of any shelf life on Hxtal. I continue to use bottles I got ten years back. It's fine. The evaporation was on the xylene.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:03 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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How are you storing it? I would have the stuff turn translucent and lose stability, usually about 18mo. Last time it happened we hit up HIS and they said stick it next to a heat lamp for a day to put back in suspension.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:00 PM
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I've got it in one gallon containers ( really!) We keep it at around 60F. We do heat it when we are about to mix.
Maybe mine's vintage!
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:43 PM
Marty Kremer Marty Kremer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lowry View Post
Thanks... I have a piece waiting for itís stainless base but Iíve been scared to try. Iím excited to try the stone idea as well.
I hxtaled glass to aluminum and stored the pieces in a very cold garage over the winter in NY. The aluminum shrunk, the glass didn't, and the hxtal went with the aluminum along with fractures of glass. Had to remake with silicone as the bond.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:31 AM
Chris Lowry Chris Lowry is offline
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Originally Posted by Marty Kremer View Post
I hxtaled glass to aluminum and stored the pieces in a very cold garage over the winter in NY. The aluminum shrunk, the glass didn't, and the hxtal went with the aluminum along with fractures of glass. Had to remake with silicone as the bond.
Interesting, so did any of the glue break loose or was there still glass attached to aluminum?
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:07 AM
Marty Kremer Marty Kremer is online now
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The glue was intact, the glass fractured.
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Old 07-20-2019, 09:35 AM
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I saw exactly the same thing once when John Nickerson hxtal'd Schott to aluminum.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:57 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Finally needed to mix up some hex and low an behold it was cloudy. Camera work isn't great, but it precipitates as little squareish crystals on the bottom and also on the sides above the liquid line. 12 hours in a hot box and whole thing is crystal clear.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Kremer View Post
Had to remake with silicone as the bond.
Have you encountered any problems with this Marty? My understanding is silicone should not be used on aluminum. When it cures it gives off acetic acid which does not play well with aluminum. I've used it once, and the bond has held well for 13 years (still have the piece), but I can see discoloration where the metal joins the glass (clear).
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
Finally needed to mix up some hex and low an behold it was cloudy. Camera work isn't great, but it precipitates as little squareish crystals on the bottom and also on the sides above the liquid line. 12 hours in a hot box and whole thing is crystal clear.
Are you using a vacuum chamber?
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:52 PM
Marty Kremer Marty Kremer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Vriethoff View Post
Have you encountered any problems with this Marty? My understanding is silicone should not be used on aluminum. When it cures it gives off acetic acid which does not play well with aluminum. I've used it once, and the bond has held well for 13 years (still have the piece), but I can see discoloration where the metal joins the glass (clear).
My piece is about that old and I still have it (http://www.kremerglass.com/site2.htm). The glue bond is between the glass and the aluminum billets at the end closest to the ss panel. No discoloration last I looked at about a year ago. The glass- Bullseye Tekta- and the aluminum were sandblasted before glueing.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:21 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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Not for this batch, bond is hidden. The hot box was just a plastic tub with a lamp in it.
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