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  #26  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:23 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Thanks for clarifying for me. I'll ask Jim about your clear the next time we speak. He has sent a couple formulas so things are moving along for me in the use of batch via East Bay.

To this end, I'm reinforcing my furnace with less brick-more castable. No surprise...I've found the Kastolite areas are holding up a lot better than brick after a few chalcedony runs.
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  #27  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:08 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I will keep in mind that Jim sent those to you. I was not expecting to see any aspect of my own material here.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:38 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Hi Pete, So far we have only done ~80lbs each of the unoxidized and a Brossphate. I'm already planning a larger order for the unoxidized.

I don't believe he has your recipe for the clear. I'm hoping you guys can share the info on that so I can try this glass and move on from cullet.
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  #29  
Old 04-17-2018, 07:33 AM
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I'll be calling Jim about sharing any of my material with you without checking in with me first. It's not for public consumption. It's my intellectual property.

On the actual use of the borax, I would not put it in an electric melt. Fluorine either . I am running gas which has a flue. Big difference.
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  #30  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:18 AM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Hi Pete. Last thing I want is an issue with your intellectual property. I sent Jim your formula from this thread:
http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=7288

Jim wrote right on the bag "Pete's unoxidized batch" so we are recognizing the source in name. I invite you to discuss this with him and I hope you will discuss the clear formula as well.

We (you and I) discussed this in a few threads so I was under the impression that I was being transparent. I apologize that this is coming as a surprise.

The borax is just something I'm going to have to live with and my only furnace option is electric. My saving grace is that I'm only melting about 10 lbs at a time.
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  #31  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:23 AM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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Here's a quick start to your clear melting/batching class.

There are two "rules of eight"

1. - Less than 8% modifiers (2nd column of periodic table) and you're looking for trouble.

2, - Add up the alkalai metals percentages (1st column of the periodic table) in your glass and divide that number by eight. This is the minimum amount of alumina you MUST have in your glass...or it will devit.

Love Mark's steam chamber test. Living in FL is sort of the same thing.

Where were the cullet mines? On the lead-free side of the magic mountain.
You would have had to have been here a while to get this one.
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  #32  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:59 AM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is offline
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Totally lame not to even try and rectify the situation. Bad business.

---

How much would you have to charge for your "boutique" cullet, Pete?

$5/lb? $10? I know it's not gonna happen. Just curious.
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  #33  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:01 AM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Hi Dave, I have a version of your Brossphate on it's way...keep thinking it will be on my doorstep when I get home

Can't wait to try it out. Will post some pics. I'm reinforcing the furnace for these borax melts but am planning to be back on line in a couple weeks.

Can you imagine a mint color recipe for your formula similar to the Gaffer opals?
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  #34  
Old 04-17-2018, 01:16 PM
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the formula you sent to Jim is actually long since modified. It appears to me that the print out Jim sent me of what you asked him to make is one of my in house run sheets. Where did that come from? I would not imagine that would be easy to melt in a wire melter.

As to making cullet: I don't see quality cullet happening for anything under $1.65 lb. It does become a matter of scale, in fuel use, supplies purchased, melting and shipping. Everything has to be watched like a hawk. To properly set up, I would think it would take 3 one ton melters and all of the mixing, bagging and trucking facility to go with it. The only place that could currently do it is Spruce Pine.
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  #35  
Old 04-17-2018, 02:45 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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I first sent Jim the older formula but realized it was devoid of alum. I'm afraid that I was given your other formula some time ago. I realized it was the superior batch and likely what you would have given Jim. I used it because we had discussed it and I agreed to a royalty payment.

I'm a really small fish and it's hard to get the attention of the bigger players. I connected the dots for fear that you would not be able to find the time. I hope you can understand that and not hold it against me.

As a scientist myself, I am quite familiar with intellectual property concerns. I would not use your formula without your knowledge and came back on the board to let you know that it was happening. If your plan was to not release the formula I will cease use of it and I am sure Jim will also.
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  #36  
Old 04-17-2018, 02:49 PM
Cecil McKenzie Cecil McKenzie is offline
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I had a fit issue once with Spruce Pine batch. They tested it and agreed that it had a problem and replaced it. I did have to load it back on a truck to return it. The problem that Richard had seems much worse. The glass from Spruce Pine was at least good clear glass.
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  #37  
Old 04-17-2018, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil McKenzie View Post
I had a fit issue once with Spruce Pine batch. They tested it and agreed that it had a problem and replaced it. I did have to load it back on a truck to return it. The problem that Richard had seems much worse. The glass from Spruce Pine was at least good clear glass.
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  #38  
Old 04-17-2018, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Vanantwerp View Post
I first sent Jim the older formula but realized it was devoid of alum. I'm afraid that I was given your other formula some time ago. I realized it was the superior batch and likely what you would have given Jim. I used it because we had discussed it and I agreed to a royalty payment.

I'm a really small fish and it's hard to get the attention of the bigger players. I connected the dots for fear that you would not be able to find the time. I hope you can understand that and not hold it against me.

As a scientist myself, I am quite familiar with intellectual property concerns. I would not use your formula without your knowledge and came back on the board to let you know that it was happening. If your plan was to not release the formula I will cease use of it and I am sure Jim will also.
*******
Both Jim and Tom pay me a royalty when they mix my formulations. It's not much, .06 lb I'm fine with jim mixing it, I'm not fine with distributing the formula. It's sort of like someone saying "I love your cookies" and then asking for the recipe. Interestingly, when Gaffer was having Seattle Batch mix their formula, they wanted .005 cent per lb royalty. Once Seattle Batch was in arrears $35 thousand dollars, they cut him off. What did he do? He took the formula to China and got himself into real issues. I used to measure the expansion on that cullet and it varied as much as 8 points per container. My last color class had a student in it who went home and started making color rods from it and severely under cut my prices. I told him it was a copyright violation and he was furious. Since then, I'm not nearly as expansive as I once was.
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  #39  
Old 04-17-2018, 03:41 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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I'd like to offer a restitution of sorts by contributing at the $100/year level to the Craftweb Hot Glass Talk forum. I rely on this resource so heavily that it has occurred to me many times that I need to give back. I apologize for the misstep.
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  #40  
Old 04-17-2018, 04:16 PM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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Dan,

If you want to play with color in the phosphate batch I'll point out a fairly easy way to start.

http://talk.craftweb.com/showthread.php?t=11367

There's a thumbnail of a Penland??? (I think) handout from long ago in this post listing a bunch of phosphate colors. Use the percentages of colorant listed and you'll like what you get. You'll have to calculate the percentages from the list of ingredients. The easy way to do that is the old "target over total times 100" or add everything up, divide the particular colorant you're after the % of into the total and then multiply by 100 (move the decimal point 2 places) to see what % it is.
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  #41  
Old 04-17-2018, 04:23 PM
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Supporting Katie is a really worthwhile endeavor. She's one of my quiet heros at this pointWe have been joined at the hip for a long time. Both of us are aging which could not have possibly happened. Here we are. I'm considering passing the baton as is Katie. We both want continuity and I am thinking of a book based in the many observations over these last 16 years.

So, By all means, support her. She can use it. She needs it. A remarkable woman who asked nothing but my partnership and trust those many years back. Grand Woman.
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  #42  
Old 04-17-2018, 05:16 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Dave, I believe you've mentioned the Penland colors and it's one of the reasons I wanted to get into your phosphate glass. I plan on making pots of different colors, blowing some pieces and saving rods/frit of whatever is left over (just got a little shiver thinking about it). I asked about the mint for a specific project. A girl I work with just got her own place and wants a big bowl for her kitchen. She agreed to buy me some color for the project so I may just go with a Reichenbach or Gaffer mint.

Pete, I'll mail a check tomorrow.
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  #43  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:39 PM
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Deal with Jim, not me.
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  #44  
Old 04-17-2018, 07:23 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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This check is going to KatieMo
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  #45  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:39 AM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Making good crystal consistently has always been a problem. About 10+n years ago Dave Bross and I visited one of the larger glass companies in W, VA. who had been making glass for many, many years. All the pieces in their shop and showroom were "weaping". We're talking hundreds if not thousands of pieces. I'm certain that they had made lots of good glass over the years but for some reason, it may have been a new batch master or change in suppliers for raw materials, they had a lot of inferior glass in their inventory.
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  #46  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:36 AM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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I clearly remember that...and being amazed they were selling it to people as it decomposed. What a classic old blowing floor too. Just like stepping back into the 20s or 30s.

Thanks again for showing me all that Tom, that was one of my favorite trips of my lifetime and a snapshot of an era that ended very shortly thereafter.
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  #47  
Old 04-18-2018, 07:42 PM
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Franklin Sankar Franklin Sankar is offline
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On my way to GAS I droped in on Tom and he drove us to GAS stopping at some of the most amazing places along the way . It was really so sad to see what happened to the factories and more so to the great glassblowers who worked there.
Thanks Tom it was an experience I will never forget.
Franklin
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