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Old 06-29-2017, 08:22 AM
Gary Genetti Gary Genetti is offline
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Spectrum 96 update?

Does anybody have news about Spectrum 96 line of products? I have been making large murrine from nuggets and fusing to fusible sheet and have a commission for large sculpture. Any one else making compatible cullet and sheet?
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:19 AM
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fusing to what sheet? The old sys96 was a 94.1 in reality. I know that they say they've changed it some. Oceanside will indeed be making the Spectrum runs of Sheet Glass in Tijuana but that doesn't convert it to it being what it once was. Uroboros will be a non player.

You will need some serious testing. I have to suspect at this point making the switch to Bullseye is a safer move. It means dumping everything you have. You might check in the facebook page "glassies"
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Old 06-29-2017, 10:50 AM
Gary Genetti Gary Genetti is offline
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Spectrum made colored sheet glass which was compatible with the nuggets. I have also made murrine from Glasma batch with mixed results(some cracking).
Does bullseye make a blowing glass?
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:50 AM
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Spectrum indeed did make sheet glass but the product line has been spun off to Oceanside Glass in California. i do not have a clue as to whether they maintained the production specs. The Spectrum 2.0 is a 86 glass and is essentially SP87. The sys96 glass is not . It's a 94.1. That puts you in a real danger zone particularly if you're casting. The two clears were not compatible with each other although they did not seem to outright explode.

90 as a linear expansion would have been a far better glass but by the time attention was being aid to commercial glass production, Spruce Pine was the elephant in the room. Everything migrated towards fitting it. You could blow Bullseye but it would be a PIA to melt all that fine frit and it would be really expensive as well.

I'm simply saying to test first.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:34 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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I have always been puzzled by this footnote in Dante's book. See the attachment...

Anyone know if this is really the case? Does Dante use Bullseye for his studio work? Do they make a clear batch or cullet?

What would blowing a 90 COE glass feel like?
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:03 PM
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Bullseye pushed to get the glass blowing community on board in the early 90's.

https://youtu.be/dv-hJ85wL7U

The chandelier that Lino's blowing in the video used to be on display in their old gallery space.

What I heard through the grapevine is that Dante disliked the working qualities of the glass. I think they smartly let the whole thing die on the vine. It was too easy for the S96 people to lock-in that market.

If I remember correctly they did offer blowing cullet for sale for a while. I assisted on a rollup once, and did some marvering once the bubble was established. No actual tooling at the bench, so I can't offer much into.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:15 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
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I took a rollup class blowing with Bullseye 90. No way no how would I use that willingly again. Great for fusing, nasty to blow with, you have to heat like you are doing a flutter bowl, and work like you are doing a goblet. No time to work, you have to heat the snot out of it.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:19 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Thanks Greg. That explains a lot...He's done so many demos in studios established with 96 COE glass that I would think it very challenging to go between Bullseye and a SP-like glass.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:21 PM
Dan Vanantwerp Dan Vanantwerp is offline
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Sounds about right...Not as bad as trying to blow boro though, I imagine
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Vanantwerp View Post
I have always been puzzled by this footnote in Dante's book. See the attachment...

Anyone know if this is really the case? Does Dante use Bullseye for his studio work? Do they make a clear batch or cullet?

What would blowing a 90 COE glass feel like?
***************
I view that attachment as gobbeldygook but you have to put it in the right time frame.
Bullseye worked very hard at pushing the notion of using their glass in Aussie Rollups and made a concerted effort to dominate the market in OZ. That has been quite successful. In this country, The battle between Spectrum/Uroboros inevitably brought out the worst in each company in terms of pure pettiness. That was at least a 30 year war, maybe more. Bullseye usually maintained the image that they made glass "for real Artists" and the other guys made refrigerator magnets. They distinctly dissed that competition continually. Neither could get a toehold on Batch which Littleton had done a fair job of dominating by the simple nature of being first. Seattle Batch had a local following but was problematic in how coarse their silica was which caught them a ton of flack and when the company began to take a bastardized version of the Gaffer formula to China without proper engineering controls, it went all to Hell and failed. Spectrum kept its head down and just kept making nuggets and with the collaboration with Uroboros had quite the product combo for years. SPectrum did have a good sized business in colored sheet but that entire crowd vanished in the crash in 2008 and eventually the only profitable part of the company left was the nugget end with two seriously aging furnaces. Dan and Lani had thier crisis last year which was well publicized and humiliating but ultimately, they survived and Uroboros could not justify the baghouses it would have to have to keep going, OR at least that's my opinion.

When I think of a glass, expansion is part of it and that usually goes hand in hand with working time but it also generally yields up a pretty marginal glass when it comes to durability. You can't buy a good durable cullet. 96 L.E.C. glasses are usually at the very top end or beyond for the acceptable levels of alkaline flux and they don't have much alumina in them as a general rule which would improve durability but would probably cut working range. It indeed can be done to make a glass with high expansion and durability but there are none on the market I'm aware of. Peiser seems to be the only person I can find who is concerned with the issue.
The Kugler part just confuses me. There are lots better color rods on the market. I know that Bullseye used to make an enamel white for Dante and a few other chosen ones.
If you go to Australia these days, many use a local batch mixing company. Some get Gaffer batch and many use bullseye because the compatibility issues are solved and no one wants to think hard anymore. Glass from a toothpaste tube, I swear I could go on for hours.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:58 PM
Gary Genetti Gary Genetti is offline
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My question is whether there is a blowing glass cullet or batch compatible with system96 color sheets. The fact that the nuggets are 94.1 coe and fit the sheets means that a blowing glass of close proximity would work. I have a couple of barrels of Gabbert #6 left from olden days. Anybody know if that might work? I will have to do some comp. testing for sure.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:27 PM
Tom Littleton Tom Littleton is offline
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Some years ago we had a request for a Bullseye compatible version of the Labino Formula (Spruce Pine Batch) which we made for that one customer. He used it for a good number of years and has now retired. He did however make large numbers of C-balls.

Never had much interest in a 90 expasion glass other than that one customer.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:34 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Genetti View Post
My question is whether there is a blowing glass cullet or batch compatible with system96 color sheets. The fact that the nuggets are 94.1 coe and fit the sheets means that a blowing glass of close proximity would work. I have a couple of barrels of Gabbert #6 left from olden days. Anybody know if that might work? I will have to do some comp. testing for sure.
Hi gary, I do some really simple fusing projects that involve using colored system 96 sheet glass and Spruce Pine 87 and it works just fine. I use transparent and have never had a problem.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:12 PM
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thickness matters.
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Old 06-29-2017, 08:23 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
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I have seen the old System 96 flat from Spectrum used with the old System 96 nugget from Spectrum with no problems (in some thick work). I have had good luck using Uroboros 96 Frit with Old and New Spectrum nugget. I am able to use the new System 96 with the cane and murinne based on the old System 96. When I get my hands on the OGT produced 96 flat I will let you know if that works. My gut tells me that IF they stick somewhat close to the old formula for flat 96 things should appear OK. That doesn't address Pete's points about compatibility but empirically my gut tells me things will be OK.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:49 PM
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Oceanside has released an update on their progress with Spectrum and Uroboros products. Nuggets are still in limbo as are casting products. Not surprisingly, many discontinued products. No more 90 COE. They're starting production on stringers, noodles, and rods this month. They're gonna have fun with that.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:00 PM
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I listened to that video very carefully.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:45 PM
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I've already seen complaining from people on social media about price increase. Stained glass people are upset that they'll have to pay more now due to the plan to have only the line of 96 Compatible. Just to clarify, Art Glass (for stained glass users) made by Uroboros have traditionally been 96. They were just never tested for fusing compatibility.

It didn't surprise me when it was announced that Oceanside bought the whole thing. The part in the video about them using the products for their own tile production is the key. Just my opinion, but I believe any considerations for outside uses will only be secondary.
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:08 AM
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and... it's a 94.1 Just to be clear.

None of these people quit because they were raking in cash.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:32 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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I didn't mind working with the 90 LEC Bullseye glass years ago. Besides doing stuff at the furnace with their sheet glass, got to take some dips in a pot of clear melted at Corning for one of Giles Bettison's classes. It felt like a glass that could be gotten used to.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:39 PM
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from a durability point of view, 90 would be a glass that would hold up better but SP87 as the elephant in the room kept the room. Less expansion shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing. Overall composition is more important
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:08 PM
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Agreed on the composition....follow Nick Labinos' rule of 8 for having enough alumina and you're good. Some zinc never hurts durability or appearance either.

You can change working characteristics radically with small amounts of lithium. One of the most fun glasses to work was old plate window glass I had a mountain of "tuned up" for working characteristics and expansion with lithium. The stuff would take a nice long time to set but was much stiffer (but still nicely workable) than what everyone is used to with glasses like SP. It just wouldn't droop at all but still entirely toolable for a long time. Is toolable even a word? Oh well, it is now.

The question in my mind is why Oceanside doesn't just make one glass expansion "size".

Why not make it all to their compatible spec and simplify things a ton?
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:12 PM
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My suspicion at this point is that they purchased a box of formulas and don't necessarily have the expertise to go beyond that currently. It's just a guess. Moving the whole deal to Mexico is quite enough of a venture. Do keep in mind that the bulk of the products were stained glass, not fusibles if I understand it at all.

Watch what they do.
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:13 PM
Steven O'Day Steven O'Day is offline
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Quote:
...why Oceanside doesn't just make one glass expansion...?
According to the Oceanside info they are standardizing their line to System 96. Stained glass artists are not happy because of cost.

A lot of the current 'untested' glass actually is compatible but it devitrifies terribly when re-heated.

Wissmach makes a 96 line but in my experience it is often full of small stones.

Youghiogheny Glass make some as well, I haven't tried it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:56 PM
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Standardizing to Sys 96, which is a 94.1 if anyone cares at all "will not go gentle into that good night..."
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