CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk  

Go Back   CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk > Hot Glass > General Hot Glass Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:50 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 76
Philip Yamron is on a distinguished road
Spruce pine "Everclear" batch. TS replacement.

Hello. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with the new "Everclear" batch from Spruce Pine? I called to order there 87 Texas Sand but was told they have replaced that formula with a new "clearer" batch. I ordered it because,hell, its Spruce Pine batch so I trust it.

Just curious if anyone has any experience or knowledge that could be shared.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:53 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,247
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
the new silica is phenomenal.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:57 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 76
Philip Yamron is on a distinguished road
Great!!

What makes you feel that way?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:00 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,247
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
The results. I get to see this stuff. While I won't go into sourcing, I will say that the processing of the material was critical to the success. Greg and I were talking about this stuff almost a year ago. I'm not at liberty to say why it worked, but with some interesting technology it's great. I'll have my next pallet of it made this way and I'm already really happy with the clarity now.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-10-2019, 01:31 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 4,537
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
I use it. Itís amazingly clear. Zero shades of green.
__________________
<eben epoiese>
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-10-2019, 01:47 PM
Greg Vriethoff's Avatar
Greg Vriethoff Greg Vriethoff is online now
PotatoFish
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,092
Greg Vriethoff is on a distinguished road
Will this be available in Snowflake?
__________________
"Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement." - Jackson Pollack
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-10-2019, 01:59 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 4,537
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
Yes...........
__________________
<eben epoiese>
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-10-2019, 07:04 PM
Greg Vriethoff's Avatar
Greg Vriethoff Greg Vriethoff is online now
PotatoFish
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,092
Greg Vriethoff is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eben Horton View Post
Yes...........
Awesome! Thank you.
__________________
"Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement." - Jackson Pollack
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-11-2019, 07:15 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,247
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Everything is available in snowflake. That's simply a question of the amount of water in the mix.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-11-2019, 03:03 PM
Greg Vriethoff's Avatar
Greg Vriethoff Greg Vriethoff is online now
PotatoFish
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,092
Greg Vriethoff is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
Everything is available in snowflake. That's simply a question of the amount of water in the mix.
What's the minimum for an order?
__________________
"Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement." - Jackson Pollack
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-11-2019, 03:09 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,247
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I'm not a sales rep. You need to ask Candy. For my batch, it's one ton and it's a better glass if that matters. Both are dead on 96. It does seem to me that the price is the same for the everclear as opposed to the texas sand.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-11-2019, 09:13 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 4,537
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
Everclear is the new Texas sand, Pete. New sand. New name.
__________________
<eben epoiese>
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-29-2019, 12:37 AM
Lynn Read Lynn Read is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 17
Lynn Read is on a distinguished road
I have tried the new Everclear and it looks amazing. Super clear, not green tint. Looks amazing when you gather it.

I am having trouble melting it. Can you share some advise? Do you use the same melt profile as the W/er?

I melt in an electric 300 lbs furnace. My melt profile in below.

Preheat and soak for one hour at 2350.
load 25 lbs and push the pile flat. Let cook 45 minutes and stir. Then melt another 30-45 minutes before the next charge.

After pot is full melt at 2350 for 11 hours
drop to 1900 and hold 8 hours, then back to 2130 in four hours.

Results: clean glass no bubbles. Some worms now and again but usually no bubbles, I rarely need to pick bubbles.

With the Everclear this is not working. I was advised to cook 1 hour extra when I switched over. My first two melt profile are....

- first melt
preheat 2360 and soak for 1 hour.
load 25 lbs and push it flat, ...... later I will load bigger charges at the thermal mass grows.
Stir after 45 minutes and then let is melt until all batch is melted another hour. Total time is about 1:45 per charge to full melt.
This adds about 15 minutes longer per charge

Once loaded cook for 13:30 Hours at 2360, drop to 1900 and hold 8 hours, back to 2130 in 4 hours.

results... no cords. 1- 1.5mm bubble randomly but frequent. Small but ugly.

Second Melt:
Preheat at 2370
Load 25lbs stirred at 45 minutes, let it cook for 30 and stir again to break up the small pellets still unmelted. Total time 1:45 minutes.

Soak for 13:30 at 2370. Everything else the same.

Results.... super seedy glass, like it was melted cullet. Still 1-1.5mm bubbles randomly but far more frequently than desired. So tiled of pulling bubbles this week or throwing it in the trash or making stuff I don't need.


What and I doing wrong, I feel lost and clueless.

Last edited by Lynn Read; 05-30-2019 at 01:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:17 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 4,537
Eben Horton is on a distinguished road
Lynn,
I would increase the amount of batch you charge to 50 pound charges and give it an hour and a half at least between charges. Do not even think about charging on top of any unmelted batch.
__________________
<eben epoiese>

Last edited by Eben Horton; 05-29-2019 at 07:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-29-2019, 07:07 AM
Victor Chiarizia Victor Chiarizia is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fairview, NC
Posts: 560
Victor Chiarizia is on a distinguished road
and it's a local sand i was told. v
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:15 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,247
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
A few thoughts:
What is the condition of your crucible?

Is it possible something is coming down from the crown?

Particle shape matters. You mention moving bits of unmelted batch around after 45 minutes. That's a touch quick in my book but I understand the reasoning.

In my own melts, these days I let the furnace run up to 2400F and stay there until I like what I see but these days time isn't an issue for me. When this sort of thing comes up, Ialways ask about other experiences. If one person is having trouble with something, I look to that person. If five people are having the same problem, I look at the circumstance.

It indeed is a local silica but it's being processed in a very novel way. Spruce Pine as an area is curiously high in mineral deposits. There's even a Spodumene ( lithium) mine north of Spruce Pine although it's shuttered right now. The Kona Feldspar was mined right there before the factory burned down. Now it's Minispar, also a really nice spar.

First thing I'd try is turning the furnace up.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-29-2019, 03:13 PM
Chris Lowry Chris Lowry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 265
Chris Lowry is on a distinguished road
Iím no expert but I would say that your not hot enough. I also think your charging is a little complicated. I would charge more each time at a lower temp. Turn up to melt after itís full.

We charge 400 lb stadleman furnace with Spruce Pine TS

Start charge at 5:00 after working all day. Charge at working temp 50lbs every three hours. Maybe get three charges in that night

Next morning turn up 100 degrees charge 50 lbs every two hours. No stirring ar anything.

Once full turn up to 2350 for 9 hrs

Next morning it can be a little hot still and maybe a little seedy. Once it gets down to temp itís clean and read to go.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-29-2019, 05:25 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brattleboro, VT
Posts: 620
Josh Bernbaum is on a distinguished road
So Lynn, if you only put in 25 lbs at a time, and it's 45 min then stir, then another 45 min before next charge, then that's 1.5 hrs per 25 lbs, or 18 hours to fill the 300# pot? (and not including the moisture weight/volatization loss) Am I missing something in your explanation, because that sounds to me like not enough time in a day for all of that. Not including the 11 hr soak..

I have a 200# Stadelman moly and I use the regular SP batch, and it takes me long enough with approx. 45 lb charges, and about 2-2:20 till each goes flat and temp fully recovers (at 2275) And I do a 5-6 hr soak at 2300, potato-stirring towards the end of that time.

Stirring between charges prob can't hurt, but I'm wondering if you'd be better off stirring only towards the end of your cook cycle, when the viscosity is lowest and all batch constituents have definitely turned into glass at that point. Also, what if going down to 1900 for a squeeze is too low? Just wondering.
__________________
www.jmbglass.com
instagram.com/joshbernbaum_glass
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:14 PM
Greg Vriethoff's Avatar
Greg Vriethoff Greg Vriethoff is online now
PotatoFish
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,092
Greg Vriethoff is on a distinguished road
A larger load for your first drop is always better. Recalculate your total so the weight of each drop tapers towards the end.

This is a general "rule of thumb" that I have been exposed to in both a private studio setting as well as industrial application.

You may not want to integrate this until you get comfortable with your new material. I only throw this out for the hive mind to consider.
__________________
"Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement." - Jackson Pollack
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-30-2019, 01:45 AM
Lynn Read Lynn Read is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 17
Lynn Read is on a distinguished road
Pete, The crucible is very old. pushing two years. Changing it ASAP but trying to finish one project first. oops!

I have a new crown I installed two years ago. I have noticed more batch dust stuck around the doorway after melting TS. We thought maybe that we getting drafting as we gathered. We have since cleaned it all off just in case.

I always thought to preferred to melt batch at 2350 max. Thanks for the clarification.

When I melted hotter I ended up with micro seeds 30 hours after the melt. They disappeared after 54 hours from the melt.

My melt profile served me well with the Wer but not with the new updates TS. Now I am waiting for the Everclear to start new test.

Pete, can you verify that the proof ( dip test) should look like just before tuning down the furnace? From what I have been shown is that the bubbles should all be about 1/8"+, and spread out uniformly and no micro seeds.

Is they are all micro bubble and no large bubble the glass maybe over cooked and releasing antimony.


Josh, you are correct. I try to leave a small heal at the bottom or add a little cullet. Let that get to working temp and I will add a primer ( 30 LBS) the night before I ramp up for the am charge starts. I have a three hundred ponder and I can usually get it almost full in 10 hours. When totally empty about 12-14hours.


Greg, I do use a primer the day before. I find that starting with smaller charges and then going bigger melts nice glass all the way to the bottom. Accept this TS.


Chris, To be honest it sounds like we use the same strategy for loading start cool, then build up. I have considered ramping up after that pot if fully loaded. that last 100 degrees. I did that back with the Gaffer Batch and it worked if I remember well. Heed to get the old charge log out.

Thanks everyone
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-30-2019, 06:40 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,247
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
A basic observation on old pots: They have tons more surface area exposed to the melt than new ones do. A new pot looks quite smooth, even magnified. An old one looks like a chart of a 7.5 richter scale earthquake. The amount if interaction is really large and will absolutely affect a melt.

I do not drop to 1900F at all. 2000F is as far as I go these days. Sometimes I stay nearer to 2050. The glass tells me what it wants.
The antimony remains in the melt. It doesn't gas off. It performs a function of valence switching wherin the antimony takes on electrons in the outer electron ring. It goes back into solution. Going to the squeeze too fast makes that more difficult as the viscosity of the glass goes way up. Glass really doesn't lke to be hurried and actually doesn't do well with schedules. I prefer proofing and having the glass visually tell me what it's doing. The bubble size sounds right but really fine bubbles indicate a melt that is not yet chemically complete, or of some external factor adding to the soup, like an old pot.

As has been noted, don't ever add batch on top of unmelted batch. Confirming your thermocuple's accuracy might be appropriate. The more stirring the better as long as the melts are complete. Otherwise, stirring unmelted batch down in the pot may melt poorly, having been insulated.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-30-2019, 10:38 AM
Lynn Read Lynn Read is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 17
Lynn Read is on a distinguished road
Hi Pete, I understand about the pot deterioration. I have pushed this pot too long so I'll rebuilt and start my new melt tests in July.

About stirring, do you recommend letting the charge sit (undisturbed) until fully melted vs mixing it up after is it 70% melted? One people in the batch supply chain have suggested this can help speed up the melt.

I am not sure how to add photos to this post but here is a url with a sample photo of my melt just at the point I turned it down.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-30-2019, 12:00 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 21,247
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I don't have javascript so I can't see the photo. I do not like to stir mid melt.
Part of what can happen here is that in the sidewall deterioration, stuff gets trapped. It lets go as the viscosity drops and new stuff can take its place. That I believe is where those tiny cords come from. As the pot continues to deteriorate, more alumina comes into melt and that can require more heat to process.

At least that's what I think. When your pot is really new, it's easy to see the differences.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-30-2019, 07:47 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
?
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,683
Jordan Kube is on a distinguished road
Lynn, I would be curious to see what happens when you forget the "squeeze" and let it sit at working temperature for the time you would normally dedicate to the squeeze.
__________________
WWUD? Think for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-31-2019, 01:38 PM
Richard Huntrods's Avatar
Richard Huntrods Richard Huntrods is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,160
Richard Huntrods is on a distinguished road
If the pot had a different glass in it before this latest batch, even minor differences in formulation can cause this behavior.

It happened to me when I tried a new batch, and again when I went back to SP. It took 5 melts until the little stones stopped showing up and I was back to good glass again. This was on a brand new crucible, so the only issue was changing the batch I was using.

(started with new pot on SP and got great glass; switched to different batch and had tiny stones; switched back to sp, still got tiny stones for 5 additional melts but fewer on each melt until it was again clear on subsequent melts).
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:44 PM.


All published comments within these message boards are the opinions of its contributor and does not represent
the opinion(s) of the owner(s) of this website. Please see the Terms of Use file for more details.

Books to Help Artists Avoid Online Scams: Top 10 Email Scams | Social Media Scams

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© CraftWEB.com. Opportunity Network. 2008. All Rights Reserved.