CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk  

Go Back   CraftWEB Hot Glass Talk > Hot Glass > General Hot Glass Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:49 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 131
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
Dennis participated at a lot of sales at my old shop, and used a lot of 96 for decoration. Just thinking he might be one of the people most impacted by changing to a different coe glass.

I know melting the regular clear sheet has a major change over time compared to to the nuggets, you've got about 4-5 days before it's snot. As I've mentioned before, if you can charge at blowing temp this tends to extend it by a bit, and cuts down on the corrosion.

I don't remember having a lot of compatibility issues at the time, but when I was working my thesis it was mostly clear. What I hated about it was that it had a yellow tinge, was so happy when we moved to the Gaffer batch.

On melting the color, I remember melting the cuttoffs at UW in what I was told was an original Halem prototype 3 crucible electric. I can lament about the furnace design flaws in another post, but you had about 48 hours before you had major glass changes. You couldn't beat the price at $1/lb, but there was a gorgeous red that went transparent, opaque, white, clear, and then you were nearly removing the crucible as you gathered; all within 2 days. A few of the transparent blues and greens you could keep in the tank for a bit, but none of it was designed to go past 1600 and sit for any period of time.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:57 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 131
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
The thing with sheet glass that Spectrum made its bones on was the stained glass home industry. In the crash of 2008, that hobby was really abandoned and the market crunch severe. Sheet glass doesn't need to be consistent from one pane to the next if you aren't fusing. I suspect that in the drive to regain market access, there were short cuts on research results. The product line was bought up and we're just seeing the market trying the stuff out and getting results they didn't want.
What seems like a strange turn of events for me is Oceanside's decision to remove stained glass as an option and went fusible across the product line. Now you have Youghiogheny and Wissmach trying to elbow in on some of the fusible market share too, they are worse in terms of consistency issues. While I don't care for the surface or edges of Bullseye, they are the king of consistency, but I guess that comes with premium price point.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 04-02-2019, 12:23 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,956
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I never cared for the colors from BE. They always have seemed flat to me. That being said, they do deliver consistency.

But Jeez, one would think there would be some serious beta testing before a horror show photograph like this one hits the scene. Who would ever want it. Since people seem to want to question the flue issue, I have to ask whether this was an issue with the glass Doug was using before trying out the flake. That's really big buildup and one would think other Dragons were having issues if it was a design problem.

I do think that gas furnaces should have to have flues. We're not the ignorant snots we were in 1970. I can see the presumptive error in the electric units, but not the gas.

Your description of the sheet glass you had to work with sounds just so warm and fuzzy. I did take note that someone said the Parriot Czech glass was at Olympic. I wonder how Phil will dole that out. Ample volume with consistent quality will be the name of that game. Look how quickly Cristalica went from Wunderkind to pariah. I wonder if Phil will keep handling the stuff if Parriot can deliver. Then you can wonder about Spruce Pine and Cristalica. The ethics surrounding all of this are pretty dicey.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 04-02-2019, 01:15 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 131
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
True, the BE pallet leaves a lot to be desired. I have dreams of Gaffer entering the flat world, but the casting will suffice.

Where are they questioning the purpose of a flue? I'm assuming those advocating not needing one don't have one on their furnace at home and have a wood burning stove without a chimney. I thought the concept with the dragons were that they exhaust out the front or though the lehr/pipewarmer/garage side port?

I remember melting the 96 cutoffs and an electric making several flues on demand.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 04-02-2019, 01:55 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,956
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
The reference is from the Glassies thread with two people suggesting that the difficulty with the buildup might be inadequate exhaust. So I pondered that for a while and wondered aloud here as to whether the guy who has the actual problem had been having similar problems before using the flake. I don't know the answer to that. I don't spend much time at Glassies so I don't know if there was follow up.

Any furnace that does rely on exhaust going out the front door might want to reconsider that. Way back when !976) I had pretty much free rein on the pilchuck tools.Rob Adamson had given me his blessing and at that time all the burners were a labino style through the crown exhausting through the door. Methodically, I punched holes in the sides of the furnaces above glass line ( they were tank block) and ran the burners through those holes. The crown served to flue. Now at that time we were putting about 45PSI into the venturis and a lot of that pressure was simply to overcome back pressure from combustion, or so I surmised. There was resistance to the idea. By doing that, I cut the fuel pressure about 20-25 lbs and if I recall correctly, there were four or six furnaces. It substantially lowered the fuel bill and the bean counters were really happy. Principally, those issues haven't changed today except that now recuperation is considered normal. In 1979 the Corning engineers told us that it was not possible to recuperate such small tooling.
Wrong.
It doesn't take much to flue a small furnace. A 3x5 opening does it and you can always choke it down.
You have a wry sense of humor.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 04-02-2019, 02:58 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 131
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
It only makes sense. That pressure from combustion has to go somewhere, and I'd rather it go up than in my face. Up also seems like the normal pathway for the boric to accumulate, so that would make sense why a dragon would build it so bad. Regardless that's at least the same kind of build up I was getting from Cristalica, and I'd like to avoid that. With the set up I have now I'm actually surprised I'm not seeing more with Studio nuggets I'm still burning, given their reputation.

I tried getting though about the Parriot, but all lines were busy and sent me to voice mail, that's a first for me.

I thought we decided that this was also a forum for terrible humor.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:21 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,956
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I don't think Dragons are terrible furnaces really. They are what they are and let a lot of people get involved for a minimum cost. That was true of Denver's as well. Now, we have an incredible range of costs for the things and virtually all of them assume that you could not possibly do this yourself. now that, I really hate.

The only commercial furnace I've ever owned was a Stadleman that Steve made me as a gift for helping him start his business. I wouldn't accept it unless I had a firm hand in the design and so it was the only one where the pot came out the front. I retired it about four years ago and went back to Gas since New Hampshire is so brutal on electric rates. My delivery charges exceed my consumption of power every month.

Cristalica is something I feel some guilt about having brought it into the country. Once I could see how bad the boron precipitate coupled to Barium was and the unwillingness of the company to respond to that, I pulled out my support. For cullet users, it's been a difficult last three years. I think it is very far from sorted out and the cane stuff will really linger.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:23 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,956
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post

I thought we decided that this was also a forum for terrible humor.
******
And lets keep it that way.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:19 PM
Max Epstein Max Epstein is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 284
Max Epstein is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitcheal Veenstra View Post
Hey now!! (do you know how much of my life I've been told I look like Bill Gates? sheesh! I'm a LOT taller! and MUCH poorer!!)

Thanks for the kind words guys. I'd say we had somewhere between 20 and 25 people in the room for the first LECMO on the first day at 8:30 am. We would have been happy to have 4. We had a group of students who were refurbishing an old color pot at their college in the front row wanting basic info on doing exactly what we were talking about. Add to that we had a LOT of good questions from the floor.

We had polls during the presentation that people could respond to with their phones and the last question at the end of the session was "Are you ready to make color?" and nobody said no on the poll. We were impressed and hopeful!

Maybe some new faces around here. I listed talk.craftweb.com as a potential resource and several call outs to folks.

We would have probably never started melting our own simple colors without you guys are a resource. Credit where credit is due. Now it's time to start the little gas color pot this summer during rebuild and start playing with batching some colors.
Well, you are about as smart as he so take it as a compliment

I will certainly be moving toward making my own color, starting with running batch at the very least. *If* the right cullet comes around, I might go for it.

----

The Oceanside rep said someone in Hawaii was testing it (someone named Josh maybe?), also Tacoma MoG will be testing it in the near future. That it is *not* lithium. And $1.50 a pound.

----

I'm back from GAS... wow!!! I met so many people that I've talked to on the phone, emailed with, and bought some blocks from Art.

St. Pete really is now a glass town, and it's exciting. The Imagine Museum is totally legit, and will be challenging Corning soon in a lot of areas. And there are more and more hotshops coming online. Marcelle Braun set up a mobile boro hotshop in my backyard and did a demonstration.

I mean, cmon. That's pretty f***** awesome!
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:45 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,956
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
Testing is a methodical process and involves some specific evaluations. For many, you actually need tools. Touchy feely kinds of tests have some validity for offhand work but I'm pretty interested in Hagy seals, Ring tests and dilatometry. That narrows the field when it comes to testing.

I can tell you that everytime a piece cracks, the color is blamed. That's not right.

Henry lists in Glassnotes IV labs that do tests aside from the Croucher/VanderLaan/Wooley methodologies as outlined in the book. They do cost money but then again, if you're selling a product that can have a long term effect, it may be best to not just rely on Grandma. Better to have the Seal of approval from an independent source, not the museum of glass or some guy in Hawaii..

That's my opinion.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 04-02-2019, 05:49 PM
Jordan Kube Jordan Kube is offline
?
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,671
Jordan Kube is on a distinguished road
I was out at one of the test shops in Hawaii recently. The glass is fine, just needs to be washed, which is always a hassle but has always been a part of using glass in broken sheet form, nothing new. Might take a little longer to fine out than the nuggets but, also what you sign up for. I didn't witness any large buildups or erosion of the furnace sill, flue, or other parts.

With regards to the Little Dragon I see the problem as this: Flame impingement onto the glass, causing increased volatilization of fluxes in the glass. The burner was also not sealed to the furnace, allowing those gasses to pass around the burner and condense on the cooler burner head.
__________________
WWUD? Think for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 04-02-2019, 06:12 PM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,956
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I question what happens with those dusts. I think they are really fine glass dusts. I further suspect that on volition they release the boron rapidly and it has no where to go. That cullet in my mind , needs washing to make it not create new issues.

I did the tests on one of these cullets three years back on a flat sheet chip and it did similar things Jordan. Once I washed it, the problems went down.

The trouble there is that washing is yet one more step.
As to the burner, I like secondary air around Dudley's heads. It keeps them a lot cooler. I do not pack mine ever.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 04-02-2019, 09:02 PM
Dennis Walker Dennis Walker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Springfield, OH
Posts: 2
Dennis Walker is on a distinguished road
My impression from Oceanside is the Flakes are temporary and won't be available when the nugget making equipment is up. Flakes are for those customers who are out of nuggets right now, and will take anything that can get. The sample was just to show they're almost there, with nuggets coming in weeks. They didn't want to give dates, or even take orders at the conference.

I ran 500# of the original Studio nuggets before the switch to the New Formula, and started to get a yellow buildup around the top of the furnace door and pitting below the buildup. And a similar, much smaller build up on the top front of my glory hole and doors. The yellow buildup has mostly worn away and no new buildup since using the New Formula.

Last edited by Dennis Walker; 04-02-2019 at 09:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:26 AM
Pete VanderLaan's Avatar
Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
The Old Gaffer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chocorua New Hampshire
Posts: 20,956
Pete VanderLaan is on a distinguished road
I think this is becoming a "Don't watch what they say, watch what they do."

That's for the lot of them.
__________________
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:56 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 131
Shawn Everette is on a distinguished road
I don't think the Dragons are terrible at all, they look like great little machines. I haven't gotten to try one yet, and have only heard good reviews. If I was in a different set up that mini lehr attachment seems fantastic. Every place I've worked for wanted a mobile unit, and this seems like one of the best solutions.

Personally I'm better off with a dedicated glory, when I'm in fast production mode the frit tends to be a little jumpy. If I had a combo I guess I could just sell the end of day stuff as special edition "calcedony" and charge more for it.

I'd imagine anyone with a top mount burner is going to have issues with this glass, if you watch the boric trail it always leads up. The articulated door on the 60lb Dragon almost looks like it closes fully, so that may have exacerbated things in this case, especially if it was packed with frax.

The Stadleman's were a great design, but yes, the major flaw was having to pull the crucible from the top. That was not a fun task even when I had an articulating foundry wench. That and being sent with aluminum clamps for the molys. When we switched to copper that took care of a ton of issues.

Cullet wise, yes, it's been kind of a supply nightmare. I'm curious if people switching back to batch is going to create an equilibrium, or create a cullet glut.

I learned long ago, only pull enough cane that you have use for.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 AM.


All published comments within these message boards are the opinions of its contributor and does not represent
the opinion(s) of the owner(s) of this website. Please see the Terms of Use file for more details.

Books to Help Artists Avoid Online Scams: Top 10 Email Scams | Social Media Scams

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CraftWEB.com. Opportunity Network. 2008. All Rights Reserved.