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Old 04-09-2019, 12:22 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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this damn controller

So, Dudley got us going on the auber controls for MB's kiln and it does this decimal dance that drives me nuts, so I replaced it with a LOVE 4B which claims 64 ramp and soak features. I prepped it for a type K thermocouple and had to set the upper range ans well as ramps for the fuse program MB wants and we could not get it above the value 999.9. We spent a lot of time on this and today talked to a tech at Dwyer who said it should go above that but it won't and then floored us saying the tool only did ramp and soak in that you set a temp point and it jammed up there- no ramp. Then you did the next the same way.

This in my mind is not a "Ramp" and couldn't function in a process controller but now they've gone off in a corner to discuss it. I'm reinstalling the Auber which I still hate.

I admit these things are not expensive but the bottom fell out of this type market years ago. The 16A which I run on four different tools are on the other hand quite expensive at $350 each.
Now I'm not going to do a digitry since these tools are in two different parts of the building and I'm not looking for long term solutions at this stage in my life. I hope to run the studio another three or possibly four years and then to stop. I like having my hand in glass but not in a balls to the walls type marketing approach.

I suppose I'm not looking for advice but I did want to vent. ****ing Dwyer.
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Old 04-09-2019, 02:23 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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If relying on solid state controls isn't a requirement you can get a Bartlett 3k for $200. They're pretty durable, and the interface isn't as awful.
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Old 04-09-2019, 03:56 PM
Patrick Casanova Patrick Casanova is offline
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Controller

Pete,
I had been suing a Watlo 8CLS for 20 years and loved them. Two years ago when my last one died I moved to individual controllers on each oven. For me having one controller for all my ovens only worked when I had a backup on the shelve. With out it, when it went down I was dead in the water. With advice from the board I moved to Solo and have been really pleased with them. I run them using their software. Originally from my laptop until my son hooked up a used point of sale touch screen. I don't even know how to program it using the up and down arrows on the unit. Everything is done on a big screen. Since my Watlo was 4-20mA I ordered the Solo with that output and continue to use the Watlo SSR's. They are a true Ramp Soak. Great tech support. And inexpensive $135. I got them through Automationdirect.com
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:24 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
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I've only been using eurotherm controller for a short time but so far i love it. It just makes sense to me. Really expensive new but can be found on ebay used and cheaper. But make sure you get the correct model code for what you need. I bought 2 from this guy and had them at my door in Michigan in 3 days. He also excepted $100 a unit including 3day international shipping

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F264081614600
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:30 PM
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Thanks Pat.
I've been alarmed at the failure rates on watlow units that Steve installed . I agree they have great tech support. I wish I could say that about Dwyer. It was really bad. The guy really demonstrate he didn't know what to do at all. Now I have two different ones but I'll get an RMA for both. They said they would email to us right away. They didn't . I'm reinstalling the auber in the morning for MB. What I'll do on the other one remains to be seen. At least I have the two big lehrs and only need one.
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:31 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Casanova View Post
Pete,
I had been suing a Watlo 8CLS for 20 years and loved them. Two years ago when my last one died I moved to individual controllers on each oven. For me having one controller for all my ovens only worked when I had a backup on the shelve. With out it, when it went down I was dead in the water. With advice from the board I moved to Solo and have been really pleased with them. I run them using their software. Originally from my laptop until my son hooked up a used point of sale touch screen. I don't even know how to program it using the up and down arrows on the unit. Everything is done on a big screen. Since my Watlo was 4-20mA I ordered the Solo with that output and continue to use the Watlo SSR's. They are a true Ramp Soak. Great tech support. And inexpensive $135. I got them through Automationdirect.com
****
I have to assume you meant using...
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:33 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
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Hey Pete I have a dwyer love 16B controller that was in use for about 1 year. I'd be happy to gift it to you if its of use.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:30 PM
Art Freas Art Freas is offline
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Anyone using a Bartlett Genesis on their annealers? I am looking to go with them. More programs allowed and a simple visual interface to program, along with internet capable monitoring and tracking.
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Old 04-09-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Yamron View Post
Hey Pete I have a dwyer love 16B controller that was in use for about 1 year. I'd be happy to gift it to you if its of use.
******
Tell me about it's function. I need a controller that will hold set point at 935F and then drop into a program bringing the oven down over the next twelve hours. That 16B I have yet to have arrive. The 4B, according to the tecchs at Dwyer doesn't really do any of that and will not run above 999.0 F

I don't think the techs know what they are talking about at this point. Why on earth would it take a type R thermocouple if it could not run hotter than that. I need the 4B to run a simple program that goes from room temp to 1650F hold for 20 minutes and then ramps down to room temp in twelve hours with a crash between 2650F and 1000F. They say it can't do that. They claim a ramp is a straight run up from where ever you are to whatever set point you have as fast as it can and to then hold. That's not a ramp program in my mind.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:11 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
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Honestly, i don't know. I was running very simple programs. Up to 2350 and hold. Hold 2350 6 hours then down to 1900. Hold for 4 hours. Then up to 2100. I had it hooked up and struggled. The programming was confusing to me for some reason. Its been a few years since I was running it. I do remember feeling like i didn't have something set right because it never did exactly as I was expecting.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:19 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
******
Tell me about it's function. I need a controller that will hold set point at 935F and then drop into a program bringing the oven down over the next twelve hours. That 16B I have yet to have arrive. The 4B, according to the tecchs at Dwyer doesn't really do any of that and will not run above 999.0 F

I don't think the techs know what they are talking about at this point. Why on earth would it take a type R thermocouple if it could not run hotter than that. I need the 4B to run a simple program that goes from room temp to 1650F hold for 20 minutes and then ramps down to room temp in twelve hours with a crash between 2650F and 1000F. They say it can't do that. They claim a ramp is a straight run up from where ever you are to whatever set point you have as fast as it can and to then hold. That's not a ramp program in my mind.
I think 16b (mines a 16b-53) and 4b are the same controller just different sizes. I might be wrong though.

I'm using The eurotherm 2416 now. it can ramp by time (you set unit of time you want to use) or by rate (percentage I think).
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:21 PM
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But you never did conventional ramps ( like I want to go up 200F in two Hours) , or anything of that nature?
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Yamron View Post
Honestly, i don't know. I was running very simple programs. Up to 2350 and hold. Hold 2350 6 hours then down to 1900. Hold for 4 hours. Then up to 2100.
*******
When it went from 2350 and then down to 1900F, was that a crash or a ramp?
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:09 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
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Crash down to 1900.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:13 PM
Philip Yamron Philip Yamron is offline
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Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
But you never did conventional ramps ( like I want to go up 200F in two Hours) , or anything of that nature?

I did try to do a slow ramp on initial startup. Slowly heat crucible. I remember that it went up much faster then I thought I programmed it for. Assumed I did something wrong in programming it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:35 AM
Patrick Casanova Patrick Casanova is offline
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The Solo will do that... and it will graph that out so you can visually confirm that it is going to do what you intend.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:48 PM
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Dwyer neither called or emailed back. We gave up on it
I went back to the Auber at Mary Beth's plea and I could not get it wired right. Ultimately, I put the two relays under a single switch and she ran the program by hand with a single SPST switch running the show and it worked. I'll get it right under less pressure.

On the other Dwyer 16A, I dug in with a multi meter and established it wasn't the controller, it was the MDR solenoid that was failing and the meter made it easy to see. I replaced the MDR. It works fine and that controller enters its 28th year. Now How to dispose of the MDR.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:55 AM
Rick Kellner Rick Kellner is offline
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Got an aquifer nearby???
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:30 AM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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Listen. You instal one of these and Ruby the farm collie can even use it.

http://www.digitry.com/vanessa
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:03 PM
Michael Mortara Michael Mortara is offline
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Ron at Digitry gives the best tech support around, he saved our butt just this week. I am half farm collie and can program these with my two back paws.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:06 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I've heard that both ways. I recall people losing their systems, or part of them and having no phone answer there for extended periods of time. That being said, I certainly can't give rave reviews at Dwyer. Watlow always seemed to gave good tech but I had long thought that the controllers had way more bells and whistles than they needed. Particularly true of the SCR's

The one annealer had a failed MDR on analysis so it is continuing its 25-30 year run as the 16A. MB's going back to the Auber which drives me bullshit. For today and tomorrow, we moved the MDR on to two toggles and will fly on red alert for the time being.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:28 PM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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They are great system in general, until they're not. Most of the ones I've used have had at least a decade of service. The thing that goes wiggy most often is the sending units, but at least they yell at you when they know something is wrong. When they do actually fail all hell breaks loose cause you now have no kilns. They're pretty good on getting you a loaner while they repair yours, but that's still lost time. They've also got some neat bells and whistles available, but the power share option is kind of useless unless you have ridiculously insulated kilns.

The main concern I have about them is what happens when they decide they don't want to make them anymore? I can wire a kiln fine, but circuit board work is not in my wheelhouse.
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:54 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Everette View Post
They are great system in general, until they're not. Most of the ones I've used have had at least a decade of service. The thing that goes wiggy most often is the sending units, but at least they yell at you when they know something is wrong. When they do actually fail all hell breaks loose cause you now have no kilns. They're pretty good on getting you a loaner while they repair yours, but that's still lost time. They've also got some neat bells and whistles available, but the power share option is kind of useless unless you have ridiculously insulated kilns.

The main concern I have about them is what happens when they decide they don't want to make them anymore? I can wire a kiln fine, but circuit board work is not in my wheelhouse.
There’s no sending unit on the Vanessa
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:49 AM
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the link you provided will not take you to price. Do you know what it costs?
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:14 AM
Shawn Everette Shawn Everette is offline
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talking about gb4/5, have yet to use a vanessa. Having gone through plenty of smart phones, there is some hesitation with buying any equipment that has a touchpad.
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