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Old 07-10-2018, 09:59 PM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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that pesky shortage

So, I received information yesterday that OCR is out of Cristallica? I would like to have that confirmed by anyone. I also understand that SP is out as well.
Currently, the demand in the USA is still 11 tons per day including everyone using cullet. Dobern has a current furnace designed to produce 5 tons per day but will get pushed to make more (7?) which in my experience will mean it makes less high quality glass. Field reports will verify if QC will be an issue. If cullet is indeed made elsewhere, it's unlikely that a site making more than 2 tons per day will pop up and again, QC is key.This doesn't begin to consider the quantity being used in Europe on top of the American demand. How do you lower demand? Raise the Price...

It does keep the consideration of using any of the commercial batches in mind as we go into the fall when Schools throw their weight around ordering cullet. GLASMA , East Bay and SP 87 start looking not just cheap, but just available.

So the next person suggesting making your own is foolish, or melting commercial batch as kind of dumb, well learn to whistle. It likely will be a long fall.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:54 AM
Dave Bross Dave Bross is offline
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Yup, and we'll be here to pull you out before you hit the asphalt if you're smart enough to ask...and actually try it.

Those new EU rules on chemicals that make color should get interesting soon too.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:28 PM
David Blankenstyn David Blankenstyn is offline
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This is getting ridiculous
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:55 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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It will be interesting to see the response of educational institutions if it requires that they start melting their own batch and cullet is no longer an option. I fore see that there may be some changes in store for some of these places.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:57 PM
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I don't see the REACH terms stopping the making of clear at all and currently the EU decision really is inclusive of just Arsenic, but the camel's nose is clearly under the tent on chromophores in general.

The problem with boutique cullet is different and it is that there isn't actually any money in doing it currently. If there was you would see upstarts all over setting up one ton melters to make and sell cullet and that is not happening. Oceanside could be making cullet in Tijuana. They aren't. Every one in this country that has tried to make and sell the stuff at a profit has hit trouble. It's not just making it, it's distributing it as well and keeping the engineering specs tight enough. When Cristalica goes from a monitored 5 ton melt per day to a 7 ton melt per 24 hours, I'm fairly sure there are going to be QC issues that glassblowers are going to notice right away. That was clear to me six months back when the demand was going to be unable to be met by supply. Farming out manufacturing is going to be a QC loss of control as well, that I'm also sure of. Making glass right requires care and patience.

Will this lead back to using batch from one of the Stateside or European mixing groups? For some, yes but for schools it will become a school policy issue I'm betting. They like cullet because it's simple and makes the lives of their shop techs easier. It has been a long time since they wanted to make glass from raw materials to make doing it a teachable experience. Karl Platt said it best. "The schools want glass from a toothpaste tube". I think the studios do too actually. If that is to really be supplied, it will be expensive, as in $1.55 to 1.75 lb. I think the calcedonia I make runs $55.00 kg. I would not make and sell it for less. When I make black at $63KG it sells out as fast as I announce the run. I wouldn't make it for less. The irritating reality is that glass is far better worked from pots than from rods.

But if the schools were forced to go back to batch, I'm not sure how the administrations will react to all that dust and stuff. Not sure at all.

but, right now, I understand that the shortage is on, just a bit later than I thought. I imagine there has been some hoarding so it still has to develop into a major issue. I can still buy all the chemicals to make clear at quite the tolerable price. Some of the colorants are becoming expensive though but that will all get passed on to users I imagine.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:59 PM
Eben Horton Eben Horton is online now
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There is a 1 and a half week backorder on Spruce pine batch. I just ordered a ton.

I dont call that a shortage.

Yawn........
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:41 AM
Andreea Virag Andreea Virag is offline
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Cristalica production info from Cristalica :)

Dear Pete,
Dear Craftweb members,

As some of you might now, I work at Cristalica, so I can tell you first hand that there is no shortage in sight. Quite the contrary, we are indeed ramping up to meet each and everyones demands. 😊
Quality control is of course not neglected and very important to us we are taking our time to ensure that the glass is as brilliant as ever.
In order to not get caught up in rumours or suppositions, we invite anyone interested in the glass we produce to please kindly contact our exclusive distributors, i.e. Olympic Color Rods and Spruce Pine Batch for the US and Kuta Glassworks for Canada.
They have the best overview on prices locally, lead times and experiences so far of other customers and are always happy to answer your questions. Also, Olympic and our colleagues from Reichenbach have visited the factory quite recently, so can give a realtime assessment on how we are meeting demand and not pushing aside quality. We like to work transparently with the glass scene, for the glass scene, so questions are welcome.
Moreover, we are also planning for the future, i.e, planning for a new furnace as replacement for when the current one will have lived out its production cycle. More on that always from our partners which are the best information source - as we move forward, excited for the future. 😉

Hope this provides a bit of clarity.
Thank you and happy melting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete VanderLaan View Post
So, I received information yesterday that OCR is out of Cristallica? I would like to have that confirmed by anyone. I also understand that SP is out as well.
Currently, the demand in the USA is still 11 tons per day including everyone using cullet. Dobern has a current furnace designed to produce 5 tons per day but will get pushed to make more (7?) which in my experience will mean it makes less high quality glass. Field reports will verify if QC will be an issue. If cullet is indeed made elsewhere, it's unlikely that a site making more than 2 tons per day will pop up and again, QC is key.This doesn't begin to consider the quantity being used in Europe on top of the American demand. How do you lower demand? Raise the Price...

It does keep the consideration of using any of the commercial batches in mind as we go into the fall when Schools throw their weight around ordering cullet. GLASMA , East Bay and SP 87 start looking not just cheap, but just available.

So the next person suggesting making your own is foolish, or melting commercial batch as kind of dumb, well learn to whistle. It likely will be a long fall.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:58 PM
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and we will see what we will see.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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Thank you Andrea for your encouraging reply.
With all the doom and gloom postings on this thread, it is nice to hear some thing positive from the source.
Here, up in Canada, we tend to be a bit more positive than it seems our neighbours south of the border are...so again we thank you for at least a small reprieve from "the end of glassblowing as we know it" scenario ..

This will all, most likely, eventually, be blamed on President Trump, and Russsian collusion, meddling in the supply of world wide clear cullet manufacturing, which can only be saved by massive influxes of laundered money from the Clinton foundation, and the supreme intervention of the saviour of the people...Hilory

Happy Friday the 13th folks, keep yer heads down and yer powder dry...
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:48 PM
Steve Stadelman Steve Stadelman is offline
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hmmmmmmm.........I am moving to a part of Oregon where electricity is a mere nickel per KWH........train tracks too.....
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:02 PM
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Currently Spruce Pine is four weeks behind on batch. I just ordered one ton of my mix with Sept delivery.
Currently Spruce Pine is out of Cristalica and the next container is sold. Phil can't keep up with demand and the reaction to it has not been good. The pacific NW hates it. This isn't me speculating.
Demand is exceeding supply at 11 tons per day but there aren't people in love with the goop. There are moves all over the globe to replace it with a better product. That is way harder than it might appear but it will happen. Cristalica could change the formula, but it won't do it. Crisis is coming unless you have some brains.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:21 AM
Andreea Virag Andreea Virag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Gary Parkes View Post
Thank you Andrea for your encouraging reply.
With all the doom and gloom postings on this thread, it is nice to hear some thing positive from the source.
Here, up in Canada, we tend to be a bit more positive than it seems our neighbours south of the border are...so again we thank you for at least a small reprieve from "the end of glassblowing as we know it" scenario ..

This will all, most likely, eventually, be blamed on President Trump, and Russsian collusion, meddling in the supply of world wide clear cullet manufacturing, which can only be saved by massive influxes of laundered money from the Clinton foundation, and the supreme intervention of the saviour of the people...Hilory

Happy Friday the 13th folks, keep yer heads down and yer powder dry...
Hiya Robert,

Thank you for the nice message. We know things are a bit tense now with delays, but we are sure we'll get through this together. Thanks for your positive outlook and hope you like your glass!

Oh, and I think it's safe to say that "the end of glassblowing as we know it" has been cancelled.
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Old 10-29-2018, 09:25 PM
Tom Fuhrman Tom Fuhrman is offline
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Durk, what happened to all the equipment at the old Crystalex factory? They had an amazing machine for goblet production where the stem and base were pressed and then attached hot to blown tops. They also had an amazing amount of cold working and engraving equipment and engravers/cutters.
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Old 10-30-2018, 04:33 AM
Durk Valkema Durk Valkema is offline
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The Cristalex factory still stands, have not been inside it but was told it is all cold and other smaller factories produce under the trade name.
The whole point with continues melting is in the word continues, any change in flow/melt rate spells havoc. Let alone changing chemistry.
You mistake it with the initial Kuchinsky project where they did a cullet run in a fiber glass tank, it took weeks to adjust for the other glass, and back.
The tanks in question melt a barium zinc glass for manual production, like the stuben melter in the good old days. Capable of producing 12 ton over the weekend, I know the owner and he knows what he is doing, also on glass chemistry they know there turf.
So the glass will be pristine quality, no shortcuts.
Like in the last year or two when the Orrefors tank was still melting, producing pristine nuggets, sold through Glasma.
Sadly this factory was totally stripped and is a warehouse for an internet company.
The rumor goes that Chri has increased the cullet to the batch ratio to increase pull, using window glass, so the giant stone is probably refractory.
We melted the stuff last week and it looked blue/green but it worked OK.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:22 AM
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Pete VanderLaan Pete VanderLaan is offline
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I have to question the Ba/Zn stuff on a rather different level and that's American refractories which at studio level are almost all Alumina. My impression has always been that if Ba reaches anywhere near 3% in that environment that there will be real corrosion. I tend to believe that can occur with the cullet as well. GLASMA can certainly throw stones from its batch if it gets too hot and that's not very hot. Otherwise a beautiful glass.

I'll believe this one when I see it in service but there's a lot of moving parts right now that can really screw up. The operators in the US are not as skilled as a group as they once were.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:39 PM
Josh Bernbaum Josh Bernbaum is offline
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I had no idea Gabbert were still in business, but just looked up their website and there is one. They list the FHC clear as an option still, and claim they have lots left. I use batch, but curious if others in the midst of the latest Cullet Wars know that might be an option. I'm thinking for schools mainly. We used the 4C when I was at MassArt a long time ago and it was dog shit but it was hot glass nonetheless. And I think I remember using the FHC at Haystack which seemed like a slightly better quality and workable glass. No doubt either are a bit off of 96 LEC. Anyone know if any schools still use a Gabbert cullet? I've only heard of some schools who were using a lot of the Spectrum stuff before it went the way of the Dodo.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bernbaum View Post
I had no idea Gabbert were still in business, but just looked up their website and there is one. They list the FHC clear as an option still, and claim they have lots left. I use batch, but curious if others in the midst of the latest Cullet Wars know that might be an option. I'm thinking for schools mainly. We used the 4C when I was at MassArt a long time ago and it was dog shit but it was hot glass nonetheless. And I think I remember using the FHC at Haystack which seemed like a slightly better quality and workable glass. No doubt either are a bit off of 96 LEC. Anyone know if any schools still use a Gabbert cullet? I've only heard of some schools who were using a lot of the Spectrum stuff before it went the way of the Dodo.
Gabbert might have some clear cullet but I doubt they have any of fhc. You would have to call. The web site hasn't been updated in many years. I pretty much stocked up on the stuff I could use after Fenton shut down. My guess is they have a bunch of the huge chunks from when they would empty the furnaces. The pressed ware and stem ware was the nicest of the lot.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:51 PM
Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is online now
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Maybe Im reading this out of context , Pete, but what do you mean by Glasma batch throwing stones?
I used to melt Glasma #5 a 5% lead batch at 1440C a long time ago in clay pots, because well thats what we did.
When I went to using your EC pots, if I remember correctly using Glasma #33 a barium glass,
turned the pot of glass into a Colorado snowstorm of stones if going above 1330C, which was right about where it was difficult to fine out 200 kg of glass overnight. The stones didn't come from the batch, though, the batch dissolved the EC pot above that temperature
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